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Skier/Snowboarder responsibility code

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
Agree with everything said so far, and just wanted to add that in addition to always looking up the hill at intersections, whenever I start feeling "crowded", like there are too many skiers around me or coming down behind me, I just stop and pull over and let them all go by. I even do this if I'm in a class. And, having had this discussion several times in the past few wks with several instructors, they said they do the same! It seems like many of us more careful skiers are starting to feel that we have to ski more defensively these days. So, @HeatherPR , do not feel like it's just you -- and don't be ashamed to just pull over and let everyone else go by, even if it takes awhile. You're skiing to enjoy yourself, not to be in fear for your life and limb.:hug:
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just a note on "pulling over" to wait for the uphill crowd to go by. That's lane changing. Yes, I know there are no lanes, but still......

Consider turning to look uphill behind you before you pull over. People up there will not be expecting you to do that, and some of them may be getting ready to pass you on that side. I sometimes use my pole to point to the side of the trail where I'm about to go. I stick it waaay out there and keep it there, like a barrier, until I'm at the edge of the trail and ready to stop.
 

ForTheKidsSkiMom

Certified Ski Diva
Just chiming in here as I got taken out by a snowboarder today at sugarbush. We were both on a wide blue groomer and he took me out from behind. We both crashed and we’re ok physically. I was so mad. And now I’m feeling super traumatized about it. This is my third season skiing and this year I’ve been plagued by rising fear. Today is just the cherry on top. I just got the book “a conversation with fear” so hoping that helps. Any other tips for ptsd?!
Hi Heather, sorry to hear this happened, totally understandable that you are more scared now! Here to ski, not talk shop, but what you’re asking is part of my profession. Since this happened, I assume you are afraid of it happening again. If we take a step back, ask yourself, while it’s possible to happen again, is a probable? Is there anything you can do to make it less likely? Risk is inherent in practically everything that we do, so it’s asking yourself if the risk of getting hurt is worth the benefits you get from skiing. After throwing some logic at it and thinking about it in a way that makes sense to you personally, then I would say to let that new course of thinking guide what to do next. Fear leads to avoidance, which maintains the fear … therefore the solution is.. approaching! If you feel too big of an challenge to go on that hill where it happened, start at a hill that arouses less anxiety and work your way up. If these tips alone aren’t helpful enough and the fear is really interfering, consider finding a good therapist to help you. There is hope I promise. Good luck!
 

HeatherPR

Certified Ski Diva
Hi Heather, sorry to hear this happened, totally understandable that you are more scared now! Here to ski, not talk shop, but what you’re asking is part of my profession. Since this happened, I assume you are afraid of it happening again. If we take a step back, ask yourself, while it’s possible to happen again, is a probable? Is there anything you can do to make it less likely? Risk is inherent in practically everything that we do, so it’s asking yourself if the risk of getting hurt is worth the benefits you get from skiing. After throwing some logic at it and thinking about it in a way that makes sense to you personally, then I would say to let that new course of thinking guide what to do next. Fear leads to avoidance, which maintains the fear … therefore the solution is.. approaching! If you feel too big of an challenge to go on that hill where it happened, start at a hill that arouses less anxiety and work your way up. If these tips alone aren’t helpful enough and the fear is really interfering, consider finding a good therapist to help you. There is hope I promise. Good luck!
Thank you for this insight. I appreciate your logic...it make sense.
 

HeatherPR

Certified Ski Diva
Just a note on "pulling over" to wait for the uphill crowd to go by. That's lane changing. Yes, I know there are no lanes, but still......

Consider turning to look uphill behind you before you pull over. People up there will not be expecting you to do that, and some of them may be getting ready to pass you on that side. I sometimes use my pole to point to the side of the trail where I'm about to go. I stick it waaay out there and keep it there, like a barrier, until I'm at the edge of the trail and ready to stop.
agree...i always look over before changing lanes...i LOVE the idea of sticking out my ski pole
 

HeatherPR

Certified Ski Diva
Agree with everything said so far, and just wanted to add that in addition to always looking up the hill at intersections, whenever I start feeling "crowded", like there are too many skiers around me or coming down behind me, I just stop and pull over and let them all go by. I even do this if I'm in a class. And, having had this discussion several times in the past few wks with several instructors, they said they do the same! It seems like many of us more careful skiers are starting to feel that we have to ski more defensively these days. So, @HeatherPR , do not feel like it's just you -- and don't be ashamed to just pull over and let everyone else go by, even if it takes awhile. You're skiing to enjoy yourself, not to be in fear for your life and limb.:hug:
you know...i need to learn to ski just by myself. i most often ski with my husband who is an expert. whenever i wait for people to go, he tells me to just go and that i'll be waiting forever if i just sit there. so i often never pull over when it gets too crowded. he's a firm believer that people behind you will watch out for you....i guess i just proved that theory wrong this past weekend. i think i need to focus more on what makes me feel good about skiing and doing what feels right--so if i need to pull over or wait, he can just go down without me and wait at the bottom.
 

jmfd84

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
you know...i need to learn to ski just by myself. i most often ski with my husband who is an expert. whenever i wait for people to go, he tells me to just go and that i'll be waiting forever if i just sit there. so i often never pull over when it gets too crowded. he's a firm believer that people behind you will watch out for you....i guess i just proved that theory wrong this past weekend. i think i need to focus more on what makes me feel good about skiing and doing what feels right--so if i need to pull over or wait, he can just go down without me and wait at the bottom.

I am on my fifth season skiing as an adult and worked through a lot of fear and anxiety about all the people whizzing by me my first few seasons. I've gotten more confident as my skills have progressed but I will never stop being aware of who is around. I just wanted to highlight what you said above and offer you some support in recognizing that you CAN focus on you and what you're comfortable with, regardless of who you are skiing with. Learning to ski as an adult has been a journey of developing self-trust for me -- physically trusting what my body can do, trusting myself to push through fear when appropriate and back off when I need or want to, and just overall getting more in tune with what I am experiencing on the hill and what I want out of it.
 

jmfd84

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
More related to the topic of this thread, my home mountain has recently put small signs on the tables in the lodge with the new responsibility code on a bright yellow background. I was glad to see them and hope people read them... it's at least another potential touch-point.
 

sorcamc

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
damn, this post is so upsetting. I was in breck this week and on a few very crowded slopes where I was just kinda cruising along, I reminded myself, SKI FAST bc you dont want to be blindsided from behind. Literally after my very last run, I got a call from my daughter that her car had been terribly rear ended while she sat at a traffic light. I thought about exchanging insurance info, etc...but this post is making me realize, If I am every hit by a blindside at a resort, I will ask for a photo of license and phone number/insurance info. It's no joke and the injuries are real. Im really sorry to hear so many of you have been hit in recent days.
 

sorcamc

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just a note on "pulling over" to wait for the uphill crowd to go by. That's lane changing. Yes, I know there are no lanes, but still......

Consider turning to look uphill behind you before you pull over. People up there will not be expecting you to do that, and some of them may be getting ready to pass you on that side. I sometimes use my pole to point to the side of the trail where I'm about to go. I stick it waaay out there and keep it there, like a barrier, until I'm at the edge of the trail and ready to stop.
I always look uphill before changing lanes and even use my poles as you do to make it VERY clear what my intentions are. I wish others did also! I was actually contemplating some kind of invention this week where a pole could have a Button on top to click if you know you are pulling over that would somehow connect to the back of your helmet like a turn signal. I have never skied a resort like Breck where there are so many merge trails
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
you know...i need to learn to ski just by myself. i most often ski with my husband who is an expert. whenever i wait for people to go, he tells me to just go and that i'll be waiting forever if i just sit there. so i often never pull over when it gets too crowded. he's a firm believer that people behind you will watch out for you....i guess i just proved that theory wrong this past weekend. i think i need to focus more on what makes me feel good about skiing and doing what feels right--so if i need to pull over or wait, he can just go down without me and wait at the bottom.
Yes, this is for the best. I am in the same boat - I wait for the crowds to pass then re-join the group after. Your safety and security should be the #1 priority here, though I am glad he feels his safety and security are not compromised in big crowds. Doubtless knowing how to deal with such a situation comes with his level of experience, but I would hope he'd be understanding that you are not quite there yet.

I really sympathize since I have had similar experiences with my husband trying to talk me into things he thinks I can handle and am ready for. While I appreciate his confidence in me and tell him so, if I disagree, I know to be firm in telling him to go his own way. It's not worth the anxiety.

Hugs to you and I am glad you are ok!
 

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
damn, this post is so upsetting. I was in breck this week and on a few very crowded slopes where I was just kinda cruising along, I reminded myself, SKI FAST bc you dont want to be blindsided from behind. Literally after my very last run, I got a call from my daughter that her car had been terribly rear ended while she sat at a traffic light. I thought about exchanging insurance info, etc...but this post is making me realize, If I am every hit by a blindside at a resort, I will ask for a photo of license and phone number/insurance info. It's no joke and the injuries are real. Im really sorry to hear so many of you have been hit in recent days.
I always carry my "ski wallet" with me: a small plastic doublefold with pockets that seal like a ziplock (got it on some ski site), and inside I carry my ID/license, medical insurance cards, a credit card and a bit of cash. Takes just about no room, and I figure if I'm ever in a ski accident (and esp if I'm not conscious or have to go to a med facility) I have all the necessary docs (you know they always want your insurance info before anything else :wink:).
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I've been interested to note the last couple of weeks that Sunday River is mentioning the Skier Code in their daily Mountain Report. It started as just at the bottom in this section that doesn't change every day. Last weekend I saw it on a huge screen when in line at the new Barker lift, which also has permanent structures with the code written on them there. Then today's mountain report mentioned it in the actual body of the report that changes daily in addition to the part that has been there each day down below, asking if you know it and that you should take a moment to review it before heading out. It also specified that you should remember to ski slowly in base areas.

First, I thought this might be a push with a busy vacation week upon us.. but the mountain was really quiet last weekend and I've heard it hasn't been super busy as one would normally expect for a holiday period this week either. So it makes me think they are responding perhaps to specific behaviors being seen.. and if so I hope they keep it up because there has been a ton of bad behavior this season. Didn't even get me started on the straight lining that has kept picking up pace as well. I never noticed it that much here, but that isn't the case any longer. When I was skiing Monday I had stopped on a trail off to the side and literally counted the next 4 or 5 people who came down the middle didn't turn at all.. on a black diamond run. And yes of course they appeared to be teenaged boys as usual. Elsewhere I had two boys go screaming right by me even though I was otherwise alone on a trail. I have a very hard time understanding how and why this is growing so much in popularity and that these people also settle for "skiing" this way versus actually learning how to turn. Last Sunday I was in my ski group lesson and one guy went absolutely flying by us as we were all kind of in a line on the skier's left edge of another black diamond trail.. a little ways further and the guy blew himself up and double ejected flying way down from where his skis stopped. He's very lucky he stayed on trail and didn't go down over the side edge into the trees. My instructor and another student brought the skis down to him.. can't say I didn't think they very much deserved what happened and I didn't feel bad about it one bit..
 
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MrsPlow

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It's interesting that you mention the ski code being displayed prominently. Revelstoke's facebook and insta stories last week were several pages of emphasising responsibilities and always being in control. I don't know if there'd been a bad collision or if it's just the low snow year forcing everyone into a smaller area than usual.
 

wernerslab

Diva in Training
Last year at Winter Park they had the code posted and I have also seen signs there ( and maybe at Camelback this year) about skiing too fast and plowing into a child causing fatality. Maybe some have seen these types of signs, “She was 5. You were doing 60.’ and additional info about ski safety? I’m not sure it helps most of the people who ski as if they are the only ones on the slope but I do point those signs out to my 12 yr old to make sure he understands there have been serious consequences when you don’t pay attention and ski/board safely. Last year he and I witnessed a terrible accident at WP bw a skier going fast, cutting across a slope and an adaptive skier who was clearly downhill and visible. The adaptive skier got himself sorted and went on skiing but the skier’s trip was over based on how he was in agony and could not get back up. I was shaken and called the resort later that day to say I had witnessed the accident in case there was anything legal that happened later. (This was all after Gwyneth Paltrow’s ski trial had been all over the news so felt I should do something.). I think about that accident when I go out and I stop to the side and let things clear a bit when I feel like there are too many on the slope around me who don’t seem to have enough control.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
I sometimes use my pole to point to the side of the trail where I'm about to go. I stick it waaay out there and keep it there, like a barrier, until I'm at the edge of the trail and ready to stop.
I have taken to "signaling" this season, and it's new to me. It just seems like there are choke points at every resort and signaling is helpful at merge points. I have no qualms about pulling over and waiting for a pocket; however, I usually do this at a logical point in the run where something "new" in the terrain is beginning.
 

TiffAlt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have taken to "signaling" this season, and it's new to me. It just seems like there are choke points at every resort and signaling is helpful at merge points. I have no qualms about pulling over and waiting for a pocket; however, I usually do this at a logical point in the run where something "new" in the terrain is beginning.
I do the pole signaling thing too! I try to keep it to a minimum though, just before a stop or turn, since I've had people blow past me on that side, despite me being close to the edge of the run.
 

Amie H

Angel Diva
@MissySki first thing I thought of after reading your post was that rude witch who ran into you then faked an injury and skied away. Maybe she hit other people, enough complaints rolled in, so they want to remind people of the rules.
That said, entitled nut cases don't seem to ever think that rules apply to them.
 

Amplify

Diva in Training
I get very nervous about this in general. When I was about 5 years old I was skiing with my mom. We were on a green circle and I fell down and lost a ski. She moved me to the side of the trail, fetched my ski, and started helping me get it back on, when a guy who was completely out of control (don’t know if he was new? Drunk? Whatever – I do remember he was in a group of friends) came careening down and crashed into her. It broke her leg and he got pretty hurt as well; I don’t remember what exactly happened to him but he got the neck brace thing on when they took him down. They said that if he had hit me instead I would have quite possibly been seriously– possibly fatally – hurt. I don’t remember a lot about it except just sitting there in the snow for what felt like a very long time, waiting for the ski patrol to get there and being scared more people were going to crash into us. For a long time, I had a lot of guilt and fear around it – I felt like it was my fault for falling down/being in the way, or I worried that my mom had done something wrong by moving me from where I fell, putting us directly in that guy’s path (although of course he wasn’t speeding towards us when we moved there). It took me a long time to believe my mom when she told me that it was his job to be in control of himself – that our responsibility is to ski/fall/get back up safely, and we had taken steps to do that (moving out of the main central path, etc). And also that in general greens on the beginner mountain (this was on Morse at Smuggler's Notch - basically all greens) are not places where you should be speeding down at high, injurious speeds in the first place. It was an accident, and you should always do what you can to prevent an accident, whether you have the “right of way” or not – but we were not at fault just for not preventing it.

I tell my own kids (6 and 9) that story because I want them to fully appreciate how important it is to not put themselves in situations where they can’t be generally in control, and not just in control but respectful. How it’s not just about keeping themselves safe, but about keeping others safe. When you are skiing, you are part of a community made up of everybody on that slope, and you all need to help keep each other safe. If they are skiing in slow areas (designated or not), they are expected to ski slower, even if it’s slower than they want to go or feel is fun. If they want to try a hard new slope, they have a responsibility to the people around them to be clear with their body language where they are going, and to move to the side if they are going to pause. If they feel truly out of control on a slope, it’s almost always better to fall than to keep going. And in general, don’t ski faster than you can stop. (a bit simplified, but the gist is what I’m going for.) Simliar to TNtoTaos, I also teach them that whenever it feels crowded, just pull to the side and stop for a minute (we look uphill before “pulling over,” just like merging). Likewise, if there are people in front of you going slower than you want but you can’t find a good/safe way to get past them, just stop! Take a break, let them get some distance from you, and enjoy the view.

I tell them that just as they have every right to ski at their own pace and take their time to feel in control and safe - and just like they have every right to fall down, because falling is just part of skiing sometimes - other people have those same rights.

I get very weirded out by the bro-y “beer culture” that some people bring to skiing. People talking about pounding a beer on the lift, etc. I love a good beer but I don’t know why you would want to ski even buzzed? Let alone, like, have this bravado about it. I generally think that skiing under the influence should be frowned on as much as driving under the influence, but a lot of times it’s treated as cool or almost as part of the point of going.
 

mountainwest

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Didn't even get me started on the straight lining that has kept picking up pace as well. I never noticed it that much here, but that isn't the case any longer. When I was skiing Monday I had stopped on a trail off to the side and literally counted the next 4 or 5 people who came down the middle didn't turn at all.. on a black diamond run. And yes of course they appeared to be teenaged boys as usual. Elsewhere I had two boys go screaming right by me even though I was otherwise alone on a trail. I have a very hard time understanding how and why this is growing so much in popularity and that these people also settle for "skiing" this way versus actually learning how to turn.

We're having the same problem out at Grand Targhee this season. I think having a winter that got off to a very slow start and therefore not having enough snow to build the Sweetwater Terrain park has been part of the problem. (It's finally open now, so fingers crossed that helps!) On the hardpack days it's particularly bad. This weekend I was descending a narrow, somewhat icy cat track at a brisk pace, off the the right side in case anyone decided that they simply could not contain themselves behind me when a straightlining young man in a full tuck squeezed between me and the hillside on my right - confused about why he would do that when I was keeping right, I quickly discovered that it was because there was a second straightliner passing me in a full tuck on my left.
 

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