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Sunday River 2019/2020

MissySki

Angel Diva
The snow up here is great right now, had a great time today! Lots of snow blowing happening as well, so I think we can expect a lot more terrain to open soon.

Also, anyone looking for a demo day, there’s one here tomorrow! :wink:
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I finally got a chance to listen to this on my commute this morning. I wanted to comment on it when it was fresh in my mind. A few points for conversation:

- Being a family owned business, I think they've done a pretty awesome job as a whole. I like that they're kind of doing their own thing, especially how he talks about each mountain keeping their individual feel and character.

I agree. I admittedly don't know much about the Boyne history, and it was cool to get a glimpse into it. I appreciate that each of the Boyne resorts I've been to so far have their own unique identity, I wouldn't want to have the same exact vibe and experience at each mountain.

- It was interesting how Kircher spun the Max Pass to IKON move. Definitely spun it as a really good move. As a New England Pass holder, I'd argue the opposite. You could previously add on the Max Pass for under $300. Now the IKON is at least doubling the cost of that (base pass, bought early season). So I can see how this may be a good thing for the company, and getting new people to their mountain, it's a step backwards for their regular customer base.

Yeah, I wish Stuart had dug more into this personally. I would have loved a follow up question something like, "how has the feedback been from your passholders on this change?". I felt that Kircher quickly glossed over the topic stating that unlimited passholders have always had benefits at other Boyne resorts and still do etc. I'd also like to know why some mountains were cut out, like Wachusett. Wachusett passholders still get some benefits at Sunday river for example, but we don't get them there.. Not a huge deal to most people I guess, but since it's a mountain 45 minutes away from me, I'd love to have back the days we used to get with the Maxx pass there.

- They discussed Vail's moves into the New England market, as far as buying Peak Resorts. This was an interesting one...Kircher says that in other areas this was good for Boyne. (I think he specifically talked about Vancouver and Utah). I'm looking forward to seeing where this one goes. Especially with Wildcat and Attitash being so close to Sunday River.

Did you take this to mean that people started leaving those places to go to a non-Vail resort since some people really hate the Vail tag, or that it brings more people into the area in general and that may carryover to their mountains perhaps? I was intrigued by his statement as well, but not sure how to take it exactly. I also wondered during this part if he was alluding to the Sugarbush purchase by Alterra as being a move in the East to counter the expansion of Vail here as I don't think that was public yet when they recorded the show.

- I really liked how he talked about snowmaking being a priority in their business. I've always known that Sunday River has really prioritized snowmaking, but really good to know that this philosophy stems from the top down.

Yes, and the commitment to having the best equipment so they can be more strategic in when to blow for optimum quality of snow. Have you been feeling this season like Sunday River is letting their blown snow rest/drain longer before grooming it out? I'm not sure if I'm just off on my timing feelings right now because I'm just getting back to being up there more often, or if the approach has changed a little. Wondering if perhaps that is purposeful to get the least wet product possible once groomed out so everything has had a longer chance to drain?

I've also never been intrigued by say Boyne Resort itself, but they sure were talking up the snow quality there due to the equipment and philosophy of snowmaking they use. He said he'd put it against any snow in the country I believe? That was interesting!

- Kircher discussed solidifying summer operations, and their expansion to own the Sunday River golf course. What I found interesting is that they actually stopped their mountain biking and zip line operations this past summer...so doesn't really seem like their putting their money where their mouth is on this one.

I was wondering if any other ideas are coming for this topic..

- Lastly I wanted to comment on his discussion of lift upgrades being their next large venture across their mountains. Personally, I'd rather ride a slow quad and decrease the downhill crowds than ride an 8 pack with no lines and double the amount about people on the trails. I get where he's coming from on this one, but his comment that "quads are going away", scares me a bit on what they'll be trying to implement. I'm trying to stay optimistic since Sunday River's lift system is definitely in need of some upgrades, but I don't think more 6 and 8 packs are the answer.

Yeah, this one definitely caught my attention as well! Makes it feel like the "rumors" of an 8 pack going to Loon is definitely more fact than fiction, and still think that is absurd. A 6 pack there maybe, but 8 seems ridiculous for that spot to me. As for Sunday River, we saw the effects of a 6 person lift this past weekend with the Chondola and limited terrain open. What a sh*# show it was on the one trail open from that lift due to the huge uphill capacity being brought to it. Obviously it's different when more terrain is open there, but when I think of other spots at Sunday River in need of an upgrade it does not make me feel great to also think they'd be upping the number of people on the trails that much at the same time. I'd much rather wait in line longer or get in a singles line and enjoy the down more than racing back up on a larger chair only to have the ski down filled with anxiety because there is literally no place to escape a huge crowd of people with you on the trail.. Plus, somewhere like Loon is much more crowded n weekends due to the proximity to Boston, but do we really need such high uphill capacity at Sunday River or Sugarloaf that are so far away from large population centers??
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
I've also never been intrigued by say Boyne Resort itself, but they sure were talking up the snow quality there due to the equipment and philosophy of snowmaking they use. He said he'd put it against any snow in the country I believe? That was interesting!

I've not listened to the podcast, but was he referrring to the snow at Boyne here in Michigan?
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I've also never been intrigued by say Boyne Resort itself, but they sure were talking up the snow quality there due to the equipment and philosophy of snowmaking they use. He said he'd put it against any snow in the country I believe? That was interesting!

I've not listened to the podcast, but was he referrring to the snow at Boyne here in Michigan?

Yeah, he said that Boyne essentially eliminated boilerplate in the mid-west due to the guns and strategy they use (more efficient guns that allow them to wait until lower more ideal temperatures are met before blowing, and having the capacity to blow just as much in that shorter window than if they went at higher temps and blew lesser quality snow that results in boilerplate when it sets up. He was all about keeping the snow dry. Though I was then like well what about warm ups and rain that we always have during the season at some point? Maybe as long as it doesn’t penetrate as much it doesn’t matter since we continually groom the upper layer anyway..?), and that their goal is to do the same in the Northeast. The person doing the podcast seemed to indicate the same about the snow being so great when he was out there at some point visiting family.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
OK, well, I'll pay attention this year, but I can tell you that so far in my skiing life here, my experience is that Nub's Nob, practically across the street from Boyne Highlands has far superior snow.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
Did you take this to mean that people started leaving those places to go to a non-Vail resort since some people really hate the Vail tag, or that it brings more people into the area in general and that may carryover to their mountains perhaps? I was intrigued by his statement as well, but not sure how to take it exactly. I also wondered during this part if he was alluding to the Sugarbush purchase by Alterra as being a move in the East to counter the expansion of Vail here as I don't think that was public yet when they recorded the show.

I took this as people were leaving certain mountains because they didn't want to be part of a Vail resort, or that Vail is attracting so many more people that locals are choosing other local mountains so they're not overrun by tourists and crowds. But not sure, it was a little vague on how Vail's expansion was helping Boyne (seemed to be a bit of a sales pitch/P.C. response to me).
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
OK, well, I'll pay attention this year, but I can tell you that so far in my skiing life here, my experience is that Nub's Nob, practically across the street from Boyne Highlands has far superior snow.

I was kind of skeptical, but also feel that we already have quite good snowmaking here too.. I think it stands up great compared to many places, but that you certainly still get boilerplate at times like everywhere else based on the weather patterns. I’d be interested in how you would feel Boyne Highlands compares to Sunday River’s snow. Are you coming to diva east this season? :beer:
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
At the moment, no. Too far to drive. BUT, that said, we actually have made no travel plans yet and the date does work, I think.

I’m really slacking in the planning department this year.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
At the moment, no. Too far to drive. BUT, that said, we actually have made no travel plans yet and the date does work, I think.

I’m really slacking in the planning department this year.

COME!!!
 

lisamamot

Angel Diva
I looked - it IS closer than I thought. But still 14 hours!
Ooph that is a hike. Would love to see you again if you can make it though!
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
Maybe we fly part of the way . . . I really have to get on the ball with making plans. Gotta make sure to get the IKON cost down to @ $60/day!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Didn't realize how little snow Sunday River gets. I usually only look at snowfall history for destination resorts out west. No wonder investing in snowmaking is so important. I've only skied SR during early season. Boyne Resorts does a good job getting open for Thanksgiving on a regular basis.

OpenShow snowfall history for Sunday River
Screen Shot 2020-01-28 at 10.26.46 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-01-28 at 10.29.22 AM.png
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Didn't realize how little snow Sunday River gets. I usually only look at snowfall history for destination resorts out west. No wonder investing in snowmaking is so important. I've only skied SR during early season. Boyne Resorts does a good job getting open for Thanksgiving on a regular basis.

OpenShow snowfall history for Sunday River
View attachment 11944
View attachment 11945


The January 2020 calendar you posted isn’t accurate.. we just got 16-18 inches the week before last!! Lol. It varies year to year like everywhere though, but yes we are great at making our own winter at different points each season. We also usually open by Halloween, not Thanksgiving. This year was super late for us and it was still only November 9!! :thumbsup:
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
The January 2020 calendar you posted isn’t accurate.. we just got 16-18 inches the week before last!! Lol. It varies year to year like everywhere though, but yes we are great at making our own winter at different points each season. We also usually open by Halloween, not Thanksgiving. This year was super late for us and it was still only November 9!! :thumbsup:
Hmm, must be something wrong with the automatic feed that OpenSnow uses. Except for Alta, I don't look at a local source for historical snowfall data. The only time I skied SR right after Thanksgiving there were only 4 trails open and you had to ride in a gondola cabin to reach any snow because they couldn't make enough snow at the base to allow loading of the chairs on the chondola. So after that I pushed any trip to SR into mid-Dec.

In any case, snowfall in the northeast that's over a few inches is less common than in the Rockies. I haven't skied north of Boston often enough to bother to pay attention. Read more about complaints due to freezing rain than about powder days for New England skiing.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Hmm, must be something wrong with the automatic feed that OpenSnow uses. Except for Alta, I don't look at a local source for historical snowfall data. The only time I skied SR right after Thanksgiving there were only 4 trails open and you had to ride in a gondola cabin to reach any snow because they couldn't make enough snow at the base to allow loading of the chairs on the chondola. So after that I pushed any trip to SR into mid-Dec.

In any case, snowfall in the northeast that's over a few inches is less common than in the Rockies. I haven't skied north of Boston often enough to bother to pay attention. Read more about complaints due to freezing rain than about powder days for New England skiing.

Yeah we often get smaller storms, but I was lucky enough to ski in 8 inches of super liggt fluff the Sunday of MLK weekend. It was great!!!
 

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