So what's going to happen next season?

[Christy]

Without adequate testing and tracing, all of the re-opening and loosening of regulations depends upon responsible public behavior, and I feel like that's going to be our Achilles heel. Vermont is asking people to isolate for 14 days upon arrival or don't come. But we're certain to be flooded with weekend visitors from MA, NY, CT, and NJ beginning in a few weeks. People just genuinely don't think it's a big deal to pop up for a weekend of outdoor activity, and the problem is the aggregate impact of all of that travel. We can already see from nationwide cell phone tower data that even with tight restrictions, people are straying way too far from home for us to be able to make decisions based on state and local infection statistics.

The Murder Hornets may be our only hope of enforcing safe bahavior.

Isn't WA the only state with murder hornets so far? Sheesh. First in coronavirus, first in murder hornets. But good idea. I didn't realize we could use them to our advantage. Thinking about a trip to Mt Rainier this summer? Well, it's full of murder hornets*, good luck!

*not really

 

[Christy]

It's funny to read about people considering travel. We're still under a SAH order and not supposed to travel until July. Travel isn't well defined though. Will we be allowed to rent our regular cabin in the North Cascades for July 4th weekend? It's 4 hours from home. Not sure if the management company will cancel us or not. I absolutely don't want to be in the city for that weekend with our dog. Given that the big fireworks will be canceled I can only imagine that the neighborhoods are going to sound like a war zone.

 

[elemmac]

Pretty much every state in New England has this 14 day quarantine advisory in place if you are coming from out of state. I wonder what this does in all actuality for outdoor recreation though. I get it if people were going inside places, lodging, restaurants, etc. With all of that still closed though, if people are able to go in and out without gas and facilities, I don’t see it as detrimental personally.

I think one of the biggest problems is "14 day quarantine" is not really defined. Does this mean you cannot leave your house (second home) for 14 days? Or does this mean you cannot have contact with any other person (directly or indirectly) for 14 days? Personally, I think the latter...if you do not go to gas stations, grocery stores, sit on public benches, eat at public picnic tables, etc...in my eyes, you're fine. This lack of definition makes some people think isolated activity outside the home, hiking, mountain biking, etc., should be prohibited during quarantine.

But then....there are many people that are coming for weekends/day trips that are going to the local ice cream shop, getting take-out at a restaurant, stopping for gas, etc...That's where I draw the line on appropriate travel/behavior.

And of course, there are going to be the people who have live in those small New England towns who complain about tourists regardless...this has just given them an excuse to complain even more.

 

[elemmac]

And of course, there are going to be the people who have live in those small New England towns who complain about tourists regardless...this has just given them an excuse to complain even more.

And I'll add...I've been plenty guilty of this ^

The thought of minimal summer traffic, "normal" lines in our local grocery stores, no 1-2 hour wait to be seated at restaurants (if you don't have a reservation), actually being able to find a parking spot downtown or at the beach...it all sound pretty wonderful. But, I know tourism is a part of our community that we need to embrace to make our town function.

 

[MissySki]

I think one of the biggest problems is "14 day quarantine" is not really defined. Does this mean you cannot leave your house (second home) for 14 days? Or does this mean you cannot have contact with any other person (directly or indirectly) for 14 days? Personally, I think the latter...if you do not go to gas stations, grocery stores, sit on public benches, eat at public picnic tables, etc...in my eyes, you're fine. This lack of definition makes some people think isolated activity outside the home, hiking, mountain biking, etc., should be prohibited during quarantine.

But then....there are many people that are coming for weekends/day trips that are going to the local ice cream shop, getting take-out at a restaurant, stopping for gas, etc...That's where I draw the line on appropriate travel/behavior.

And of course, there are going to be the people who have live in those small New England towns who complain about tourists regardless...this has just given them an excuse to complain even more.

I’m pretty sure in RI at one point anyway (they kind of went back and forth on things when people flipped out about the profiling of NYers, so not sure where it landed) people were told to stay inside period for 14 days upon arriving. You are supposed to act as if you are infected, which would put you inside regardless of whether you were around people or not I guess. At one point they were also going to track these people and you could face fines/jail time for noncompliance. I have no idea if these restrictions were ever enforced as there was a big uproar about people knocking on the doors of second home owners in some communities to tell them they had to quarantine etc.

I agree with your sentiments on not having an issue if people are self contained for supplies on their in and out travel and then not having contact with people during recreation. I have personally gotten take out in RI, along with curbside pickup at a dairy farm. It was all contactless pickups where you order and pay over the phone and then the employee puts stuff in your trunk. You don’t get out of your car at all, they don’t come near you or you them, and they are still wearing masks and gloves. However, with how close my town is to RI, and no stark difference between infection rate or medical facility availability, along with the fact that I’ve been quarantining extensively at home anyway, I feel okay about that. I would not feel the same if heading north because it’s a different set of circumstances in relation to medical facilities and infection rates.

On the ice cream front, I haven’t been yet, but one of my favorite ice cream stands near home just opened last week. They have a whole system where you don’t get out of your car at all to order, pay, and pickup your ice cream. You also have to wear a mask. I haven’t gone yet because I figured this seemed like a frivolous nonessential activity that wasn’t worth the risk, but I’ve read all very positive reviews about the experience and everyone adhering to safe practices so I may need to go by at some point!

 

[MissySki]

And I'll add...I've been plenty guilty of this ^

The thought of minimal summer traffic, "normal" lines in our local grocery stores, no 1-2 hour wait to be seated at restaurants (if you don't have a reservation), actually being able to find a parking spot downtown or at the beach...it all sound pretty wonderful. But, I know tourism is a part of our community that we need to embrace to make our town function.

That makes sense though, I think everyone feels that way at one time or another in touristy places. I just don’t think it’ll actually happen without a legit shutdown of borders where people can’t get in. Which seems unlikely at this point if it hasn’t happened already.

 

[elemmac]

I have personally gotten take out in RI, along with curbside pickup at a dairy farm. It was all contactless pickups where you order and pay over the phone and then the employee puts stuff in your trunk. You don’t get out of your car at all, they don’t come near you or you them, and they are still wearing masks and gloves. However, with how close my town is to RI, and no stark difference between infection rate or medical facility availability, along with the fact that I’ve been quarantining extensively at home anyway, I feel okay about that. I would not feel the same if heading north because it’s a different set of circumstances in relation to medical facilities and infection rates.

I definitely get this and have a similar thoughts about people that live right on the border...I've gotten take-out in Maine, as well as gone to the butcher shop there. I also can understand your sentiment about "heading north"...I feel the same about going south. I feel very differently about going south (or people coming up from the south for take-out, shopping, etc), than I do about heading north (or people coming from the north). I'm in this limbo-zone that is between very few cases northbound (York County 210) and many cases southbound (Essex County 10,000+).

On the ice cream front, I haven’t been yet, but one of my favorite ice cream stands near home just opened last week. They have a whole system where you don’t get out of your car at all to order, pay, and pickup your ice cream. You also have to wear a mask. I haven’t gone yet because I figured this seemed like a frivolous nonessential activity that wasn’t worth the risk, but I’ve read all very positive reviews about the experience and everyone adhering to safe practices so I may need to go by at some point!

It's interesting to hear this compared to what I witnessed last weekend in NH. We passed by an ice cream stand that had quite a few people standing and ordering at the windows. Lines were spaced out with people 6 ft apart....but very different than what you describe.

 

[MissySki]

It's interesting to hear this compared to what I witnessed last weekend in NH. We passed by an ice cream stand that had quite a few people standing and ordering at the windows. Lines were spaced out with people 6 ft apart....but very different than what you describe.

I’m not sure that all ice cream stands are doing the same in MA, but this one in particular gets very very crowded and has a large number of walk up windows. There wouldn’t be enough room to line up in front of them 6 feet apart easily with how many people show up there when the weather is nice. So I appreciate that they have come up with a way to keep people in their cars. You also can’t stay there to consume your food even in your car because they need the parking lot space for the “drive through” service model.

 

[elemmac]

New Zealand got the green light from the government to open up this year:
https://www.snowsbest.com/new-zealand-resorts-go-ahead/

Also an interesting article about a "ski bubble" between Australia, New Zealand and Asia for next (Northern Hemisphere) winter.
https://skiasia.com/news/covid-19-travel-bubble-could-open-up-travel-between-australia-nz-and-asia/

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

’m not sure that all ice cream stands are doing the same in MA, but this one in particular gets very very crowded and has a large number of walk up windows.

There is one in my town that normally has a takeout window and it is functioning normally (meaning you go to the window and place your order) however if you are waiting then people are spacing out 6 feet apart etc.
I know of another one that is nowhere near me, but I like to drive to anyway that says they have a line of cars and then they direct you to park in a space in the parking lot and you get out and go to the window to order and then a separate cashier to pay. I haven't been anywhere for ice cream yet, as I'm not currently eating anything from outside the house that I can't re-heat/cook the heck out of, but hopefully later this summer if the number of cases drop I can start going for ice cream. I'm a huge consumer of ice cream--it's one of my favorite things to do in the summer; I drive to all my favorite stands.

 

[Christy]

I think one of the biggest problems is "14 day quarantine" is not really defined. Does this mean you cannot leave your house (second home) for 14 days? Or does this mean you cannot have contact with any other person (directly or indirectly) for 14 days? Personally, I think the latter...if you do not go to gas stations, grocery stores, sit on public benches, eat at public picnic tables, etc...in my eyes, you're fine. This lack of definition makes some people think isolated activity outside the home, hiking, mountain biking, etc., should be prohibited during quarantine.

But then....there are many people that are coming for weekends/day trips that are going to the local ice cream shop, getting take-out at a restaurant, stopping for gas, etc...That's where I draw the line on appropriate travel/behavior.

And of course, there are going to be the people who have live in those small New England towns who complain about tourists regardless...this has just given them an excuse to complain even more.

The NE states aren't defining "quarantine"? The only one I've looked at was Alaska's, and it's clearly defined. You go to your place of quarantine and don't leave, or have contact with anyone, for 14 days, except in case of medical emergency.

 

[elemmac]

The NE states aren't defining "quarantine"?

I probably should have stated that a bit differently...someone is defining it, albeit sometimes vaguely, but it’s the general public thats interpreting it.

In some cases you really need to dig to figure out what the definition is...I just tried to dig up what Maine’s rules are, and it’s vaguely written in a few news articles, but I couldn’t really find anything solid. The original order stated that you could engage in “essential services”, and essential services was grocery shopping, then the order extension came out and it seems a bit more stringent saying you need to be prepared to stay inside for the 14 days.

 

[MissySki]

I probably should have stated that a bit differently...someone is defining it, albeit sometimes vaguely, but it’s the general public thats interpreting it.

In some cases you really need to dig to figure out what the definition is...I just tried to dig up what Maine’s rules are, and it’s vaguely written in a few news articles, but I couldn’t really find anything solid. The original order stated that you could engage in “essential services”, and essential services was grocery shopping, then the order extension came out and it seems a bit more stringent saying you need to be prepared to stay inside for the 14 days.

Well in RI they mentioned it again today, as they are set to reopen this weekend. However, they only mentioned the requirement for those coming to stay in RI from out of state. Anyone traveling to RI by any mode of transportation from anywhere domestically or internationally who wants to stay (i.e. in a second home) needs to quarantine for 14 days as soon as you arrive. That is very specific, great! Here's the part they don't address, what about those coming in for the day??? Like those of us in MA. Not sure if this is purposely being left out and vague, but in the news conference today there was no mention of it, at least from what I heard. I didn't get to listen until the end where the media can ask questions though. It would certainly be a question I'd ask..

 

[Jilly]

Ontario it's 14 days on your property with no visitors close. If you're getting a delivery, you need to be inside.

 

[elemmac]

Relevant to the conversation going on here...

Smartphone data shows out-of-state visitors flocked to Georgia as restaurants and other businesses reopened

 

[vickie]

Isn't WA the only state with murder hornets so far? Sheesh. First in coronavirus, first in murder hornets. But good idea. I didn't realize we could use them to our advantage. Thinking about a trip to Mt Rainier this summer? Well, it's full of murder hornets*, good luck!

*not really

And now ... non-native gypsy moths!

 

[snowski/swimmouse]

Listen @Christy & @vickie ! If either of you share your pests, I will send you our huge kamikaze mosquitoes that are biggest and healthiest ever thanks to the months of heavy rain and wind (many tornadoes, too) here in SC that have enabled them to reproduce and flourish since 2020 began!!!


from an excessively feasted upon mouse

 

[Christy]

And now ... non-native gypsy moths!

Hadn't heard about that. Great.

To be fair, we're the biggest US exporter to China. I wonder what unwanted species we're sending there.

 

[Jenny]

Listen @Christy & @vickie ! If either of you share your pests, I will send you our huge kamikaze mosquitoes that are biggest and healthiest ever thanks to the months of heavy rain and wind (many tornadoes, too) here in SC that have enabled them to reproduce and flourish since 2020 began!!!


from an excessively feasted upon mouse

Gypsy moths are a lot closer than CO or WA. And we have the mosquitos, too. And black flies, in the UP, at least.

The murder hornets can just stay right where they are!

Wonder which would win between murder hornets and killer bees?

 

[Christy]

Hawaii is making it VERY clear what the quarantine means, and they are arresting people who disobey.

Hotels are being told to issue room keys that are only operable for checking in, so that when guests leave the room they have to go to the front desk to ask for a new one — a signal they have left their room in violation of the quarantine, said Mufi Hannemann, president and CEO of Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association.

When travelers arrive, officials verify their accommodation arrangements by contacting hotels directly and giving them a heads up that a visitor has arrived, the state said. Call center workers from the Hawaii Visitors and Convention Bureau and the Hawaii Tourism Authority follow-up numerous time to verify travelers are in quarantine. When call center workers can’t contact someone, they alert law enforcement.