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Staffing at Ski Resorts: '21/'22

Skivt2

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Interesting. Killington had a sizable staff of instructors that are temporary and used to commit to teach for 5 days in exchange for some discounts and a lift ticket to use or give a friend for every day they teach plus the couple of training days. So you would teach MLK and 3 days Xmas week or a British holiday week and you were good. You could teach more than 5 if you wanted and keep getting tickets. Yo7 got paid lik3 $12/hr for the lesson time only. But it was kind of cool. My husband did it a couple years but skipped last year because of the virus mostly but he is in nursing school too. This year they made the minimum commitment 10 days and insisted that everyon3 teach a british holiday week. That made it impossible for my husband because he can’t miss a week of school. One of my best friends also was doing that. She teaches high school calculus so she had to quit being a temp for Killington this year too. Seems they shot themselves in the floot. Most of the temps are adults with housing. im sure they just lost many of the temps because they made it impossible for many.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Interesting. Killington had a sizable staff of instructors that are temporary and used to commit to teach for 5 days in exchange for some discounts and a lift ticket to use or give a friend for every day they teach plus the couple of training days. So you would teach MLK and 3 days Xmas week or a British holiday week and you were good. You could teach more than 5 if you wanted and keep getting tickets. Yo7 got paid lik3 $12/hr for the lesson time only. But it was kind of cool. My husband did it a couple years but skipped last year because of the virus mostly but he is in nursing school too. This year they made the minimum commitment 10 days and insisted that everyon3 teach a british holiday week. That made it impossible for my husband because he can’t miss a week of school. One of my best friends also was doing that. She teaches high school calculus so she had to quit being a temp for Killington this year too. Seems they shot themselves in the floot. Most of the temps are adults with housing. im sure they just lost many of the temps because they made it impossible for many.
Getting temps that way was a great deal for the mountain. They pay $12/hour for contact time only, which is peanuts, then give these temporary instructors a few free day tickets which costs the mountain nothing.

Part time instructors (not "temps") in New England tend to get similar pay per contact hour (a tiny portion of what the lesson-takers pay), a full no-black-out pass and maybe the same for nuclear family members after the first year (which costs the mountain nothing), and those PTs probably have to work 10 holidays per season plus 10-14 more days on weekends. I'm guessing, but that has been the usual process at the NE mountains where I've worked. That's still a great deal for the mountain. Super cheap labor!!!

Sounds like they are aiming the temp jobs at the retired local skiers who want a few free day tickets. I agree with you, this doesn't sound like a good deal from the point of view of locals who have the free time to work a full week when the Brits are there.

I wonder if they've increased the number of days they want their PTs to work.
 

Skivt2

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
No. It’s still 24 days for a free pass. 2 years at 24 days to get passes for family. According to my husband teaching beginning snowboarding on a slope served by a carpet is a pretty physical job as most beginners will hike up vs wait in a line for the carpet. He said he spent the day hiking up hill and physically holding people up. He said there was a chronic shortage of beginner snowboard instructors. It make no sense that they changed the rules so people like him can’t participate. He would have taught 5 days at xmas or MLKbut he can’t do a 5 day midweek like they are now requiring in February or March because of school. I doubt there are many retirees teaching beginning snowboarding.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The parking lot crew job description for Alta caught my eye. Never heard of "social perceptiveness" as a job skill but can understand the value.
I assume full-time seasonal means they don't give you any benefits. If the daily "skiing opportunities" they advertise are off the clock, there wouldn't be any worker's comp for injuries either. If you're young and still on your parents health insurance, that's a good gig. But boy, if you're uninsured and get hurt skiing, yikes. Not that other resorts do any better, it's just pointing out a persistent, terrible bind for seasonal workers.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
At the mountains where I've taught, there's workmen's comp for when you are working, meaning student contact time. But not when you free ski between assignments. If you are free-skiing in a jacket, and crash, that may present a problem for the mountain as they won't want to cover you but you will have been presenting yourself as a worker on the job. This is why some mountains won't let instructors free-ski in the jacket. Changing jackets to do a run or two between lessons is a bummer.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
In order for me to teach at Tremblant part time I have to put in 20 days to get the perks of passes. At Christmas you need to be available either Christmas day or New Years Day. Also Family Day in February. With the almost 5 hour drive to get there, it's not going to happen. I have taught President's week as a temp. Still had to pay union dues...

Little local bump has to pay a minimum 3 hours as per Ontario government regulations. So at least you're guaranteed some gas money. And they have to pay minimum wage no matter. But depending on certification you get more for the hours you work.

Right now, I'm too busy running a company to teach. But I'm keeping myself up to date for when I retire.
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The school I work for has loads of qualified candidates and no housing. Can't blame it all o short term rentals as they are expressly forbidden in most of our county. Paying the mortgage on a rental means long term rents in the 2k range for a studio when the median home is around 2 million.

I have never in 20 years been over 50 per cent pre booked by October for the entire season. It is going to get interesting. Hope lefties and patrol get pay bumps!
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I do appreciate your concern for us lefties! :wink: :wave:
Ugh.... dry fingers or speech to text with English as a 3rd language = epic funny fails in clear communication. Hurray for lefties!
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I know nothing about running a ski school. But, it seems like it would be really hard to manage staff, ensure consistency and offer a quality product with a bunch of people that only worked 5 days a year, no matter what the job or endeavor is. I don't think I'd want to pay for instruction from someone that only taught 5 times a year. I want someone that knows the mountain inside and out and is a true professional. Even the volunteer groups I'm involved with wouldn't let anyone offer their free labor that little. I can also think of other potential issues--maybe insurance or legal reasons, maybe customer feedback--that might mean having an employee that only works 5 days a year doesn't make sense. Again, I don't know, but I can imagine all sorts of possibilities.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....
I can also think of other potential issues--maybe insurance or legal reasons, maybe customer feedback--that might mean having an employee that only works 5 days a year doesn't make sense. Again, I don't know, but I can imagine all sorts of possibilities.
At one of my previous mountains the ski school managers would get on the phone and call up the local ski clubs to see if any of the members would like to work a week to teach never-ever British high school students when they came on vacation. There were never enough regularly scheduled instructors to cover these all-day lessons with the British kids. These temps would get a free day pass for every day they worked, but no pay at all.

I have no idea if they were covered by workman's comp. Hope so.

I would sit in the locker room and hear them complaining about the kids not doing what they told them to do. Now these are high school students on vacation, so there is a need for some "classroom management" skills in the instructors. Clearly these temps did not have those skills, since they were not teachers, just skiers looking for extra free day tickets. But honestly, these are British kids. They are intensely polite. Not like American teenagers at all. It was shameful that the ski school scheduled these kids to come without having properly trained staff to teach them to ski. Most of the kids had experienced one half day on a dry slope somewhere back home, but nothing else. They were truly first day beginners.

I never thought it was a good idea to put these volunteer skiers in charge of those kids. There's a serious safety issue if some individuals in the group do not follow the instructor's directions of where to go, how fast to get there, and how to stay in the group without taking off on their own.

One day during the "British invasion" at this same mountain (not my current one), I rode the lift with a woman whose daughter was a ski patroller there. She told me her daughter loved it when the Brits came because there was all of a sudden so much more to do as a patroller. There were far more accidents than usual, so her days were more interesting.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
The Brits "invade" Mont Ste. Anne in February. I've been asked to come down to teach for either of the 2 weeks. I know at Tremblant the American's want more competent instructors for their lessons during Presidents week. So it's better to be older and higher certified. At Tremblant I'm sure that the temp's are mostly L1 and instructing kids.

Remember we can't teach in Canada without being certified. Our insurance during teaching is covered by the CSIA, not the ski school.
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I assume full-time seasonal means they don't give you any benefits. If the daily "skiing opportunities" they advertise are off the clock, there wouldn't be any worker's comp for injuries either. If you're young and still on your parents health insurance, that's a good gig. But boy, if you're uninsured and get hurt skiing, yikes. Not that other resorts do any better, it's just pointing out a persistent, terrible bind for seasonal workers.

I can’t answer to 2021. But a good number of years ago one of my employees was a volunteer ski patroller in New England. He slipped stepping into the lodge when he had a lot of snow built up on the bottom of his boot and didn’t know it. He broke his arm. The mountain paid him under Worker’s Compensation. No idea if that would happen today, but it was interesting for us since we worked in that industry.

On the other hand, that sort of thing maybe why Vail eliminated volunteer ambassador jobs. Volunteers could easily be seen as a gray area for coverage.
 

Skivt2

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I know nothing about running a ski school. But, it seems like it would be really hard to manage staff, ensure consistency and offer a quality product with a bunch of people that only worked 5 days a year, no matter what the job or endeavor is. I don't think I'd want to pay for instruction from someone that only taught 5 times a year. I want someone that knows the mountain inside and out and is a true professional. Even the volunteer groups I'm involved with wouldn't let anyone offer their free labor that little. I can also think of other potential issues--maybe insurance or legal reasons, maybe customer feedback--that might mean having an employee that only works 5 days a year doesn't make sense. Again, I don't know, but I can imagine all sorts of possibilities.
It’s not like they hire anyone off the street. My husband is a certified level 1 snowboard instructor as well as a PSIA trained adaptive instructor and teaches for an adaptive program as a volunteer as well. We are local to Killington and have skied Killington over 100 days in each of the last 5 years. So we definitely know the mountain. The requirement was to commit to 5 holiday days at a minimum but in addition to that there were several on snow training days. Plus support for certification. My husband was teaching beginners and never Evers (as is appropriate for his level 1 certification). I’m sure he could show people at intermediate or even expert level a thing or two in a lesson as he specializes in moguls and trees which is a bit unusual for a snowboarder. He skied for 25 years before going to snowboarding 100% 15 years ago. As a 55 year old he has some maturity to handle a group of teenage Brit boys for a week which he did do before he went back to school. My friend, who is a teacher by trade at a high school, was teaching children to ski. She is a mom who taught her own kids to ski. She grew up skiing the mountain and skis over 50 days a season. I think she did teach 10 days last year anyway and my husband might be able to pull that off as well but neither of them can do a five day Brit week this year due to their other obligations. Making that a requirement is what took them out of the mix. killington is a major mountain and did not just hire anyone as a temp. I wonder though how they can fill these temporary positions for holidays now, with the staff shortages we all know exist, all the while creating barriers to bringing back highly qualified people like my husband and my friend.
 
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marzNC

Angel Diva
I thought ski instructors had training and qualification requirements.
In the U.S., a ski school is free to hire whoever they like as instructors. There is no requirement for PSIA certification at any level.

Small ski schools who hire locals will do their own Instructor Training Course in early season to get as many people basic training as possible. But if someone is hired mid-season, a trainer would do some training but not a full program. At a small mountain, someone who is going to be hired only to teach in a Children's Program only needs to be an intermediate skier 16 and over who seems likely to be a good fit. That's how it works at Massanutten. I assumes that's true for small ski areas/resorts in the east, meaning somewhere there is little ungroomed terrain and under 150 skiable acres.

A destination resort, such as any resort on Epic or Ikon, is much less likely to have instructors who don't have at least PSIA Level 2 for adult lessons. L2 also requires Children Cert 1. At Alta, the group lessons are often taught by L3 instructors. While same may only have been teaching at Alta for a few years, they generally have 10+ years of experience elsewhere.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
In the U.S., a ski school is free to hire whoever they like as instructors. There is no requirement for PSIA certification at any level.
I didn't realize this. I've always read so much about the training and certification instructors go through. I have never bothered to check the qualifications of the instructors at any given place where I've taken a lesson. Good to know!

It also explains how my friend's high school age sons taught kids at Snoqualmie last year even though my friend herself thought them quite unqualified (but she was happy to have them out of the house on weekends).
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I didn't realize this. I've always read so much about the training and certification instructors go through. I have never bothered to check the qualifications of the instructors at any given place where I've taken a lesson. Good to know!
It's a bit odd. As I remember, someone who is going to take the PSIA Level 1 Exam has to have a ski school connection. Quite a while ago another Diva asked the question on another ski forum with lots of instructors whether or not having a higher level PSIA certification meant higher pay or any other advantages. Between her questions and mine, we learned a lot about the reasons some people don't think pursuing PSIA certification is worthwhile but others think it is a good idea. Per usual, there is no right answer. It just depends on the situation.

After that discussion, I paid more attention to discussions about PSIA exams. While I won't ask an instructor at the start what PSIA level they are, I usually find a way to learn the answer before we part company.

It took a while for me to have enough lessons with Level 2 and Level 3 instructors to get a sense of the difference. I've worked with about twenty L3 instructors at assorted locations in the past decade. Some I requested by name because of a recommendation, others were random assignments. I've worked with a few L2 instructors with 10+ years of experience in more than one location. I've got favorite instructors at my home mountain, Massanutten, and at my favorite resorts out west.

A Level 2 instructor who has been teaching for 15+ years can be very effective as a teacher if the chemistry is good. I've worked with L2 instructors who I'm happy to work with again. There can be many reasons that pushing on to do what's required to train for and pass the teaching and skiing exams for Level 3 doesn't happen. Even someone who ends up working as a ski instructor for a major part of their adult life.

However, my sense of Level 3 instructors is that they are continually thinking about the teaching aspect of the job. Doesn't matter if a L3 instructor has been teaching for 30 years, they are still trying to figure out the best way to teach an advanced beginner or intermediate fundamental skills. Or how to teach an instructor how to teach fundamentals. They are often practicing fundamentals when they are free skiing on a groomer. I always learn a lot from a L3 instructor, even if it's a situation when I'm lucky enough to go free skiing with one for a few runs.

In Canada, the basic certification is a requirement to be considered for an instructor job.
 

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