Sugarbush, Killington vs Whiteface, Gore, Jay? For intermediates driving to/from Tremblant

[marzNC]

With Tremblant on the Ikon pass, there will be families and intermediates making the drive from the U.S. this winter. I can't fit in a drive to Québec into my schedule but do have the Ikon pass. Got me wondering what would be a good ski safari that includes Tremblant. I would like to get back there when all of the mountain is open. Sugarbush, Killington, and Stratton are on Ikon. Jay Peak, Whiteface, and Gore are not.

For those who have skied these mountains, what would you suggest? For those who might do such a safari, any questions? Let's assume a car is going to include at least one adult intermediate, the safari will include at least two other locations besides Tremblant, and most of the skiing will be mid-week.

* Is one ski day enough at these locations, or better to plan on 2-3 days? If so, which place?
* What month would be better?
* What lodging options would you recommend?
* Is 4WD/AWD required?

 

[marzNC]

* Is 4WD/AWD required?

Although I've skied a day at Sugarbush, Gore, and Killington, and know Whiteface a bit, I have a stronger opinion about what to drive. Having driven my North Carolina minivan in the northeast in the winter, if I had a choice then I would rather have an SUV with snow tires. The Northway aka I-87 and the roads into Lake Placid are cleared pretty well. But if it's snowing, still better to have a winter-worthy vehicle.

In general, for an intermediate there are advantages to spending more than one day at a mountain with a variety of blue and easy black terrain. Can spend time getting to know the trails on the first day. Then be more relaxed on the second. Also means there is a better chance of having a good day weatherwise.

 

[ski diva]

Just from a traveling standpoint, I think Whiteface, Gore, and Jay are better options if you're on your way to Tremblant -- at least Whiteface and Gore are right on the way. Jay is a bit off the beaten path, but still, right on the border. Killington and Sugarbush are okay, but if the weather is bad, travel could be challenging. If I were you, I'd do the the former. You could easily spend a couple days at Jay or Whiteface.

 

[Tvan]

@marzNC - since we are going to Diva East at Tremblant, we’v been having this discussion about where to ski on the way home. We are thinking Whiteface and Gore because as @ski diva says, they are right on the way and relatively easy to get to. We got the empire ski3 pass in addition to Ikon, since we know we’ll ski Belleayer this year, as well as Stratton and Tremblant.

 

[marzNC]

@marzNC - since we are going to Diva East at Tremblant, we’v been having this discussion about where to ski on the way home. We are thinking Whiteface and Gore because as @ski diva says, they are right on the way and relatively easy to get to. We got the empire ski3 pass in addition to Ikon, since we know we’ll ski Belleayer this year, as well as Stratton and Tremblant.

With the Ski3 pass, makes more sense to explore Whiteface and Gore on the way back from Tremblant in March. Especially if can meet up with local Divas. Since Easter is late this year, the week of March 18 isn't really a spring break week so even on the weekend might not be too crowded. Could make a reservation for a couple nights in Lake Placid. Then decide the week before whether to ski Whiteface for two days or only one and then check out Gore on the way south. Just over an hour from Lake Placid and mostly on I-87.

When on a ski safari I always prefer to stay in a room for two nights if possible, even if that means driving a few hours after a day of skiing or getting up early to drive early in the morning.

Do you think an intermediate who has never been to Stratton and has Ikon should plan on one or two days? Besides the resort lodging, where else is there to stay nearby?

 

[Tvan]

@marzNC - I would plan two days for Stratton, especially if mid-week. There are places to stay off-resort in Manchester (including many Inns and B&Bs, and a new Hampton Inn) and and along Route 30 there is the classic Bromley View Inn. We’ve stayed at the Inn at Ormsby Hill off season, which was lovely and very expensive. I can’t speak to other places, having only stayed on-resort during ski season. Lots of restaurants in Manchester and along Route 100, plus the excellent on-resort restaurants. We like Mulligans, The Fire Tower, and Verdé.

 

[marzNC]

I would plan two days for Stratton, especially if mid-week. . . .

Helpful!

Lodging is the weak point for Gore if not doing a day trip from Lake Placid. A couple places in North Creek, which is a short drive. Don't know much about the Gore Mountain Lodge. There are a few motels and restaurants in Warrensburg. More options in Lake George but not for eating in early December. A lot of restaurants take a break before the winter season starts up with the holiday weeks.

Oscar's Smokehouse in Warrensburg is worth a stop, even if only driving by on I-87. There are people who pick up a turkey to take home to Florida for the holidays. The homemade jerky is very good. Also have homemade cheeses.

 

[2ski2moro]

If anyone wants a personalized tour of Gore on the way back from Mt. Tremblant, PM me. Or any other time.

MarzNC is correct about limited lodging in North Creek. If you cannot find lodging in Lake George, there are several possibilities in Glens Falls or Queensbury or Saratoga Springs within a 45 minute drive.

I can promise you that if you ski Gore on a non-holiday weekday, there will NEVER be a lift line. The downside is that occasionally, they will close off a pod during the week, but there is always a lot to ski with no crowds whatsoever.

 

[nopoleskier]

Gore lodging: I've stayed at the Black Mt Lodge. Is close to Access Rd. close, owner used to work at Gore, has attached restaurant. Modest but clean, warm rooms, free wi-fi. plenty of hot h20.

I am a GORE refugee- due to the usual late opening, the crappy grooming, closed trails, cross fall lines. LOTS Of walking and flat run offs to get around the mt. I'd rather drive up to Whiteface or to VT it is better skiing- I had a season pass at Gore from 1965-1997- I still do go a couple of times/yr to see if it's improved. Sorry Gore Fans, to me it hasn't, they do have a new manager so maybe this year will be better.

 

[marzNC]

I am a GORE refugee- due to the usual late opening, the crappy grooming, closed trails, cross fall lines. LOTS Of walking and flat run offs to get around the mt. I'd rather drive up to Whiteface or to VT it is better skiing- I had a season pass at Gore from 1965-1997- I still do go a couple of times/yr to see if it's improved. Sorry Gore Fans, to me it hasn't, they do have a new manager so maybe this year will be better.

I understand about the long flats between pods, but remember we are thinking about intermediates who don't ski at your normal speed on groomers. You are a great ski buddy but haven't been an intermediate in a long time. I have very clear memories as an adult skier wishing I could go explore black trails but knew that sticking to blues made far more sense.

When I spent a day with @2ski2moro exploring Gore, we would do a few runs in each pod before moving on to a different one. Each area had it's own fun parts from the standpoint of an intermediate who is looking for blues and easy blacks, not steeps or bumps. I also had a good time at Gore one day with DD on the way up to Lake Placid after winter break one year when she was in school there. Can't remember which pod we settled on but seems like we lapped it 3-4 times before heading to the mid-mountain lodge to warm up and have a snack or perhaps lunch.

My impression is that all the lodges have had major improvements completed in the last few years. For travelers who are intermediates, that makes a difference. Especially if the weather isn't the best so taking a break makes more sense more often.

Sometimes when traveling, I go into what I call "tourist mode." Meaning the day is a bit less about the skiing and a bit more about exploring a ski area/resort to see if I would like to go back in the future. I try to ride every lift, including beginner lifts. The views are of the rest of the mountain are often good from a beginner lift. In the case of Whiteface, Gore, Sugarbush, or Killington, I wouldn't have much interest in spending a full week. However, based on my experience I would consider 2-3 days in March. Reason I would be unlikely to ski those places in Jan or Feb is that it's likely to be cold and if not cold, then icy with little chance of enough sun to soften the snow for a few days. Those are the months I fly out west since that's an option for me.

 

[marzNC]

I'm a little surprised that I can't find any trip reports about Sugarbush. Will look at my pictures from the day I spent there in 2015 skiing solo and see what I can remember about the blue trails. Castle Rock is definitely not for cautious intermediates. There is good reason for the signs that say Experts Only. I only ventured to check that area out because it was a couple days after a midweek powder storm and all the bumps were still quite soft . . . for the northeast.

 

[2ski2moro]

I'm no Gore "Fan." Gore has problems, to be sure. The management can't really do anything about the Flats, but when people have me as a guide, I can lead them on the best way. Many mountains have traverses from one pod to another.

True, Gore closes pods often during the week, but it's more often the North Quad or Little Gore. I think Pine Knot didn't open at all last year and in 2015, the Dark Side remained closed, due to lack of snow.

I think that the grooming is much better than 10 years ago and definitely the snowmaking has improved.

Gore's big advantage is lack of crowds midweek. There is also a variety of runs for any skier. Sunway is a long Green. Twister is a good transition from Green to Blue. There are many intermediate runs. Echo, Sagamore and Open Pit can challenge an intermediate to move from blue to black. Glades and the upper mountain offers the best skiers a lot of fun.

I think it is worth a stop.

 

[marzNC]

@nopoleskier : what do you think about Killington after Sugarbush and Tremblant for intermediates and aspiring advanced skiers? Using Ikon midweek seems like it would be worth the drive. I've only skied the main blue off the K1 gondola and North Peak because that's all that was open the Monday before Thanksgiving last year.

 

[marzNC]

since we are going to Diva East at Tremblant, we’v been having this discussion about where to ski on the way home.

Diva East at Tremblant is in March, right? Since you and Mr. Tvan liked Belleayre, I think you would like Gore. Quite different from Stratton from what I've read. Gore is quite different from Whiteface. Whiteface is a tall mountain with lots of vertical for those willing to ski top to bottom. Gore is much more spread out.

When I was an advanced beginner/intermediate in middle school on straight skis, I think there were only a couple of ways down from the top that were possible. I can't ever figure out exactly where the lifts used to be back in the late 1960s. But I remember that being able to ski over the bridge non-stop and without turning was a big accomplishment.

 

[ski diva]

Sugarbush is actually one of my favorite eastern mountains. It has a nice vibe going on and it's beautiful. I love how the trails tend to wend around, too. There's a gorgeous blue trail called "Jester" that goes down from the top; lots of fun corkscrew turns.

I haven't decided yet where I'll stop on the way back from Tremblant. Probably Jay.

 

[Soujan]

I think an intermediate would have a better time skiing at Gore than Whiteface. When I was barely an intermediate and first went to Whifeface, I was scared out of my mind. But if you take into consideration off mountain activities, Gore has nothing around it. I went last year and stayed at the Inn at Gore Mountain. Very “rustic” place but it was cheap, just off the mountain and had an attached restaurant. Whiteface has Lake Placid which is a lot nicer. I’ve never been to Sugarbush. Stratton is a very intermediate friendly mountain and lodging is easy to find. I’m not a Killington fan because I don’t like how all the trails intersect. There’s so many people that don’t look where they are going. I much prefer Pico next door. 49er is still one of my favorite trails. Plus it’s a lot less crowded because most people will go to Killington. Lift lines are nonexistent on weekdays. Lots of bars and restaurants near Killington or if you want cheaper lodging you can stay 25 minutes away in Rutland. Pico was on the Max Pass but I know they are not specifically listed on the Ikon Pass. I’m assuming it’s included since Pico is included when you get a Killington lift ticket.

I went with the Epic Pass this time so I won’t be joining you ladies for Diva East this year. I went to Tremblant last year and I didn’t think it was worth the drive from NYC.

 

[Jilly]

I went with the Epic Pass this time so I won’t be joining you ladies for Diva East this year. I went to Tremblant last year and I didn’t think it was worth the drive from NYC.

I remember someone stating a couple of years ago that the Friday tour with the locals, was a different hill that Thursday's PR cruise!! eh @ski diva!!

 

[marzNC]

I’m not a Killington fan because I don’t like how all the trails intersect. There’s so many people that don’t look where they are going. I much prefer Pico next door. 49er is still one of my favorite trails. Plus it’s a lot less crowded because most people will go to Killington. Lift lines are nonexistent on weekdays. Lots of bars and restaurants near Killington or if you want cheaper lodging you can stay 25 minutes away in Rutland. Pico was on the Max Pass but I know they are not specifically listed on the Ikon Pass. I’m assuming it’s included since Pico is included when you get a Killington lift ticket.

Pico is definitely a fun little mountain. Includes some trees good for people starting to explore tree skiing. I remember reading explicitly when Killington was announced for Ikon that Pico is NOT included.

Pico has installed RFID for 2018-19.

 

[nopoleskier]

@marzNC Gore is nicknamed "chore" by the locals for a reason
IMO it is problematic for anyone with all the walking/skating across the many flats at Gore. Sure there are runs off each of the 'pods' but if you don't carry your speed you have to skate back over to the gondola from Sunway or even Showcase (My Dad named Showcase) If you ski down to Hawkeye lift (off the gondola) choice is a serious blue, more like a black trail to get there. ride the old slow triple to ski chatimac/hawkeye, (Short black trails) then you walk/skate around the old gondola house to get back over to Open Pit, Rumor, the cloud etc. When done w/that 'pod' it's a flat trail sometimes a walk/skate down to the old slow double lift back up to top of gondola, that was a XC trail (tannery) when I was a kid. Or you have to ski 'stinky hill' aka/Cloud with Great views but you have to tuck it to make over the flats back over to the saddle. Rarely have I ever made it from top of cloud to the saddle without skating and actual hiking, there are UPHILLS on that stretch!! Gore please Put a snow gun in there and level the trail out!! I can't imagine being a snowboarder at Gore! I think the flats are a bit much for all skiers, intermediates/beginners don't usually want to tuck trails and skate, skate skate, hiking on skis makes you hot and sweaty and then you get cold. Burnt Ridge has a couple nice trails you get one good run off Twister (from the saddle) but then its big time flats over to that lift and back to main, appropriate named, you get burnt. From the top of the gondola back to the main your choice is the corkscrew tight, steep trail to sunway/wild air or go around to the flats back to the saddle. UGH! Fairview aka Scareview is rarely open due to the north facing windblown icy conditions that frequent that trail. And midweek.. you'll only ski a portion of the MT. Much of the MT is always closed.

Gore is in the middle of no where, Glens falls is 40min on clear roads can be over and hour in snow.
As for lodge improvements, yes the saddle lodge was rebuilt it's still small, upstairs is usually closed off, it has same small assortment of food/drink offerings and bathrooms. yes it has nice views (wish they left the photo that identified the high peaks you see) The main lodge hasn't changed except they ripped up the duct-taped 'no slip' floor (thankfully after lots of people tripped and fell on that mess.) The 'new lodge' on top by Hawkeye is in the old gondola house it does have indoor bathrooms (pit style) they are an improvement over the outhouses, no food just a kuerig machine for $$ and vending machine. There are no lodges/bathrooms on burnt ridge or the north side (sleeping bear/etc- they rarely open that midweek anyways) so not much 'new'.

Rentals are still downstairs in main lodge at Gore, then you get to carry your skis/pole way over past the old gondola house uphill to a cross fall line hill to learn to ski. I'd be exhausted just dragging all the stuff over there to start the lesson.. There used to be 'gorey gulley" was easy to walk too, and a back hill right behind the rental shop, for beginners, but they got rid of that. I would never take someone to 'learn to ski there" it's a lot of work.

Why would an IKON holder go pay Gore 90+$ when they can go to Stratton (unlimited days) or Sugarbush 5/7days? Both are much better ski areas than Gore imo. Stratton has the 'village' if skiers tire can go shop/eat. The Sun Bowl at Stratton is beautiful green/blue terrain! Sugarbush is classic NE ski area, now joined w/Glen Ellen offers lots of terrain and is far enough off the beaten path was not busy on a powder day midweek when I went, I don't know about the town by Sugarbush but I'd go ski there FREE w/IKON before Gore.

If IKON pass holders want to pay for ticket on the way to Mt Tremblant via NYS, I'd still go to Whiteface- it "IS" the Olympic Mt. Yes, It is steep, and can easily scare anyone. The parking lot walk up to the lodge is a green trail at other Mts. The blues are blacks at other Mts. The Blue run Excelsior off the top of the Gondola is usually in pristine groomed condition and suitable for intermediates. Peron's run off the very top is Blue and the Wilmington Trail is fantastic blue trail. Skiing 3000+ Vertical a run, does tire skiiers out. But then you have a GREAT Town to go play in. All the olympic history and going to see (or ride) a bobsled, stand at the top of the ski jump, skate on the Olympic ice skating rink, If I was going to pay $90+ to ski either gore or WF. I'd take WF- Always less people since after 5-8 runs most people are done so rarely a lift line. Yes, it is COLD- but then Skiing is a cold weather sport.

Killington is so big, if you don't know your way around, you can spend half a day on green/trails/roads getting from one area to the next and it is usually crowded even mid-week.

If $$ isn't a problem, I'd stop at Okemo,ski then 1hr up to Sugarbush, then to Mt Tremblant. I am partial to Okemo, especially midweek we ski right on the lift and there is NO Walking anywhere. I became a "Gore refugee" when I found Okemo. Midweek pass is 1/2 the price of Gore and I get over 30K vertical (over 50K one day!!) vs maybe 10-15k at Gore- Okemo is a very Intermediate Mt. even the Blacks aren't scary. I can take someone from the Top of the south side all the way to Jackson gore on a green trail! Probably a 5 mile run! and NO walking!

Okemo opened today!! West Virginia will open before Gore does.. LOL, yeah I am a Gore Refugee my ire is also that I pay a lot in NYS Taxes and Gore could/should be so much better- free water from the Hudson, Free $$ for improvements and they always seem to muck it up.

 

[marzNC]

If IKON pass holders want to pay for ticket on the way to Mt Tremblant via NYS, I'd still go to Whiteface- it "IS" the Olympic Mt. Yes, It is steep, and can easily scare anyone. The parking lot walk up to the lodge is a green trail at other Mts. The blues are blacks at other Mts. The Blue run Excelsior off the top of the Gondola is usually in pristine groomed condition and suitable for intermediates. Peron's run off the very top is Blue and the Wilmington Trail is fantastic blue trail. Skiing 3000+ Vertical a run, does tire skiiers out. But then you have a GREAT Town to go play in. All the olympic history and going to see (or ride) a bobsled, stand at the top of the ski jump, skate on the Olympic ice skating rink, If I was going to pay $90+ to ski either gore or WF. I'd take WF- Always less people since after 5-8 runs most people are done so rarely a lift line. Yes, it is COLD- but then Skiing is a cold weather sport.

Killington is so big, if you don't know your way around, you can spend half a day on green/trails/roads getting from one area to the next and it is usually crowded even mid-week.

The question is not choosing between Whiteface and Gore, but whether to check out two ORDA mountains or two Ikon mountains as part of a ski safari that includes Tremblant. Could be any time someone is driving north from PA/NYC/NJ/CT. But what started me thinking was what a few Divas were discussing in relation to Diva Week East at Tremblant coming up in March.

No matter how much can be found online about a mountain, whether big or small, there is no substitute for a day or two of personal experience. Just as demo'ing skis is the best way to choose which model of skis to buy. Not talking about a "trip of a lifetime" to a destination resort that requires buying a plane ticket and paying for a full week of lodging. Rather a chance for an intermediate to try a new mountain and expand their horizons on new blues and perhaps an easy black.

Staying in Lake Placid and spending a day or two at Whiteface, while allowing time for other non-skiing activities, should be on the bucket list for anyone willing to drive in the northeast during the winter. That's where I learned to ski on the few runs that I could handle as a beginner and later intermediate. It was quite a treat to get back there to ski after 40 years. The steep groomers are good fun for intermediates midweek when not crowded and the gondola is running. When Lookout is open, the Wilmington trail has great views.

I think Gore is worth exploring for a day, especially with a local Diva for a guide.

To take advantage of Ikon, Killington and Stratton seem to be the natural fit. Or Sugarbush with one of the other two. That's certainly what Alterra want people to think. For an adventurous intermediate, spending a day at each to get a general feel for future reference might be worth while. Always assuming decent conditions and good visibility. Plus a tolerance for driving in VT on 2-lane roads. I suggest planning on two days at just one resort as Plan A though. That means a day to get oriented and a second to really enjoy parts of the mountain that were fun the first day. All three have resort and non-resort lodging options and good restaurants nearby for a dinner or two.

The advantage of a driving ski safari skiing midweek is flexibility. Assuming lodging reservations can be cancelled or aren't made until closer to the travel dates. If it looks like poor visibility or snow conditions won't be fun, can adjust the travel plan and change to Plan B for where to ski. Midweek the options farther south between Tremblant and NJ/NYC/CT include Windham, Hunter, Belleayre in the Catskills or Jiminy Peak or even Catamount in the Berkshires. Windham is the home mountain of Mermer Blakeslee, the author of A Conversation with Fear. I have no doubt that any intermediate would benefit from taking lessons from her.