-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
Steepest trail in the east?
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
Someone had a thread on Alpine Zone awhile back on this subject. Give me some time to hunt it down. It was great - someone actually did calculations of headwalls: length, pitch in degrees, etc. Turns out that no single eastern run has a super-sustained steep pitch, but some have steeper sections. One that comes to mind right now is Outer Limits at Killington. Also in contention is White Nitro at Sugarloaf (which I plan to do today
), but the steepest section is only something like 500 feet in length. Several at Stowe. It was really interesting.I'm heading out asap to get early chair - heavy winds and about 6" blowing are expected up here by afternoon - I want to beat the traffic and bad weather home. Will start hunting the thread down then.
Confessions of a geek
OK, I'll fess up in this thread. I have a program that contains all the topo maps of Michigan. Being a math teacher, I ended up running some of the trail lines where I ski (to see just how steep it is) I can profile it, so I checked it out, calculated the angles, found out all the slopes, etc.
The "blue" run that I took on my 2nd lesson has about 40% pitch, which puts it at the black/blue cutoff. WTFluff was I doing trying to come down that. Even the "green" run that we have has a portion of it that runs at 35%.
Ugh, I never should have done it...but now, I suppose, I've already went down those slopes...what should it matter anymore (well, except for technique, form, etc)
If I had maps of other states, I would do the same for you, but I can't help you on this one.
OK, I'll fess up in this thread. I have a program that contains all the topo maps of Michigan. Being a math teacher, I ended up running some of the trail lines where I ski (to see just how steep it is) I can profile it, so I checked it out, calculated the angles, found out all the slopes, etc.
The "blue" run that I took on my 2nd lesson has about 40% pitch, which puts it at the black/blue cutoff. WTFluff was I doing trying to come down that. Even the "green" run that we have has a portion of it that runs at 35%.
Ugh, I never should have done it...but now, I suppose, I've already went down those slopes...what should it matter anymore (well, except for technique, form, etc)
If I had maps of other states, I would do the same for you, but I can't help you on this one.
ski now work later
Angel Diva
What about the only triple black diamond in the East which is at Smuggler's Notch? It's called Black Hole and is 1800' long. What I don't know is what makes it a triple black diamond -- pitch or trees or a combination. Oboe from Epic would know.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
I'd seen this site once before but didn't give it a proper look. My home mt is there! I've been staring at it for quite awhile! All the maps are fascinating. Well, just got back from a snowy day at Sugarloaf, haven't had time to settle in and hunt down that old thread (wherever it was) - someone had done a great job, but basically you can get all the info visually at a glance from these 3D maps
much easier!! And no, due to it being socked in with clouds with zero visibility all day, I didn't attempt the monster White Nitro today :( - really strange - sun was shining on the west side of the mountain, and the east side was in the middle of clouds and squalls---all day. We hightailed it home to beat the latest big storm, which is now descending - another 8" due, followed by 50-55 mph gusting winds
!
Quiver Queen
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think Ripcord @ Mt. Snow claims to be the steepest. I don't know about steepest, tho' it certainly is steep, but it's also the iciest run I've ever been on.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
After hunting through several dozen pages on Alpine Zone, I still can't find the neat thread with all the calculations and headwall lengths...
Should have bookmarked it...
Should have bookmarked it...
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
some interesting numbers
Follow-up: just had some spare time this a.m. and noted that Ski Diva did post the question over at Alpine Zone, with replies and links to several old threads.
There's a lot of math-head macho arguing over all this (of course--this is what guys do
) -- but these stats were interesting anyway. The OP used topographical maps to come up with these numbers, FWIW. The fact that only headwall pitches are measured interests me, because measuring the overall average on any run in total would lower the numbers considerably.
-------------
Freefall, Smuggs: 31 degrees for 300 ft. vertical
Goat, Stowe: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Goat woods, Stowe: 39 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Upper Wildcat, Wildcat: 27 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Black Cat, Wildcat: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
East Snowfields, Mt. Washington: 30 degrees for 600 ft. of vertical
Main Gully, Gulf of Slides: 34 degrees for 800 ft. of vertical
White Nitro, Sugarloaf: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Tight Line, Saddleback: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Paradise, Mad River Glen: 37 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Black Diamond, Sugarbush: 30 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Ovation, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Devils Fiddle, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Outer Limits, Killington: 29.5 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical, and 23.5 degrees for 1,000 ft. of vertical (*)
Hurricane, Pats Peak: 26.5 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical
Tims Trauma, Attitash: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Superstar, Killington: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
White Heat, Sunday River: 24 degrees for 500 ft. of vertical
---------* illustrates how the averaging for the entire vertical drop of the run significantly lowers the total
Follow-up: just had some spare time this a.m. and noted that Ski Diva did post the question over at Alpine Zone, with replies and links to several old threads.
There's a lot of math-head macho arguing over all this (of course--this is what guys do
) -- but these stats were interesting anyway. The OP used topographical maps to come up with these numbers, FWIW. The fact that only headwall pitches are measured interests me, because measuring the overall average on any run in total would lower the numbers considerably. -------------
Freefall, Smuggs: 31 degrees for 300 ft. vertical
Goat, Stowe: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Goat woods, Stowe: 39 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Upper Wildcat, Wildcat: 27 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Black Cat, Wildcat: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
East Snowfields, Mt. Washington: 30 degrees for 600 ft. of vertical
Main Gully, Gulf of Slides: 34 degrees for 800 ft. of vertical
White Nitro, Sugarloaf: 28 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Tight Line, Saddleback: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Paradise, Mad River Glen: 37 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Black Diamond, Sugarbush: 30 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Ovation, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Devils Fiddle, Killington: 31 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
Outer Limits, Killington: 29.5 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical, and 23.5 degrees for 1,000 ft. of vertical (*)
Hurricane, Pats Peak: 26.5 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical
Tims Trauma, Attitash: 22 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical
Superstar, Killington: 26 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical
White Heat, Sunday River: 24 degrees for 500 ft. of vertical
---------* illustrates how the averaging for the entire vertical drop of the run significantly lowers the total
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
No problem! I was so glad to see you had posted, asking for info: I knew the thread was in there somewhere--no wonder I didn't find it - dated back to 06!
What totally mesmerizes me is Tuckerman. Nothing steeper in the east, hands down. Anyone here done it? My son has, and it has been in DH's hopeful plans for years. This spring MIGHT be it. Next question: do I have the nerve??? It's about a 1.5-2 hour hike to get to the base of Tucks. Then hike the headwall. This is something of a major New England skier pilgrimage, and there's already a group of 3 in my circle of friends who are hoping to get there for sure this spring (can't be done in winter due to extreme Mt Washington weather and avalanche danger). But, of course, these are all macho guys with something to prove. As are most at the Ravine...
What totally mesmerizes me is Tuckerman. Nothing steeper in the east, hands down. Anyone here done it? My son has, and it has been in DH's hopeful plans for years. This spring MIGHT be it. Next question: do I have the nerve??? It's about a 1.5-2 hour hike to get to the base of Tucks. Then hike the headwall. This is something of a major New England skier pilgrimage, and there's already a group of 3 in my circle of friends who are hoping to get there for sure this spring (can't be done in winter due to extreme Mt Washington weather and avalanche danger). But, of course, these are all macho guys with something to prove. As are most at the Ravine...
Lori_K
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Be careful with the terms-- 40% pitch is not the same as a 40 degree pitch!
terms
yeah, I know the difference...I went so far as to calculate the angles of the hills.
The nice thing with my program is that it shows at that instant what the pitch is...it doesn't average it out like some of those that youse guys (a little yooper lingo there) were talking out. It gives me a nice (picture) profile of hill. I also use it with my GPS when I do a mountain bike race.
Somehow...when you're standing at the top...it all looks straight down to me.
yeah, I know the difference...I went so far as to calculate the angles of the hills.
The nice thing with my program is that it shows at that instant what the pitch is...it doesn't average it out like some of those that youse guys (a little yooper lingo there) were talking out. It gives me a nice (picture) profile of hill. I also use it with my GPS when I do a mountain bike race.
Somehow...when you're standing at the top...it all looks straight down to me.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
Does anyone know the conversions from % to degrees? Math is not my high point; engineer is not home.
up my alley
OK, this is up my alley, let's see if I can do this through a post.
Slope (pitch, grade) is defined as rise over run...that is, the vertical change over the horizontal change. So...40% pitch is 40/100 or a vertical change of 40 (let's say ft) for every horizontal change of 100(ft)
Now, draw a right trangle...the 40 is the vertical change, the 100 is the horizontal change and the hypotenuse is your ski hill. The tangent of an angle is the opposite over the adjacent...or 40 over 100. So, you do an inverse tangent of .4...and you get an angle of 22 degrees.
I've always operated under the assumption that the angle of a ski hill is measured from the horizontal (because that's how we measure most things)...but if it's somehow measured from the vertical (which wouldn't make sense) that's different.
A 45 degree angle is 100% because it is a 1:1 ratio of rise over run.
Even though I'm a newbie...I always find it interesting because most ski hills only tell you their vertical drop. Well, it doesn't really matter their vertical drop...if it's stretched out over a long horizontal distance. Steep is when you take the vertical drop and put it over a short horizontal run.
According to my research (yes, I'm a geek) a green run is anything less than 25% slope, blue is 25ish to 40ish, black is 40ish up...and I forgot the cutoff for double black.
Hope this helps
Forgot: at 25%, that gives you about a 14 degree angle. At 40%, that gives you a 22 degree angle. 60% puts you around 31 degrees. Somehow it always seems like the angles should be bigger...but like I said, when I stand at the top, they all seem straight down.
Double geek: I thought about taking my clinometer and measure the angles at various parts and doing the calculations.
PS an angle steeper than 35 degrees can pose a high avalanche hazard.
OK, this is up my alley, let's see if I can do this through a post.
Slope (pitch, grade) is defined as rise over run...that is, the vertical change over the horizontal change. So...40% pitch is 40/100 or a vertical change of 40 (let's say ft) for every horizontal change of 100(ft)
Now, draw a right trangle...the 40 is the vertical change, the 100 is the horizontal change and the hypotenuse is your ski hill. The tangent of an angle is the opposite over the adjacent...or 40 over 100. So, you do an inverse tangent of .4...and you get an angle of 22 degrees.
I've always operated under the assumption that the angle of a ski hill is measured from the horizontal (because that's how we measure most things)...but if it's somehow measured from the vertical (which wouldn't make sense) that's different.
A 45 degree angle is 100% because it is a 1:1 ratio of rise over run.
Even though I'm a newbie...I always find it interesting because most ski hills only tell you their vertical drop. Well, it doesn't really matter their vertical drop...if it's stretched out over a long horizontal distance. Steep is when you take the vertical drop and put it over a short horizontal run.
According to my research (yes, I'm a geek) a green run is anything less than 25% slope, blue is 25ish to 40ish, black is 40ish up...and I forgot the cutoff for double black.
Hope this helps
Forgot: at 25%, that gives you about a 14 degree angle. At 40%, that gives you a 22 degree angle. 60% puts you around 31 degrees. Somehow it always seems like the angles should be bigger...but like I said, when I stand at the top, they all seem straight down.
Double geek: I thought about taking my clinometer and measure the angles at various parts and doing the calculations.
PS an angle steeper than 35 degrees can pose a high avalanche hazard.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
Thanks, SuperMoe, that's the magic number: 45 degrees = 100%. Thought so, wasn't sure. Now I don't have to call DH at work. I haven't even talked about this with anyone in 20+ years, it's fun. Lots of Techno-Divas here!
Yeah, SnowHot, sure looks like Mansfield's the overall winner. (not my list, though, I "borrowed" it from Alpine Zone.)
I've done 5 on this list. Pending is Tuckerman this spring, although who knows if I'll have enough energy after the hike into the ravine (then UP the actual snow pack). That's flat-out the steepest thing in the east.
Yeah, SnowHot, sure looks like Mansfield's the overall winner. (not my list, though, I "borrowed" it from Alpine Zone.)
I've done 5 on this list. Pending is Tuckerman this spring, although who knows if I'll have enough energy after the hike into the ravine (then UP the actual snow pack). That's flat-out the steepest thing in the east.
Lori_K
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yeah, I figured you knew the difference, but I didn't want others to get confused! :p
Ok, so I was bored this morning. (Engineer with a math minor)
Plug the forumula (in bold) into an Excel spreadsheet.
To get degrees: =ATAN(%/100)*57.296 (Substitute the known slope in percent for the % sign)
To get percent: =TAN(DEG/57.296)*100 (Substitute the known slope in degrees for the DEG variable)
The constant 57.296 is basically 180/pi. You need this because Excel gives results in radians, and they need to be converted to degrees. (Where's the little geek smiley???!
)
