Skiing Well and Skiing Bumps

[SallyCat]

This is probably a well-trodden cliche to most of you, but it's new to me. I saw this statement recently:

"It's not that you can't ski bumps. It's that you can't ski and the bumps just prove it."

I'm curious as to what veteran skiers make of this; is it essentially true? Or is bump skiing a distinct, or somewhat distinct, skill set? I'm planning to make an effort to learn bump skiing a tiny bit this year. Maybe I should hold off until my overall skills improve? Or maybe trying to ski bumps will reveal my weaknesses and help make me a better overall skier if I can achieve some mogul competence.

'Tis the season for meandering through ski forums, after all, since there's time to linger on philosophical questions while waiting for the temps to drop. And as Dog as my witness I do not want to grade these student essays until tomorrow.

 

[Kimmyt]

I think that it is, to some extent, true. A good skier should be able to get down a field of bumps and look fairly decent while doing so. That being said, you can still be a good skier and not be able to zipper line an Olympic bump course as that is a very specific type of bump skiing.

I think bump skiing can be very very very beneficial for advanced intermediates. It requires many of the skills that skiing ungroomed steeps and trees requires. The ability to be nimble on your skis, make minute adjustments of weight and speed and pressure, decisionmaking and routefinding as well as the ability to deal with last minute changes in terrain/conditions etc. If you are comfortable on blue and easy black runs, I think bump skiing is a great way to improve your skills.

 

[Skisailor]

Well . . . I would say it's a particularly judgmental and testosterony way of saying something which contains a bit of truth. I mean - some folks may not WANT to ski bumps and can competently cruise on groomed terrain and have all the fun they want. Would I personally say "they can't ski". No.

But I believe it IS true that you can competently cruise groomed terrain without really owning all of skiing's fundamental skills. And that's not really possible in the bumps.

Would you say that someone who hits awesome ground strokes, but doesn't know the skills which allow then to serve or volley, "can't play tennis"? Depends on that person's goals I guess.

The thing is - we are talking about some of the fundamental skiing skills here. It's not like you can just get really good at doing whatever you do on the groomed and that will suddenly allow you to competently ski the bumps.

There are new fundamentals to learn and perfect.

So - if you love skiing and want to learn all of its fundamentals - which will, in turn, open up more terrain to you - like bumps and trees and powder - then go for it!

I would suggest a bump-specific lesson.
There are some people who can just throw themselves into bumps and flounder around long enough to eventually figure it out. But I think most people benefit from learning the necessary skills in groomed terrain first - with an instructor.

 

[Skier31]

You can get away with things on groomers that you can't get away with in bumps. I agree with Skisailor. Take a lesson! There are different ways to ski bumps and some are easier than others. There is no time like the present!

I don't know where you ski but finding small bumps at first or runs where half the run is groomed and the other half bumps so you have a way out is a good way to get started.

 

[Jilly]

It's not a different skill set, it's the skills done differently. Bumps require balance, fore and aft a long with the lateral. Edging skills are not as prevalent as cruising the groomer. And steering is a necessity. You can't just tip and ride in the bumps.

Take a lesson on beginner bumps. And you won't start in the bumps. Any that I have taken, we started with short radius turns and worked our way up.

 

[marzNC]

The reason I decided it was worth learning to ski bumps in the last ten years is that the skills needed also apply when skiing trees. The reason I wanted to be better at skiing trees out west is that . . . there is powder to be found in trees a day or two after a powder storm even at places overrun with powder hounds like Alta and Snowbird. Plus my ski buddies like to ski bumps. Not talking about zipper-line bumps. Just general ungroomed terrain that's had enough traffic to have formed bumps.

Somewhere there was a progression that looked something like this.

* Easy bumps: not too big, not steep at all
* Medium bumps: more variety in shape/size, not too steep
* Harder bumps: bigger bumps, steeper terrain
* Easy trees: widely spaced, not particularly steep
* Medium trees: not too tightly spaced
* Harder trees: less space between trees, steeper terrain

Obviously varies a lot between ski areas. The hardest type of bumps to find are the medium or intermediate bumps that are good for learning technique. I remember @snoWYmonkey noting that intermediate bumps are hard to find at Jackson Hole. During a lesson, she showed us some baby bumps (small and not steep at all) that only allowed 3-4 turns before you were through them.

I discovered that the seeded bumps at Massanutten were more than enough to practice. At least after having a lesson or two with my coach who knew exactly how to use them for basic skills like extension and absorption. I had even more appreciation of the possibilities after watching him and other PSIA Level 3 instructor in a clinic. The trainer asked them to do some things that looked really easy when he did it. But most of the instructors couldn't quite replicate his skills.

One reason it's easier to learn bump technique at Taos is that there are bumps everywhere that range from easy to extremely hard. Lots of little sections just off groomers to practice 5-6 turns too.

 

[marzNC]

In PA, the places I've been with bump runs good for learning are Whitetail, Roundtop, and Elk. Haven't been to Liberty or Montage yet. Don't really think of Belleayre as a place to find bumps, although there is some tree skiing.

Plattekill is a wonderful place for bumps. There are a couple 1000 ft trails where one side is groomed and the other is left natural.

Might find some useful advice here:
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/bump-skiing-clinics-advice.20950/

 

[marzNC]

Occurred to me that if the goal is steep trees for powder more than bumps on more challenging terrain, then the progression is probably:

* Easy bumps: not too big, not steep at all
* Medium bumps: more variety in shape/size, not too steep
* Easy trees: widely spaced, not particularly steep
* Medium trees: not too tightly spaced
* Harder trees: less space between trees, steeper terrain

 

[SallyCat]

Thanks, everyone, this is all really interesting! I will definitely take a lesson. If I can become even moderately competent in small bumps, that would be a huge breakthrough for me.

 

[bounceswoosh]

During a lesson, she showed us some baby bumps (small and not steep at all) that only allowed 3-4 turns before you were through them.

A lot of trails also have a groomer on one side, bumps on the other. You can "dip into" the bumps as many turns as you'd like. It's a good way to practice without committing.

@SallyCat -

I do think there's a lot of truth to that quote, which I suspect was coined by Josh Matta, who went by a number of usernames on Epic. I expand it to literally everything in skiing.

* It's not that you can't ski breakable crust; it's that you can't ski, and the breakable crust proves it
* It's not that you can't ski ice; it's that you can't ski, and the ice proves it
* It's not that you can't ski powder; it's that you can't ski, and the powder proves it
* It's not that you can't ski on one ski; it's that you can't ski, and the drill proves it
... etc

@Skisailor is right that it's a particularly harsh formulation - Josh is known for his harsh statements, which he would characterize as simple fact - but I've loved that quote since I first saw it several years ago. It speaks to me. A different way to say it, a kinder way, would be, "If you're struggling with a particular task or terrain in skiing, it's because that task or terrain is exposing a weakness in your skiing technique." But that's a bit less pithy.

I don't know if this is a helpful analogy at all, but there's a programmer joke that goes - "Every program has at least one bug. Therefore, every program can be reduced to one line of code that doesn't work." When you "can't ski X," it demonstrates that you need to "rewrite" the part of your skiing related to X. It's actually a helpful diagnostic.

So, my answer to your original post:

I'm curious as to what veteran skiers make of this; is it essentially true? Or is bump skiing a distinct, or somewhat distinct, skill set? I'm planning to make an effort to learn bump skiing a tiny bit this year. Maybe I should hold off until my overall skills improve? Or maybe trying to ski bumps will reveal my weaknesses and help make me a better overall skier if I can achieve some mogul competence.

It's essentially true. Bump skiing does not require different physical skills, although there are *tactics* that you can learn that will help you see the line you want to ski. But bump skiing will reveal weaknesses in your skills, as you suggested. Improving in the bumps will improve your groomer skiing, and vice versa. I don't think you need to hold off at all, unless you freeze up to the point where even with an instructor coaching/coaxing you, you can't force yourself to make a turn in the bumps. As others have posted upthread - if you want to learn bumps, the instructor shouldn't start you in the bumps. You'll be spending an awful lot of time doing short radius turns, and especially brushed short radius turns (as opposed to carving). You can work on this on your own, too.

There are a lot of discussions on bump technique in the archives here, although I don't know how searchable they are. It's useful to know that there are TONS of ways to ski the bumps, and one is no more or less "legit" than the others (unless you happen to be a pro bump competitor. But those bumps are seeded, which is completely different from bumps "in the raw").

I still have a lot to work on in bumps. They're the gift that keeps on giving ;-)

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

* It's not that you can't ski breakable crust; it's that you can't ski, and the breakable crust proves it
* It's not that you can't ski ice; it's that you can't ski, and the ice proves it
* It's not that you can't ski powder; it's that you can't ski, and the powder proves it
* It's not that you can't ski on one ski; it's that you can't ski, and the drill proves it
... etc

Don't forget crud.

Here is a nicer version: "Crud will highlight the areas you need to work on"

https://www.youtube.com/embed/pGcfhXPNuPo

"Every program has at least one bug. Therefore, every program can be reduced to one line of code that doesn't work."

Unless you call it a "feature"...

 

[bounceswoosh]

Here is a nicer version: "Crud will highlight the areas you need to work on"

https://www.youtube.com/embed/pGcfhXPNuPo

Nice video! Good skiing!

Seems to me that he's dragging his back pole (ie, allow his uphill hand to get dragged back, which makes it harder to initiate the next turn). I wonder how he'd do with shorter poles ...

 

[CarverJill]

So I grew up skiing in the easy and while I loved "mogul trails" as a kid I never learned to properly get down them. I even dated a guy who loved the bumps and had the Rossi mogul skis but never learned them. Fast forward to 2009 or so and I decided that I wanted to get to be a better skier. Bumps, trees and powder were my goals. I have worked a lot at them and can get through them but still have a long way to go. Some others here may disagree with my claimed abilities.

I disagree with the initial statement you posted @SallyCat . I think you can be a good skiier and not do well in bumps. There are lots of different types of skiers out there, not everyone is good at everything, However to be able to consider myself an advanced skier I would like to be better at the bumps (as well as powder and trees). Getting there slowly......

So yeah I basically agree with what everyone else has said here. If you are tackling them earlier in your skiing career I think you are ahead of the game!

 

[VickiK]

Tackle them before knee issues make you cringe at the thought of tackling them.

 

[Skisailor]

Tackle them before knee issues make you cringe at the thought of tackling them.

I'm glad someone brought this up. I think this is a common misconception. People may get this idea from competition bump skiing - huge tight bumps skied with a vertical back and knees pumping. But bump skiing doesn't need to be hard on your knees . . . or any other body part for that matter! The right technique and strategy allows you to flow through the bumps pretty effortlessly and as slowly as you want to. And it's fun!

I think I've told this story elsewhere. But I remember during the season while I was still recuperating from my broken ankle, and the docs had told me "no bumps yet". I was taking a few runs with Ursula toward the end of the day and where did she go? Right to a run called Tango Trees. It's a gladed blue run - bumpy at the time. And I protested "but I'm not supposed to ski bumps!" "We aren't skiing the bumps" she replied. "Just follow me."

So I followed, matching her turn for turn. And we flowed effortlessly down that run. Not a single shock to any joint.

It's all about technique.

 

[bounceswoosh]

So I followed, matching her turn for turn. And we flowed effortlessly down that run. Not a single shock to any joint.

It's all about technique.

And line choice, which is a big part of what I get out of following someone!

There's one particular instructor - when I follow him in the bumps, it's like skiing a groomer. Then I cam never find that line on my own.

 

[altagirl]

Not only that, but "bumps" is pretty vague. They can be little or giant, good snow or ice, good coverage or sticks and rocks in the middle of the troughs (that can come into view as you get to them), and a nice flow to them or a pattern that makes you wonder what has been going on. Pitch is different too, and sometimes steep bumps can feel easier than less steep ones... go figure.

So to me, there are some bumps that feel easy and others are awful.

 

[Skier31]

You can ski bumps with minimal impact on your knees. It's all about the line!

I have been in lessons where we ski one bump at a time, then two bumps at a time. This slows everything down and helps people learn the line without gathering too much speed.

Also, a good way to practice is to find runs that have lots of piles of snow after being skied. You can practice skiing the piles. Bumps do require that you turn in certain places while groomers do not.

 

[bounceswoosh]

It's all about the line!

The instructor I mentioned above is Yogi - I'm sure you know him! He makes even Devil's Crotch feel like nothing's there.

 

[Skier31]

The instructor I mentioned above is Yogi - I'm sure you know him! He makes even Devil's Crotch feel like nothing's there.

It is amazing. When I ski behind Bags, it feels the same. He takes the bumps out of the bumps.

Skiing behind someone gives you confidence that you can do it which has helped me tremendously. I like skiing the same run over and over so I can learn the terrain.