Skiing in fresh powder

[Skisailor]

What happens?

Great question actually . . . . I had to think about that a bit.

I guess I feel like my skis aren't responding. But that could just be because I'm sensing that if I try to come off the fall line in a more radical turn it seems like I will just fall over. Since I have really only tried powder on blue runs so far, maybe I'm already taking in some of that feedback from the snow that you were talking about - and I just didn't know it.

I also do feel like my legs get more tired on a powder run, though I think that's at least partly because I'm more tense than I should be since it all feels so strange.

I think you're right about the leap of faith thing. But I wanted to be sure that I at least had knowledge of the proper technique to employ before I jump off into the unknown . . . .

I'm really hoping to take some powder lessons this winter. Not sure if there is a best place to do that . . . .

 

[abc]

On the groomer, one can skid to scrub speed. Or make "smearing" turns to vary the turn shape.

Skidding and smearing doesn't work that well in powder.

 

[SnowHot]

Oh, and what I have to work on, to improve my powder skiing, is put more bounce in my turns.

Funny you should say that.....
When I was getting "stuck" in the powder a friend said, "be like Tigger(T-I-double Guh- ER), bouncy trouncy flouncy, fun fun fun fun fun"

For some reason, every time I got "stuck" I'd chant the tigger chant and I'd get unstuck!
Yay Tigger!

 

[Acrophobia]

On the groomer, one can skid to scrub speed. Or make "smearing" turns to vary the turn shape.

Skidding and smearing doesn't work that well in powder.

Modern powder skis are easy to skid, smear, slash, and slarve in powder. You can make whatever turn shape you want.

 

[altagirl]

Modern powder skis are easy to skid, smear, slash, and slarve in powder. You can make whatever turn shape you want.

True. But in heavy snow or anything you're sinking into much (granted, you sink less the bigger the ski) - you're kindof asking for knee problems. Maybe it's just my beat up knees that can't handle it anymore, but I'm hearing it more often lately from younger guys as well.

Plus, she's going to be on Auras, not on something with reverse camber, etc.

 

[Skisailor]

So, Altagirl -

As the terrain gets steeper and you feel like you want to get a little more aggressive in your turns, what do you actually change?

More bounce? Is there a leg flexion/extension thing that you're doing?

How would you describe the difference between the gradual, only slightly off the fall line turns I'm making now and the tighter S turns you make on steeper terrain?

 

[altagirl]

So, Altagirl -

As the terrain gets steeper and you feel like you want to get a little more aggressive in your turns, what do you actually change?

More bounce? Is there a leg flexion/extension thing that you're doing?

How would you describe the difference between the gradual, only slightly off the fall line turns I'm making now and the tighter S turns you make on steeper terrain?

It's actually just like what you would do carving turns on a groomer (where you can also obviously make them more or less round) where you're just bringing your skis farther across the fall line and maybe speeding up your rhythm (depending on the radius), but you do have more up and down motion with your legs. As you are on steeper terrain, it just gets easier to link them together and get the rhythm right.

 

[Skisailor]

Ok. . . . maybe I've been making this harder than it really is.

Last thing - anybody have particular recommendations about a great instructor they've worked with or powder clinic they've attended?

If I'm lucky, this year I'll be out in Utah for a week, within striking distance of Aspen and Vail for a week and maybe at Big Sky later in the season.

Tx so much!

 

[altagirl]

I've never done a powder specific lesson. I've done a number of steeps camps (Gordy Peifer's Straightline Adventures a number of times and a Snowbird Steeps Camp... and a women's camp at Silverton), which focus on off-piste skiing in general (and powder if it's around...)

I would think the powder lessons at Alta would be great, but it's not really something you can plan on. I'd just schedule a lesson if it looks like you're going to get a powder day. :D

 

[Skisailor]

Could happen (since Alta happens to be my favorite Utah resort)!

Last year I was out west for 3 separate trips in different parts of the winter but no fresh powder! It was really disappointing (though I did enjoy all the bluebird days).

I'm thinking . . I can't be that unlucky two seasons in a row. Right? Got my fingers crossed.

 

[SnowHot]

Ok. . . . maybe I've been making this harder than it really is.

Last thing - anybody have particular recommendations about a great instructor they've worked with or powder clinic they've attended?

If I'm lucky, this year I'll be out in Utah for a week, within striking distance of Aspen and Vail for a week and maybe at Big Sky later in the season.

Tx so much!

Not familiar with Utah.....yet ;)
But at Aspen I'd get Charlie MacArthur, or Squatty Schuller. Hands down!
At Big Sky I'd get Ursula! She Rocks!!!

 

[dloveski]

If you are lucky enough to ski on a snowy, powdery day, and you take a lesson---be sure to make it a private lesson. Nothing is more frustrating than to be in a lesson/clinic with pow all around and wait for a couple of other students to put their skis on. It's a waste of a powder day (and as we say around here, there are no friends or family on a powder day).

What I've learned from the instructors, is that they have their off-piste short shots where they take their students to learn powder. Once you find out where these stashes are (and they are not the big bowls and the obvious places one thinks of--sometimes these are right off the lift) that's the perfect place to self-teach and drill over and over while the snow lasts.

 

[Skisailor]

Thanks dloveski! Great advice.

I will definitely do a private lesson if I'm lucky enough to have a powder day. And it was really interesting to hear you talk about the little stashes that the instructors know about for teaching. THAT would be so helpful to someone like me!

In fact I think I could use the "guide" aspect of a powder lesson almost as much as the technique info and drilling. I'm always looking at places I think might be good to practice my powder skiing from the chair and thinking . . . . now how do you get over to that?

(I frequently ski alone and am careful about exploring too far off the beaten path without a partner and without knowing where I'm going to come out or what I'll run into along the way).

 

[jessie.says.that]

Altagirl's description of "patience" turns is exactly what I'd recommend (despite having skied "powder" on the E coast like what you describe as well as heavy wcoast mank/muck/cement).

Another thing to think about that sometimes helps people, is to sort of "listen" to when your skis want to turn. Skis with lots of sidecut are often more manageable on a powder day if you take many turns more parallel to the fall line than if you attempt wider, sweeping turns where your skis go nearly perpendicular to the fall line at places. Sometimes people wait too long to initiate their next turn when learning powder for the first time (also often happens if you get in the back seat too far.)

If you find yourself competent with taking a single turn but then stopping with your skis perpendicular to the fall line, try to be "patient" and let your skis run a little bit....but try hard to never stand still on top of your skis... balance ceases to happen when you cease to move and remain active (despite being relaxed.)

Skiing powder is both difficult and blissful because it requires a zen-like patience and relaxation... and it sort of requires being in tuned with what the snow is telling you (the snow will "build up" on one side of your skis and start to tip them for you when it's time to turn next...hence the effortlessness of good powder skiing). You want to be taking slow, patient turns that seem more aggressive (in terms of how close to the fall line you are) than what you are typically comfortable with on the same terrain.

What worked for me when learning powder was skiing behind/ following someone who did everything with an upright stance, in slow motion.

Just a few more things to try

 

[jessie.says.that]

Edit: whoops, I realized that the thread had more pages after I posted that in response to the end of page two. carry on...

 

[Skisailor]

Jessie:

No! Thanks so much for your thoughts. That's exactly what I'm looking for and am so happy to read anything a powder skier has to tell me! The little taste I've gotten has me completely hooked. It's the true nirvana of skiing.

I'm just at this point where I feel like I've got the basics of my stance, etc., and I'm linking what I'll call gradual, baby, powder turns on blue terrain - but having difficulty getting to the next step. i.e. steeper powder terrain is still a bit scary to me because I haven't been able to control my speed with turns which come farther off the fall line.

Don't get me wrong - I love to go fast on steep groomers so it's not a problem with speed per se . .. it's just that I seem to still have a speed ceiling in powder because I always feel like I'm just one tiny false movement away from being a yard sale! :D

 

[Kiragirl]

good tips, thanks. I need to learn to ski powder.

 

[dloveski]

In fact I think I could use the "guide" aspect of a powder lesson almost as much as the technique info and drilling. I'm always looking at places I think might be good to practice my powder skiing from the chair and thinking . . . . now how do you get over to that?

yup, these days one must 'earn their turns' and it can be a lot of work to get to those places. Not like the 70's where you could find fresh tracks for a week. But gear is better now, so it's easier to get higher and farther.

 

[Skisailor]

I'm getting to that point were I am SO antsy to ski I can't stand it anymore!

So last night I pulled out my old Lito Tejada-Flores "Bumps and Powder" video. (My skiing friends call Lito "Jerry Garcia" 'cause he just seems SO 70s :D ). First of all, I was reminded - what a great video!

Anyway, the point of this post was to remark about how well he explains things, how well it's filmed, and also how effortless he makes skiing in deep powder look - even with his old, long skinny skis. Just a great reminder as we all obsess about our multi-ski quivers.

To be fair, at the end of the video he does talk about fat skis being useful, particularly when learning or when skiing really difficult conditions like breakable crust. But for everything else, he insists any ski will do.

 

[vernabee]

He said to "butter" the snow with the skis instead of trying to carve. There is something graceful about the rhythm when in the powder groove, almost like flying. It makes me want to whoop and holler.

Last season, after 15 years of sking, I decided to give snowboarding a whirl and did 3 days of lessons in the morning plus time on my own all afternoon/evening. Our instructor said almost the exact thing above... we had 3 days of fresh powder (almost 20 inches). The interesting thing was that I started to apply what I learned about snowboarding to my (not-so-hot) powder skiing abilities and came out of the season with a newfound appreciation and joy for skiing powder.

The main things we learned about boarding which can apply to skiing in powder:

- youre on one board. play with the edges with subtlety and dont try to carve. lesson: keep your skis together and treat it like one ski (this was the biggest and most helpful one

- bend low and distribute the weight of your feet. this doesn't mean leaning back (which = disaster and on your butt) but simply lifting the toes while keeping your shins forward will propel you and keep you floating. i thought of it as almost picking my feet up from the inside of the boot while still staying forward.

- be patient and enjoy the mellow ride. it will progress into the most freewheeling fun after you get into the groove.

- stay loose and absorb! so that if you need to adapt to changing conditions, you can.

needless to say, i spent the entire season mostly sking (hey, first and last love when it comes to snow sports ) but i was really happy with how i changed my mindset and confidence about sking in powder. led me to getting fatter skis this year and actually looking forward to getting even better!