Stronger side

[MaineSkiLady]

Over 50 years of skiing and still taking lessons.....Just finished a 5 day clinic with the CSIA at Tremblant. You can always learn something.

^^ This. With PSIA/AASI USA, certified instructors are required to take at least a 2 day event every other year. Lessons and learning really never end.

However/caveat -- it is possible to "overload." It's possible to get TOO much information and input (with possible conflicting advice) all at once. One of the biggest factors in progressing is....MILEAGE. Just ski. (And>>ENJOY!) And have stuff checked out at regular intervals to ensure no bad habits developing (or if you have a specific problem or concern).

 

[bounceswoosh]

I take a lot of lessons. I didn't start getting good, in my opinion, until I was taking several all day lessons a season. To be fair, that also coincided with me getting more than 30 days a season of skiing, so it could just be miles in the saddle.

 

[COchick]

I usually try to take a lesson each trip... I mean sometimes it's simply not affordable, but it's usually helpful nevertheless. I'm always trying to reach the next level, and sometimes having an objective third party analyze your technique is the best thing. At this point my lessons mostly focus on bumps and trees. I ski mostly with very good/expert skiers (don't consider myself an expert though), and for the most part they are also great instructors but sometimes we just want to SKI, you know? Aside from lessons, simply skiing with those above my level makes me a better skier.

 

[Jen]

I take a lot of lessons. I didn't start getting good, in my opinion, until I was taking several all day lessons a season. To be fair, that also coincided with me getting more than 30 days a season of skiing, so it could just be miles in the saddle.

Wow, 30 days in a season! I'm pretty sure I haven't yet clocked 30 days lifetime! I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing - getting out on the slopes when I can, taking lessons every so often. I wish I could get out there more, but it's hard living in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, I'm limited by the weather and the fact that I can't really ski mid-week (I'm a teacher). So my progress is probably going to happen more slowly than I would like.

I usually try to take a lesson each trip... I mean sometimes it's simply not affordable, but it's usually helpful nevertheless. I'm always trying to reach the next level, and sometimes having an objective third party analyze your technique is the best thing. At this point my lessons mostly focus on bumps and trees. I ski mostly with very good/expert skiers (don't consider myself an expert though), and for the most part they are also great instructors but sometimes we just want to SKI, you know? Aside from lessons, simply skiing with those above my level makes me a better skier.

I agree about wanting to just ski! It probably would help if I had the opportunity to ski with stronger skiers who could give me feedback. The crew I tend to go with is mainly snowboarders, and mainly guys, so there's not a lot of opportunities for instruction there! I think I've also been comparing myself to them too much and trying to get to their level, but that's probably not a fair comparison.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Wow, 30 days in a season! I'm pretty sure I haven't yet clocked 30 days lifetime! I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing - getting out on the slopes when I can, taking lessons every so often. I wish I could get out there more, but it's hard living in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, I'm limited by the weather and the fact that I can't really ski mid-week (I'm a teacher). So my progress is probably going to happen more slowly than I would like.

When I lived on the east coast, a BIG season would have been 9 days. Four days would have been more typical. It is very hard to progress that way. I was still skiing black diamonds at Roundtop, Liberty, etc, but I wouldn't say I was particularly good at it. Then I graduated from college, and honestly didn't ski for a few years - I couldn't manage my schedule well enough, and after visiting Utah and Colorado, local skiing didn't hold much appeal (sorry!!).

When I moved to Colorado, we still only skied a few times a year. The I-70 drive is brutal. Then we got a dog, and I didn't want to leave the dog at home when we might get stuck in 4 hours of traffic on the back end. So then we rented a room in Summit County, and two-day ski weekends became much more common. It snowballed from there into a full-blown addiction. At the same time, we were taking full advantage of the Breck lesson club, so I would say I typically get 20+ lessons a season, although most of them aren't really lessons in the traditional sense, more guided skiing - but guided by a highly certified instructor who gives us pointers while we're out there. My biggest season was about 75 days of skiing, but I don't have the fortitude to ski that much while I have a job. We now pretty much use all our vacation for three day weekends in the mountains.

I guess what I'm saying is that this hobby can be as addictive and costly as the other white powder ...

 

[Jilly]

I ski the east coast and have 30 days already. I will admit to a one week clinic, but having a place on the mountain sure helps. It's been mostly weekends and holidays. And I drive 5 hours to do it! No kids to worry about, so it's easier.

 

[Powgirl]

Jen...I, too, have a stronger side. I have dorsal bunion on top of my foot...it's small, but enough to make it a little harder to apply pressure onto my right foot, in the toe and ball area. My right turns are much stronger, smoother.

What has helped me is to be more patient in the turn. I think when I felt a weakness with my right foot, I would tend to rush that left turn a bit instead if giving it a second or two more to make sure I was finishing it...it's improved my skiing alot!!

 

[newboots]

Hi Jen -

It's a struggle when the weather won't cooperate or we don't live close enough to a mountain. But one thing can change - you can meet other women to ski with! Almost everyone else here is better than me (I began this year), and when I meet someone to ski with, I get that chance, to ski with someone better. I learn a LOT. I have also taken lessons (4 so far), but skiing with advanced skiers is cheaper.

Keep skiing!

 

[tinymoose]

^^ This. With PSIA/AASI USA, certified instructors are required to take at least a 2 day event every other year. Lessons and learning really never end.

However/caveat -- it is possible to "overload." It's possible to get TOO much information and input (with possible conflicting advice) all at once. One of the biggest factors in progressing is....MILEAGE. Just ski. (And>>ENJOY!) And have stuff checked out at regular intervals to ensure no bad habits developing (or if you have a specific problem or concern).

Our race coach only really wants us working on one thing each season for this reason. To avoid the overload.

 

[tinymoose]

So I don't know enough about skiing yet to know what a double fault line is! I'm sure there's a technique issue. I took two lessons last year, but we didn't talk about any of the things you said. Lift the big toe? I could try that. I should probably sign up for another lesson! I feel like instructors are so hit or miss though.

I bought my boots at a ski shop and they have a moldable liner. I don't think that counts as a boot fitter though. I know there's biomechanical issues with my feet - a podiatrist once described my right foot as a loose bag of bones! Any bootfitters near Philly who could help with that?

Hi Jen! Fellow Philly person here. Where did you get your boots locally? What boots do you have when you say the liner is moldable? Did they check your alignment at all?

Normally I'd recommend my boot fitter (Dieter at Alpina Ski Shop up near Jack Frost), but if you got them at Buckmans... Dieter did mention to me recently that he knows a couple good fitters there that could maybe help you. I could probably ask him their names (I don't remember them). Usually if you buy boots somewhere, they should honor the fit... including working on them. Dieter could certainly help you, but since you didn't buy the boots from him it would cost money.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing - getting out on the slopes when I can, taking lessons every so often.

That's pretty much the main solution, I think. You will get to a point where both sides are strong enough that the natural asymmetry does not manifest in your motion… although you may always feel as if you are moving asymmetrically.

I have two drill suggestions for you.

1) With each turn, when pole-planting, put both arms forward approximately the same amount with each other and with each turn. This corrects the problem of turning the upper body asymmetrically, as a symptom or a cause of your leg asymmetry. Also corrects the problem common at intermediate level of trying to steer the skis with the upper body (which, because of Newton's third law of motion, has the opposite effect).

2) Stay on the weaker turn longer. This is also diagnostic, because you will then see what you are trying to avoid by half-assing the turn.

Hope this helps!

 

[AdkLynn]

Um. I've been trying to find a definition of a double fall line. It's hard. And now I'm trying to express it.

I think the best way to picture it is, picture standing at the top of a run where you can see the bottom of the chair lift way in the distance. (Simplified) the straight line from where you're standing to the chair lift is the fall line. It's where water would go if you dribbled it down the run. That's pretty straight forward.

But what if the right side of the run is higher than the left, so that you're constantly being "sucked" left and need to work to keep going straight down to the chair lift? A run like that is described as having a "double fall line," because there are two directions water might flow.

Perfect description! Almost all the trails at Whiteface have a double fall line that inclines severely to the left. Sometimes really close to the trees! Or a cliff! Only this year with my new skis, have I been able to make confident turns both directions despite the fall line. It's a trust issue, relaxing enough to make rounder turns and finish them without panicking, whether they are short or long turns, fast or slow.

 

[marzNC]

Out of curiosity (maybe this should be a separate thread), how many lessons do most people take before they feel like they're skiing well? Over the past three years I've taken three 75-90 minute lessons and one full day. I've improved a lot but still have a ways to go! How frequently should I be trying to take lessons?

It's fair to say that there is nothing standard about how many lessons people take because there are too many variables involved. Money and time are the easiest to quantify. Lots of intangibles. Especially after reaching an intermediate level that has people skiing blues and perhaps blacks as well. "Skiing well" has many definitions. For me as a working adult, I was only skiing groomers during a ski vacation out west every 2-3 years. Had more than enough fun so taking lessons was of no interest. I wasn't going to have the opportunity to practice enough to make any significant progress even after a lesson that would hold until the next trip.

Had I known what I've learned in recent years about lessons as an advanced skier, I should've started taking a few lessons at the same time she was learning. I was a strong intermediate at that point. What helped a lot was learning how and when to take lessons, as well as understanding the PSIA certification and instructor training process.

My friend, JF, started learning when her kids started several years ago. They only get to ski the two holiday weekends at Massanutten. JF started with the beginner package (2 hours). Later on, she did the 90-min group lesson for Adv. Beginners/Intermediates most trips. Really has helped keep her from developing bad habits. She has pretty good form and makes rounded turns most of the time. In some ways, group lessons for intermediates at small ski areas can be a good deal because relatively few adults take them.

The idea is to learn enough from a lesson to know how to practice correctly. Not all the time. But on enough easy runs to build up fundamentals.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

2) Stay on the weaker turn longer. This is also diagnostic, because you will then see what you are trying to avoid by half-assing the turn.

I like this, and I know it works for me. Everyone has a weaker side, for just about everything. We are bilaterally asymmetrical

 

[Jen]

Hi Jen! Fellow Philly person here. Where did you get your boots locally? What boots do you have when you say the liner is moldable? Did they check your alignment at all?

Normally I'd recommend my boot fitter (Dieter at Alpina Ski Shop up near Jack Frost), but if you got them at Buckmans... Dieter did mention to me recently that he knows a couple good fitters there that could maybe help you. I could probably ask him their names (I don't remember them). Usually if you buy boots somewhere, they should honor the fit... including working on them. Dieter could certainly help you, but since you didn't buy the boots from him it would cost money.

I have the Atomic Hawx 80. I did get them at Buckman's. I don't know if I had an alignment test? This was my first major ski equipment purchase. I guess I should call the store and see if they have anyone who could take a look at the fit of them?

That's pretty much the main solution, I think. You will get to a point where both sides are strong enough that the natural asymmetry does not manifest in your motion… although you may always feel as if you are moving asymmetrically.

I have two drill suggestions for you.

1) With each turn, when pole-planting, put both arms forward approximately the same amount with each other and with each turn. This corrects the problem of turning the upper body asymmetrically, as a symptom or a cause of your leg asymmetry. Also corrects the problem common at intermediate level of trying to steer the skis with the upper body (which, because of Newton's third law of motion, has the opposite effect).

2) Stay on the weaker turn longer. This is also diagnostic, because you will then see what you are trying to avoid by half-assing the turn.

Hope this helps!

So I took a lesson a few weeks ago where they introduced pole planting, but it was a quick group lesson and I didn't get enough time to practice that with the instructors. For the next day of skiing I tried pole planting, but I felt like I was focusing too much on that and not enough on my lower body, so then I stopped. And I know that I'm rushing the right turns - I had a friend take a video and it was really apparent. Ugh, I guess I really just need to sign up for a private lesson with someone who can help with this!!

 

[Powgirl]

Jen...for me, it's too much to work on more than one thing at a time, but you can practice a couple of things during the day...practice giving those turns more time when you are on an easy cruiser...making them rounded vs zig zag...practice the pole planting when you're on steeper terrain, or in bumps.

Also...I was very stubborn about not seeing a boot fitter...I finally saw one last week and learned quite alot that not only was affecting my skiing, but that there are some relatively easy fixes to improve things...I have a significant amount of over pronation, which I can now see in everyday life, too...wish I would have gone in sooner.

 

[newboots]

@Jen You can call the shop and ask for an appointment with the bootfitter. And didn't somebody above say they could get you a couple of names at that store? That's the best method, I think.

 

[COchick]

I guess what I'm saying is that this hobby can be as addictive and costly as the other white powder ...

Funny!

Yeah, I think everyone has a strong/weak side. Mine really comes more into play toward the end of the day when I get tired. Then I get floppy leg on my weak side. The hardest part for me is just recognizing the signs of just being lazy vs. being tired. And if I'm tired, to actually convince myself to either take a break or be done for the day. It's REALLY hard for me not to ski bell-to-bell, but I know when things get sloppy is when the likelihood for a stupid accident increases, so it's in my best interests to listen to my body and not push the physical limits. I guess I'm just not as young as I once was!

 

[marzNC]

So I took a lesson a few weeks ago where they introduced pole planting, but it was a quick group lesson and I didn't get enough time to practice that with the instructors. For the next day of skiing I tried pole planting, but I felt like I was focusing too much on that and not enough on my lower body, so then I stopped. And I know that I'm rushing the right turns - I had a friend take a video and it was really apparent. Ugh, I guess I really just need to sign up for a private lesson with someone who can help with this!!

Try not to get overly concerned about pole planting just yet. @nopoleskier can explain why much better than I can.

Funny story . . . my ski buddy who was an advanced skier decades ago in high school found out during a Taos Ski Week recently that he's been planting his poles in the wrong place for bump skiing all along. Only reason he started taking lessons from Level 3 instructors a few years ago was because I wanted someone to take semi-private lessons with after learning how to get a recommendation for an instructor by name. Not only good for the lesson budget, I learn a lot observing how a very experienced instructor works with someone else.

What Pocono ski area is most convenient to your house? Doesn't matter how small. Probably has at least one Level 3 instructor on staff. Someone has to be available to do instructor training.

 

[tinymoose]

@Jen You can call the shop and ask for an appointment with the bootfitter. And didn't somebody above say they could get you a couple of names at that store? That's the best method, I think.

Buckmans is a local chain with multiple locations and people at each store. Each store won't have necessarily have just A boot fitter. I got my first boots there and got someone less than stellar (probably just a salesperson) and ended up in 100-last Salomon boots even though I have the world's skinniest feet. lol But yes, @Jen I'll ask about names and get back to you. I'm assuming they honor the fit of any boots they sell and will do any work at no cost to you, but you may want to check on that. I never went back to have any work done one my boots I bought from them so I'm not entirely sure what their policies are.