Skier31
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
She told me she was worried that I would be overwhelmed. I told her I would let her know if I was overwhelmed. It got better and she started teaching more.
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Skiing Well and Skiing Bumps
- Thread starter SallyCat
- Start date
She told me she was worried that I would be overwhelmed. I told her I would let her know if I was overwhelmed. It got better and she started teaching more.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Kinda funny - having met you, you don't seem like the type to be easily overwhelmed ;-)
Kimmyt
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@RachelV and I shared a private at Crested Butte and the first part of the lesson was the teacher trying to figure out what type of learners we are. Which, in hindsight, we were not very well matched in that regards (Rachel and I) as she is a technical verbal learner and I am more of a 'by feel' learner. He did a pretty good job of teaching us both in our own style. But, I will say that being a 'feeler' makes it really challenging to get a good lesson because basically an instructor has to throw a bunch of drills at me and see what one sets off the 'ah hah' moment, and you never know which one will do it.
Skisailor
Angel Diva
Agree with so much of this!
I think so many instructors need to up their game on explaining exactly HOW to do something - what body part to move! I get frustrated in clinics frequently (then have to go back to Ursula to straighten me out - LOL).
The direction given is often confusing or unclear. I remember an instructor saying "the hip lifts and is higher in this part of the turn". And I'm thinking "the hip lifts? Say what? Hips don't make that movement"! I realized that what he was really doing was unbending his knee to make the hip rise. It was a knee movement!! No wonder everyone was confused. But I see problem this over and over again with ski instruction. The "how" is either confused or missing altogether.
I also understand that different people learn differently, but my experience in teaching so far, is that we are mostly all some combination of thinkers, watchers, doers and feelers.
There are always exceptions. But I think most people want to be told and then shown what to do. Then they want to try it themselves with feedback. And once the instructor validates that it's the right movement, they can THEN figure out how that movement "feels" to them so that they can reproduce it.
Skipping steps - like going right to how something feels may work out ok for some people, but not for most in my experience. And then there is the all important WHY we want to make a certain movement the way we do. When you give a student that information, you allow them to be creative with their own body and movement patterns because they understand the ultimate goal they are trying to achieve.
So I get frustrated when our supervisors complain about instructors talking too much. Just keep 'em moving, they say. Mileage is great - when it's appropriate. But explanation and understanding are key. These people are paying for my expertise! They can practice on their own time.
I would urge anyone taking a lesson to ask their instructors exactly WHAT to do. If you are not sure, make them explain which body part to move and HOW to move it. And don't be afraid to ask WHY they want you to do what you are doing! A good instructor should have no trouble answering these kinds of questions.
I think so many instructors need to up their game on explaining exactly HOW to do something - what body part to move! I get frustrated in clinics frequently (then have to go back to Ursula to straighten me out - LOL).
The direction given is often confusing or unclear. I remember an instructor saying "the hip lifts and is higher in this part of the turn". And I'm thinking "the hip lifts? Say what? Hips don't make that movement"! I realized that what he was really doing was unbending his knee to make the hip rise. It was a knee movement!! No wonder everyone was confused. But I see problem this over and over again with ski instruction. The "how" is either confused or missing altogether.
I also understand that different people learn differently, but my experience in teaching so far, is that we are mostly all some combination of thinkers, watchers, doers and feelers.
There are always exceptions. But I think most people want to be told and then shown what to do. Then they want to try it themselves with feedback. And once the instructor validates that it's the right movement, they can THEN figure out how that movement "feels" to them so that they can reproduce it.
Skipping steps - like going right to how something feels may work out ok for some people, but not for most in my experience. And then there is the all important WHY we want to make a certain movement the way we do. When you give a student that information, you allow them to be creative with their own body and movement patterns because they understand the ultimate goal they are trying to achieve.
So I get frustrated when our supervisors complain about instructors talking too much. Just keep 'em moving, they say. Mileage is great - when it's appropriate. But explanation and understanding are key. These people are paying for my expertise! They can practice on their own time.
I would urge anyone taking a lesson to ask their instructors exactly WHAT to do. If you are not sure, make them explain which body part to move and HOW to move it. And don't be afraid to ask WHY they want you to do what you are doing! A good instructor should have no trouble answering these kinds of questions.
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is a great point. Especially for people who, due to congenital issues or simply due to the accumulated effects of time and injuries, may have limited mobility in certain body parts.
SnowHot
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That happens more than you know. A skilled instructor can (and should) kill it with a variety.
While doing ESA I was always amazed at how coaches like Bob Barnes, Annie Black, Squatty, Charlie.... All excellent at teaching a mish mash of students.
Jenny
Angel Diva
And this is why you can teach me!
newboots
Angel Diva
UGH!
I've had experiences like this in exercise classes and I've actually gotten injured, trying to lift my hip or whatever it was. I ended up with a muscle in spasm. I know I'm a klutz, but it's hard for me to translate words to physical movements, and it can be a real problem.
Grumble.
There's a great instructor at Berkshire East, Jane, who is intuitive and only talks a very little. I don't know how she taught me, but it worked really well. Show me, watch me, tweak something. Perfect.
mustski
Angel Diva
One of my frustrations has always been the inability to see myself and correct the movement. I think it comes from so much theater time spent in front of mirrors. I really NEED a visual. I even needed a mirror when giving birth - seriously. I couldn't push in the right spot unless I had a mirror to visualize and watch myself push. They brought in a mirror and I popped that baby right out. I know I drive ski instructors crazy. They ask me to do something and I think I AM doing it. Then I see video and YIKES! I guess I need a ski slope with mirrors.
echo_VT
Angel Diva
this is so interesting.
@mustski you need someone to video you!
@Skisailor thanks for that breakdown i want to do this.
i have to read the rest of this thread...!
@mustski you need someone to video you!
@Skisailor thanks for that breakdown i want to do this.
i have to read the rest of this thread...!
SkiBam
Angel Diva
I totally agree. Much of my ski improvement has come by seeing myself on video. As an instructor, I know what it SHOULD look like and can see I'm not doing it! Same with golf, which (silly me perhaps) I've taken up in my old age. Thoroughly enjoying it and this year am seeing some improvement. Lessons are great, but most useful is videoing my swing (I just set my phone up on the side of the house and video myself over and over). I could swear I'm doing a particular thing with my arm, but the video shows I am not doing it at all. So, a huge help to have a visual.
W8N2SKI
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
LOL. Come ski in the mid-Atlantic. We have plenty of glare ice you could use.
I do know what you mean, though. Video is invaluable.
marzNC
Angel Diva
It's been a year, but there is a lot of good info in this thread for people who are interested in taking their skiing to the next level by improving on bumps, which really means getting more comfortable on ungroomed terrain in general. Even if that means a groomer in the afternoon after the snow has been pushed around into lots of little piles.
melchap
Certified Ski Diva
As a bump devotee this quote has always made me smile.
This quote came about from Josh Matta debating other ego driven male devotees of craving..ergo conflict.
One time Josh quoted me when I mentioned my dog loves to ski the mogul runs when we ski tour.
I love bumps! They are my passion. I have a pink helmet and keep my hair long enough to see my braid while skiing so I can ski the bumps under the chair and let everyone know I'm a girl. (I like to show off/ or confidence?)
Using the right style of skiing in the bumps makes a big difference. No carving, short turns, chest and hips squarely downhill and ridiculously short poles. I never understood why people say bumps are hard on the knees, I have a knee that hurts but not while or from skiing bumps.
To me the zipper line is the most beautiful way to dance with the mountain. I can squiggle and touch as much of the mountain as I possibly can vs carving which to me is glossing over all the intricate microterrain on the slope. And mogul skiing is the ultimate exhausting workout (a plus in my book). It takes so much energy to zipperline I'm sure all the people at the lift line are wondering why I'm breathing like I just run an 800m race (something I know).
Article/interview with Glen Plake: Can You Ski 25 Straight Mogul Laps? https://www.powder.com/stories/interviews/can-you-ski-25-laps-of-moguls-like-glen-plake/
At first bumps runs seem to have no places to turn, so you shop, eventually you learn to turn in friendly spots, and ultimately you'll find you can turn where ever you want.
P.s Backcountry moguls are something special.
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Skisailor
Angel Diva
As a bump devotee this quote has always made me smile.
This quote came about from Josh Matta debating other ego driven male devotees of craving..ergo conflict.
One time Josh quoted me when I mentioned my dog loves to ski the mogul runs when we ski tour.
I love bumps! They are my passion. I have a pink helmet and keep my hair long enough to see my braid while skiing so I can ski the bumps under the chair and let everyone know I'm a girl. (I like to show off/ or confidence?)
Using the right style of skiing in the bumps makes a big difference. No carving, short turns, chest and hips squarely downhill and ridiculously short poles. I never understood why people say bumps are hard on the knees, I have a knee that hurts but not while or from skiing bumps.
To me the zipper line is the most beautiful way to dance with the mountain. I can squiggle and touch as much of the mountain as I possibly can vs carving which to me is glossing over all the intricate microterrain on the slope. And mogul skiing is the ultimate exhausting workout (a plus in my book). It takes so much energy to zipperline I'm sure all the people at the lift line are wondering why I'm breathing like I just run an 800m race (something I know).
Article/interview with Glen Plake: Can You Ski 25 Straight Mogul Laps? https://www.powder.com/stories/interviews/can-you-ski-25-laps-of-moguls-like-glen-plake/
At first bumps runs seem to have no places to turn, so you shop, eventually you learn to turn in friendly spots, and ultimately you'll find you can turn where ever you want.
P.s Backcountry moguls are something special.
I love that you ski it under the chair with braid flying! Woo hoo!
Mogul skiing does require more flexion and extension - use of the large muscle groups - than goomer skiing, so it definitely can "warm you up". And zipper line is the most muscularly taxing of the bump techniques, especially at speed. BUT . . . I STILL contend that bump skiing - even in the zipper line does not have to be a heartrate raising work out. If that's how it feels - tiring - legs burning - breathing hard . . . etc. etc. you need to get more ahead of your skis. You are too far back too much of the time. Don't use a vertical back with pumping legs like the competition bump skiers! They only have to last for a minute and they train all year for this!
Well - you don't have to do this. Some people LIKE making it a workout and that's part of the fun.
But I want to make sure aspiring bump skiers know that it truly does not have to be.That said, my favorite thing in bumps is variety - not zipper. The freedom and feeling of flowing through the bumps making a whole variety of (mostly) short and medium turns, and then a long radius turn banking off the backside of a few moguls that suddenly appear and are lined up perfectly! The fun sensations. The mental puzzle. The feeling that you are keeping up mentally with the terrain so that you CAN keep going and going while others have to stop and breathe.
LKillick
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is a super super helpful thread.
Had a rough day today on a little PA mountain where the groomers were sliced up enough to form moguls on day 1 of the local season. Definitely was not feeling great about myself and my skills, was near tears even on blue runs when I can confidently ski groomed blacks normally. It was not pretty. Kept finding myself in the back seat and all over the place.
Wasn't quite sure where to think about beginning (aside from some specialized off-piste/bumps instruction), but this thread is a fantastic start. Thanks to all the contributors!
Had a rough day today on a little PA mountain where the groomers were sliced up enough to form moguls on day 1 of the local season. Definitely was not feeling great about myself and my skills, was near tears even on blue runs when I can confidently ski groomed blacks normally. It was not pretty. Kept finding myself in the back seat and all over the place.
Wasn't quite sure where to think about beginning (aside from some specialized off-piste/bumps instruction), but this thread is a fantastic start. Thanks to all the contributors!
marzNC
Angel Diva
Messy snow conditions are very different than a nicely groomed surface. Just as skiing with good visibility vs heavy fog is very different. It gets easier in time, but can take a lot of mileage and experience. Of course, getting experience is hard to do on short slopes.
What type of turns do you like to make most of the time? Carving turns or ?
