Skiing Powder

[Sheena]

I had an opportunity to ski powder this weekend. I have practiced in about 6-7in of powder, and that was fun, but Sunday I had my first real taste of deep stuff. I was slightly less than successful, and sad that I had to traverse out until I got to some of the untracked stuff.

Does anyone have tips for skiing powder? Ideas for where to start?

I sort of was thinking I should practice first skiing consistently aggressively down the fall line on all terrain, and then once I master that, then focus on skiing powder. Or perhaps, follow my husbands advice, and just keep trying powder, and instead of trying to turn, just point my skis down hill and not worry so much about turning.

They have a good deal on womens specific lessons at Beaver Mt. every Wednesday, - $40 for an all day lesson and it includes breakfast. And I hope they eventually get some powder there to practice.

 

[abc]

The thing about powder is to foget all the "carving" stuff everyone learns lately!

I wish I'm kidding. But I broke down and took a powder lesson on a private. And basically I had to "un-learn" all those wide stance stuff. As soon as I close my knees, things start to fall into place... Oh yes, the "un-weighting to turn" also! All the "old" parallel technique with straight skis. Did you notice "powder skis" tend to have much less sidecut? ;)

That said, if there's a flaw in your basic technique, it'll get amplified.

 

[RachelV]

Yeah, I agree, forget everything you know about carving. I'm not a very good powder skier, but I feel like I finally started to "get it" last spring in Colorado.

So from someone in roughly the same position as you, my general tips would be:
- Stay in the fall line a lot more, yeah. Tips downhill. As soon as you try to bleed off speed the way you would on hardpack, you go right over.
- Feet closer together. Very close together.
- Don't even think about your edges.

Maybe someone who actually knows what they're talking about can give you some more specific tips. As soon as you make a few turns correctly, though, it's like a lightbulb goes off -- you'll feel it.

 

[altagirl]

See, I'd say feet apart as usual and use fat skis. And you definitely don't want your feet together once it's chopped. The only time I go with feet together is on breakable crust where you're hoping to stay on top.

But you do need more speed than usual, and don't even think about scrubbing speed like you would on a groomer. Powder skiing requires patience - you initiate the turn just like you would anywhere else, but you have to wait for it to happen. If you don't feel the turn happening yet and panic and try harder to turn - it won't work. So relax and let it happen.

To me the feeling is exactly like carving on a groomer, but with a time-delay and... floatiness. Like if you were carving, but through the air instead of on a hard surface. I'm not sure if that makes any sense until you feel it though.

The other thing to remember is that you're going to have to fight to keep your hands forward. You're probably not used to your poles getting dragged back behind you by the snow so you have to really focus on keeping your hands up and in front of you.

 

[tradygirl]

^^^that's actually a really good description, AG! I would add that a powder turn feels less like a turn and more like a dance. It feels like you're almost hopping from side to side instead of carving. When you hit the groove right, your turn almost pops you up out of the snow into your next one. And you have to constantly be throwing yourself down the fall line to keep your momentum. It should feel like a controlled fall. Speed is definitely your friend in deep snow.

And I have to say (perhaps to the chagrin of some of you teachers out there) that my technique changes a lot. I tend to sit back a little bit to keep my tips floating, and I allow my upper body to lean into my turn a little bit instead of the fall line since it helps me keep my momentum (although if your hips and shoulders even begin to turn perpendicular to the fall line, you're speed and rhythm are toast and you'll probably end up on your face). AG's definitely right about the hands...if you don't fight to keep them in front of you, they'll get dragged back so fast it'll throw you. I feel that feet apart is way more stable. More speed and fatter skis shoud help a lot of stability problems.

Oh another thing especially for Sheena....this weekend's storm was ridiculously deep. When you've got 3+ of new snow (and this storm was a little heavier than typical), it turns into more of a speed game than usual. If you couldn't get on a slope that was steeper than 35 degrees on Saturday, there was almost no way to even initiate a turn. We did a lot of straight-lining at Solitude since nothing steeper was open yet. You'll love it when you hit a 1-2 footer of Utah blower. It's the bomb-diggity.

 

[altagirl]

Yeah, there's definintely such a thing as too deep (for the terrain anyway). You also have to look way ahead when you're skiing deep powder - if you've got a flat runout you need to quit turning early and straightline it to hit the flat with enough speed to get across it. Some of that takes some experience to realize how much speed you're going to need and then the confidence to know that it's okay to go straight and fast.

And when you're in that straightline if you feel your tips going deeper - you've got to do that cardinal sin and lean back, pull up with your toes and fight to keep them from going deeper or you're going to start somersaulting or just get stuck. Mind you - it's not leaning back in your turns - when the terrain is steep enough to turn you want to be forward just like on regular snow.

Also, a tip if you do get stuck. Take both of your poles, make an X and grab them at the X and use it like a snowshoe so you can try to get more resistance to push against to stand yourself back up. Sometimes you have to do that, fill in the hole with more snow, do it again and you'll pack it down enough to have something to push against.

 

[Lori_K]

Sheena, are you having particular issues with the powder, or feeling things that aren't working? What kind of skis were you on?
Fat skis definitely help with the float. And deep powder does drag against your legs, so your legs may tire more quickly.

You can try playing with the powder on the edges of groomed runs. Try a moderate pitch slope that you are comfortable with, then pop in and out of the powder on the side. Feel how much it slows you down, but also feel how soft it is underneath your ski. In deep powder, turns and stops are in slow motion-- don't expect instant feedback from your skis or try to force a turn. Relax as much as possible. If you feel like you want to lean back while in powder, try lifting your toes instead (closing the ankles). This will have the same effect of bringing your ski tips up.

 

[Sheena]

Thanks for the input so far! I hope I have another chance to try some of these tips soon!

Lori: I guess I feel that things are just not working. (I was wearing my iM88s. Last season at the end of the season I did get the Heads out on some soft snow, and I got to experience bouncing on top of the soft snow for the first time. I had tried skiing some powder in October, but on a pair of Atomic Sugar Daddys, and when I skied down in those, the tips floated right out of the powder and it was pretty easy to initiate turns. Although, that was only about a foot of snow. )

Here is my whole painful story: When I dropped in to the slope at Alta (Ballroom), I started, then just tipped over. Got up pretty quickly, tried again and fell down again. I got myself up, after a bit of a struggle, because I had sunk down so far into the snow that I could not pick up my skis to get them both pointed in the same direction. I got myself up, but by that point, I was so mired down in the powder, I just would not go. This story sounds so painfully pathetic when I write it all down, but I really want to learn from my mistakes.... so I ended up losing my right ski, and then got that one unburied, and placed in someone else's track so it was "safe", and then had to really dig to get my down hill ski out. So as Tim describes it from his view at the bottom of the slope. "I stopped watching you for a while, and when I looked back up hill, I could not see you anymore, then all of a sudden I saw you pop up in a cloud of powder with a ski in your hand." Thankfully, I got the skis on really easily, and traversed out to the far skiers right where it was pretty tracked out and a bit easier to ski.

I am assuming I was off balance or too stiff or something, or maybe I tried to scrub speed or tried too hard to force a turn. Needless to say I was absolutely exhausted after all of that.

Tim has been trying to teach me, but for some reason it just has not stuck yet. Thankfully it really does not hurt to fall in powder.

 

[SnowHot]

I'm glad I read this, and hope to, someday, use these tips!

 

[altagirl]

Okay, so this was on Ballroom, right? I'm guessing you dropped in on the early part where it's least steep, shortly after you get out of the trees?

In snow that deep, you can barely turn on that slope. Seriously - I'd guess you were trying to make turns way too small/tight. (Which is totally normal - you get used to making turns appropriate to the steepness of the slope and have to learn to factor in the resistance from the powder too). When I ski that slope in that much snow - I might make three or four turns (not even turns - curves) down the entire thing. Maybe less in that much snow. Sometimes you drop in, realize you're not picking up enough speed and don't get to turn at all on something like that. (Same thing happens a lot when you hit deep powder on the side of a groomer).

When you drop in, into deep snow like that, you have to start by pointing your skis STRAIGHT downhill and letting them run until you get moving pretty good. (My guess would be that when you first dropped in off the traverse, you tried to turn immediately and fell over when you hit all the resistance from the snow. Again, that's totally normal - how often do you drop in on a slope like that and straightline? But that's what you need to do in deep snow.) So go straight downhill first, THEN start your turning motion, relax, and wait for it to happen. It's the same turning motion you'd do to start a turn on the groomer - then turn with just a touch more up and down rhythm to it. It just takes practice - you'll get a feel for how fast you need to be moving to try to turn, and then it gets a lot easier.

 

[Sheena]

Okay, so this was on Ballroom, right? I'm guessing you dropped in on the early part where it's least steep, shortly after you get out of the trees?

That is probably where I should have dropped in, but I traversed over to the slightly steeper bit where it was not so tracked out. After I dug myself out, I just traversed down and across to the part where it is least steep and from there semi-straightlined it out from there.

So many good tips here!!! thank you!

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Super Deeeeeep Powder....and no fat skis?

Sit back, skis closer together and tips up!

Then....just giggle and enjoy the ride! (Powder skiers DEFINITELY have an advantage if they learned how to ski "old school!"....carving just isn't possible!)

 

[Gloria]

Hey Sheena, do not get down on yourself for finding 3 feet of heavy snow challenging. It is, period. 97% of skiers who will tell you it isn't are lying. Keep getting after it, you are getting there.
I think all of the advice given so far is valid one thing I will add as a reminder ( for better or worse ) is the old addage: Make sure to "f" your turns, don't "sh" them. The reason I bring this up is women, because of our lower center of gravity have a natural tendency to stick our centers of gravity too far back in these situations. I don't know why, but alot of us do it, did it, it just comes natural to us. The reason you want to watch this is, when you are leaning back keeping your tips up, if your bum is behind dragging, you are essentially putting all of your weight on your knee ligaments and then trying to use them as a muscle to power through your turns. What you want to concentrate on when you shift your weight to the back seat is tucking your funny under you and getting it over your heels. This will effectively move your weight from your knees to your quads and hams instead. Once you combine this with the effect of letting your skis rip with the fall line a little, the turn becomes a redistribution of that weight on your quads into your foot with that hip tucked and following, rotating over that downhill heel as it turns. Make big turns and make sure you are getting those skiis fall line for a couple of seconds mid-turn. Refrain refrain refrain from turning them side ways. It will come together for you, just keep up the good work.

 

[Thatsagirl]

You will definitely need more speed in powder. It might seem scary not to turn right away, or not to turn so often, but try to relax and "feel" when the snow wants you to turn. As long as you stay in the fall line, your speed will stay consistent and you will stay in control.

I think it's worth playing with the width of your stance to see what's most comfortable for you. Even when I ski with my widest stance, it's still pretty narrow because I skied for 30 years before shaped skis were invented. Some of the ladies here prefer a narrow stance, some prefer a wide stance. I would say there is no "right or wrong" here, it's personal. And different skis might demand a different width stance.

I would encourage you not to lean back in powder. If you keep your arms foward enough so that you are in control, then your body will be pulled forward as well. It's about finding a balanced center. If you are too far forward, you'll tumble forward, if you are too far back, you'll go over backwards and very likely hurt yourself (probably knee injury but could be worse).

One of the drills that I was taught when I took a powder lesson: pretend you are standing on a ball and ROLL your knees. This way, you are centered and you aren't edging. Instead you are giving a light command to your skis to turn. Ever ride a horse? It's like that little signal from the reign that you give your horse to tell him what you want. Powder takes a light touch.

It will take practice. I agree that it's like a dance with the mountain. And once you get the "feeling" of floating down the mountain, you'll be able to know what made it work and your skills will build until you can make it down the entire slope. Don't be surprised if you have uncontrollable giggles when you suddenly get that "powder float feeling." :D

I always tell myself when I learn something new on skis--skiing powder, skiing crud, etc.--that for a little while, I'm going to feel like a beginner all over again. Tell yourself it's OK to feel like a beginner. Tell yourself it's OK to bail out and ski something easier to give your body and overworked brain a break. It will come to you.

Thatsagirl

 

[SnowHot]

I always tell myself when I learn something new on skis--skiing powder, skiing crud, etc.--that for a little while, I'm going to feel like a beginner all over again. Tell yourself it's OK to feel like a beginner. Tell yourself it's OK to bail out and ski something easier to give your body and overworked brain a break. It will come to you.

Thatsagirl

Does this mean you' won't laugh too hard when I suck at Stowe this weekend?

Please tell me you're going to make it!

 

[ski diva]

Two words: Fat skis.

 

[lil mountain girl]

first of all, i LOVE your description, altagirl . . . i think i actually drooled a little on the keyboard just thinking of those floaty-lovely turns . . . yummmmm!

ok, i'll try not to repeat all the great advice already given . . . but here are a few tips i find helpful.

keep in mind that i grew up skiing here in the selkirk mountains of bc and i have some of the skinniest skis in the lift line.

this is proof that although fat skis help (and rock!), you don't necessarily need them to enjoy pow and ski well in it.

ok, so my tips:

* hands forward -- i know i said i wouldn't repeat but this one's SOO important!!!! exaggerate your hands so that they always face the fall line!

* keep your weight centred (into the arches of your feet) -- instead of leaning back, lift your toes to keep tips up (note this changes, the flatter the terrain gets!)

* keep your upper body relaxed and facing fall line -- engage your abs!

* keep in mind turns in powder are more "bouncy" (have more up and down motion) than skiing on groomers -- think bumps

* have fun and keep in mind YOU'RE LEARNING!!!!!

* one more note: skiing low angle terrain is actually harder than skiing steeper terrain. when a run is steep, it takes less effort to initiate a turn in deep snow.
it took me forever to learn how to ski "the flats" without my skis wandering about without my consent!

my first couple of years skiing, everytime the snow changed i felt like i was relearning how to ski!
so don't worry, keep working at it and you'll rock the house soon enough!!!

happy skiing!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Quiver Queen]

AG--I wanna ski with you!!!(And, of course, steal your expertise.)

 

[SueNJ]

This discussion is timely for me. I'm going to UT in March and anticipate the possibility of skiing powder for the first time. I'm reading with interest...

Sue

 

[Thatsagirl]

Does this mean you' won't laugh too hard when I suck at Stowe this weekend?

Please tell me you're going to make it!

I promise I would never laugh at you...though I've been known to laugh WITH people. And I'll bet every time you fall, you'll be laughing cuz it's NOTHING like falling on hard snow.

I still am not sure if I can make it to Stowe, but I am working on trying to make it happen. It does not help that I played hookie last week. I'm sure you know that we are supposed to get snow startind today followed by a Nor'easter on Sunday. You are about to ski Stowe the way it's MEANT to be skied. And you will have great instructors to show you how to do it.

I do hope I see you, but if I don't, HAVE FUN!