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So what's going to happen next season?

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Absent a vaccine by December, I wonder if smaller east-coast resorts will be able to open if they have to operate at reduced capacity. There's so much less acreage and more dependence on snowmaking here. How would they generate enough revenue to cover operating costs?

I'm honestly resigned to a self-powered ski season just as a way to be mentally prepared. I do have an AT set-up and access to non-resort trails and I can see that being a challenging, rewarding season. Then, if lift-served skiing does open up, more's the better.
 

lisamamot

Angel Diva
Pretty standard golf etiquette is to only play in groups of 4, any more than that slows down the pace of play substantially. So, people who play like that are already not playing by the "rules"...not surprised to see them not following Covid rules as well.

I think most courses in NH are encouraging walking, but some are either allowing 1 person per cart, or allowing carts for members of the same household.

Sounds like MA is the same - I had been told no carts, but that isn't what the MA Guidelines say; I was misinformed. I guarantee you those adult men all playing together with only a few carts among them were not all from the same house!

"Golf carts may be used only if each cart is used by and contains only a single rider, or a group of family members living in the same house. Any carts used must be cleaned and sanitized after each use."

https://www.massgolf.org/play/safeplayguidelines/
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I have to think they aren't going to want to run lifts at full capacity, though. Even if everyone is made to wear a mask-- our masks are better than nothing but not close to foolproof. With everyone crammed on to a lift, and with people holding their poles, and with the percentage of skiers that are younger males or just males in general... I don't trust that people will cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze, and I think people riding with friends will be tempted to pull down their mask and talk with their friends as soon as they're on the lift and out of view of staff. I can't be the only one that will not want to ride with strangers. Yes it's outside, but it's close sustained exposure to people's droplets/aerosols. If they aren't running lifts at full capacity, they are going to need some kind of crowd control system.
 

Ori

Diva in Training
My partner is an Aussie instructor and they're planning on opening up for the southern hemisphere winter, however, he is choosing not to go down and work due to the high risk of financial loss. The ski schools will only be offering private lessons so it might be a very different experience for anyone going skiing. It will undoubtedly be more expensive in order to accommodate social distancing but the plus side is I imagine the slopes will be much quieter!

My ski school in Japan and my future one in China are both planning on opening as usual. I don't know if their hiring numbers have changed but it all seems hopeful there. We were still operating in Japan right until our hotel closed in April but with plenty of social distancing and hygiene measures put in place. Very worried for the ski instructors of the world if corona continues to impact our industry!

If there is a significant impact for the next couple of seasons we could see a real change in locker room experience. There would be a gap where we have a lot of newly qualified instructors, and then those who have been teaching for a very long time. Will be interesting to see what comes of it all.
 

NewEnglandSkier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have a season pass to a kayak/canoe/SUP business which operates in several locations around my area--and the way they are handling things is you have to make a reservation. You can have up to four active reservations booked at a time--for any dates they are operating. Then as you use reservations up you can book another one. There is a no-show fee of $20 and you won't be allowed to make any more reservations until the fee gets paid if you don't show. They also have a 48 hour cancel window for pass holders and I think a 7 day window for the general public. The reservation slots are I think spaced 10 minutes apart and there are 3 spaces available for each time slot.
I imagine ski areas could do something similar--especially the no show fee since it impacts their ability to sell or give that slot to somebody else.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
My partner is an Aussie instructor and they're planning on opening up for the southern hemisphere winter, however, he is choosing not to go down and work due to the high risk of financial loss. The ski schools will only be offering private lessons so it might be a very different experience for anyone going skiing. It will undoubtedly be more expensive in order to accommodate social distancing but the plus side is I imagine the slopes will be much quieter!

My ski school in Japan and my future one in China are both planning on opening as usual. I don't know if their hiring numbers have changed but it all seems hopeful there. We were still operating in Japan right until our hotel closed in April but with plenty of social distancing and hygiene measures put in place. Very worried for the ski instructors of the world if corona continues to impact our industry!

If there is a significant impact for the next couple of seasons we could see a real change in locker room experience. There would be a gap where we have a lot of newly qualified instructors, and then those who have been teaching for a very long time. Will be interesting to see what comes of it all.
Thanks for the info about what's going on for ski instructors in Australia and Asia. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens in Australia and New Zealand in the next few weeks as they get ready to open up. I've read that NZ gives travel exemptions for people flying into the country to do "essential" work. They have to do a 14-day quarantine at their company's expense (not NZ government). One of the companies that has an exemption is completing a new chairlift at a ski resort.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I imagine ski areas could do something similar--especially the no show fee since it impacts their ability to sell or give that slot to somebody else.
Agree that there needs to be some penalty for a not showing up.

At Deer Valley, if an Ikon holder reserved a day last season but didn't show up by mid-morning then the day was still deducted from their total for the season.
 

Ori

Diva in Training
Thanks for the info about what's going on for ski instructors in Australia and Asia. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens in Australia and New Zealand in the next few weeks as they get ready to open up. I've read that NZ gives travel exemptions for people flying into the country to do "essential" work. They have to do a 14-day quarantine at their company's expense (not NZ government). One of the companies that has an exemption is completing a new chairlift at a ski resort.

Crikey that'll be a big cost for those companies.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Today on social media, someone asked on the New England Pass page whether there will be capacity restrictions/reservations required/lotteries for passholders next season. This is at the forefront of people’s minds who buy the pass for Sunday River/Loon/Sugarloaf because the passes are being taken off sale this coming Monday and it is not definitive that they will go back on sale in the future or not. They are supposedly definitely not selling them the rest of the summer, and will then reassess in the fall. The response was that passholders will not be limited, and that each passholder will be guaranteed access for at least 150 days which is what their operating gaurantee is for next season. If they are not open for at least 150 days then we will get refunds or credits based on how many days under they are.

This sounds like good news so far, or better than I was thinking anyway. Fingers crossed! I bought my pass already as I can decide until December 10th whether to roll it over or not, and I don’t want to miss out if they don’t put them back on sale.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
In case you're wondering what Vail might have in mind for their North American resorts next season, here's what they're doing in Australia right now. Maybe it's an indicator of things to come?
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Squaw contacted me with a survey regarding my feelings and plans for next season. A lot of had to do with what I might be willing to do and what I would be willing to do. There was a comment section at the end. I made it clear that I although I do plan to travel to Squaw next year, I won't if I am not able to guarantee my ski days in advance. I'm fine with a reservation system but let me plan in advance. The day before is too short notice for me.

https://www.seniorsskiing.com sent me a similar type of survey and I responded much the same.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
In case you're wondering what Vail might have in mind for their North American resorts next season, here's what they're doing in Australia right now. Maybe it's an indicator of things to come?

So long as the reservation process allows reservations to be made in advance, it works for me. Otherwise, how will anyone know if they can get on the mountain or not. I worry more about the US resorts that allow unlimited access. How will that work? Will the number of days each pass holder can reserve have limitations?
 
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StayWarm

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In case you're wondering what Vail might have in mind for their North American resorts next season, here's what they're doing in Australia right now. Maybe it's an indicator of things to come?

Super interesting -- thanks for sharing! Mostly what I would've expected, though they don't seem to be requiring face masks.

I thought this bit (in the screenshot) was especially interesting. Capacity is limited to 50% and for the first month everyone has to have a reservation, but after about one month from opening, Epic Pass holders will no longer be required to have a reservation. Not sure how they expect to continue within 50% number, especially on weekends, if pass holders aren't required to reserve in advance.
 

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marzNC

Angel Diva
In case you're wondering what Vail might have in mind for their North American resorts next season, here's what they're doing in Australia right now. Maybe it's an indicator of things to come?
It's a little hard to compare Australia to the Rockies, even for the Vail Resorts locations only. Australia has had very few new cases in the last couple months and most involved people returning from another country overseas. What will be interesting to see is when/if Epic holders will not have to make a reservation for a lift ticket. Presumably that would only be mid-week. My sense is that the level of crowding on weekends in Australia is comparable to the Mid-Atlantic, New England, or Tahoe.

The idea is that Perisher, Hotham, and Falls Creek will operate at 50% capacity. That's probably based on negotiations with the government public health officials. Interesting that initially only multi-day tickets will be offered. Family groups can ride together. Although I doubt that anyone who wants to ride together on a chairlift won't be challenged for proof they are from the same household.

With tubing and "snow play" areas closed, clearly they expect that people who head to the VR resorts will mostly be going for skiing/boarding and not so much for other activities designed more for non-skiers.

From Perisher website on June 11, 2020

Screen Shot 2020-06-11 at 9.32.55 AM.png
 
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marzNC

Angel Diva
Super interesting -- thanks for sharing! Mostly what I would've expected, though they don't seem to be requiring face masks.

I thought this bit (in the screenshot) was especially interesting. Capacity is limited to 50% and for the first month everyone has to have a reservation, but after about one month from opening, Epic Pass holders will no longer be required to have a reservation. Not sure how they expect to continue within 50% number, especially on weekends, if pass holders aren't required to reserve in advance.

VR will know soon how many people got for Epic Australia given that the season starts in a few weeks. Epic Australia is a separate offering from the N. American Epic pass, which some Australians were buying for Jan-Feb trips to Canada or the U.S. Presumably the July 13 date is based partially on the optimistic view that by late June there won't be any new cases of COVID-19 being detected in the entire country. It there were no longer any limitations on large groups in Australia, then VR and other ski resort operators could stop limiting capacity. Having completely closed borders on a island country that's big enough to be considered a continent with only 25 million people is quite different than the U.S.

The contrast to Thredbo is very sharp. Thredbo eliminating their season passes by giving everyone a refund. What's planned is that people who had already bought one will get discounts on day tickets as the number of days increases. It's not going over well. Thredbo is on Ikon/MCP.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
So long as the reservation process allows reservations to be made in advance, it works for me. Otherwise, how will anyone know if they can get on the mountain or not. I worry more about the US resorts that allow unlimited access. How will that work? Will the number of days each pass holder can reserve have limitations?
Good questions. My guess is that the choices made will vary a lot by region and who the primary market is for a given ski area/resort.

As an example, consider the NY Catskills, which is popular with folks from NYC for driving ski trips on weekends. Windham is on Ikon, Hunter is on Epic, Belleayre is owned by NY State via ORDA and has a combined pass with Gore and Whiteface (longer drive from NYC), and Plattekill is fully independent. Windham and Hunter have resort lodging that is slopeside. Belleayre has very little lodging less than 30 minutes from the base. Plattekill has even less lodging close by. But Plattekill is a longer drive so is not crowded on weekends.

Since all four are in the same state, the same rules related to COVID-19 health and safety will apply. Wonder if the New England states will end up with the same rules for out-of-state travelers?
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Super interesting -- thanks for sharing! Mostly what I would've expected, though they don't seem to be requiring face masks.

I thought this bit (in the screenshot) was especially interesting. Capacity is limited to 50% and for the first month everyone has to have a reservation, but after about one month from opening, Epic Pass holders will no longer be required to have a reservation. Not sure how they expect to continue within 50% number, especially on weekends, if pass holders aren't required to reserve in advance.

That is interesting about the unlimited passholder access. As an epic passholder, the Northeast one, I am interested. At this point I wish I had bought the epic Northeast weekday pass only! But I will worry about that later. Not an issue for June 11.
 

Ski Sine Fine

Angel Diva
I read this several days ago, an interview with Thredo’s GM: https://www.snowsbest.com/stuart-diver-season-thredbo/

One of his answers worries me:

SB: If you’ve already booked accommodation why can’t you get ticket preference?

SD: That’s a really hard one, but if you look at it like this – so if I only have a limited part of the mountain open, and I’m skiing a maximum capacity on that day of 400 people [example only], how do I prioritise 400 tickets into an accommodation base of two and a half thousand, number one?
...
How can I [prioritise], when I don’t even know what that capacity may be on a certain day because I don’t know what runs are going to be open? To leave that in with accommodation is just impossible to do, so therefore that’s why our model is jump online, buy your pass.

If you’ve got your pass and have accommodation, and someone say they booked seven days accommodation and then are only able to get five days with the passes, and that’s just the season it’s going to be.


That’s so not going to work. What if you got zero days? Maybe he’s talking about lodging in town and not slopeside. (I have no idea if Thredbo has slopeside lodging. And I wonder in general what is the ratio of slopeside lodging to mountain capacity.). If, let’s say, Breck does that, I’d think twice about booking my annual trip. The major cost of the trip isn’t actually the ticket or pass. It’s lodging.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
Ski Areas Association New Zealand (SAANZ) has shared its coronavirus-mitigating operations protocols so that resorts worldwide can benefit from the group's work.

You can see it here.
 

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