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SkiA Sweetspot Trainer

marzNC

Angel Diva
Looks like SkiA updated their training manual a bit. A blog entry from Sept 2014 includes additional ideas such as balancing on one foot and using a ball while using the Sweetspot.

The FAQs include a list of things to do. Good to know that doing refresher exercises two weeks before ski season starts is recommended.

From SkiA FAQ
Any do's and don'ts?
  • Do read our safety and fitting instructions in the manual
  • Do start on the green blocks, even if you are an expert skier. The key to success is to perfect your balance and movement patterns on each size. Starting with the green blocks provides you with the foundation to move to the harder challenges, even if you use them only very briefly
  • Do take your time to progress. Gain confidence and expertise on each block size, before you move onto harder blocks. The flip side to this is that challenging yourself on harder blocks, and then moving back to the easier blocks, is a great way to improve your skills quickly.
  • Don't be in too much of a rush to get to the black blocks. Skiers love a challenge and are naturally competitive. If you're a good skier, you may want to get straight to the black blocks as quickly as possible. We see this over and over again in training sessions. The black blocks are extremely hard - they are like balancing sideways on a tightrope in ski boots. You will need exceptional balance skills to use these confidently. The good news is that almost everybody can develop these skills with time and practice. The best way to develop these skills is to perfect your balance and movement patterns on the larger blocks, and gradually increase the challenge.
  • Do try to keep your feet still on the floor, and use your body to balance. Don't use little 'baby' steps forwards and backwards to balance - if you have to do this repeatedly, then you're cheating! You need to develop your skills on the larger blocks again
  • Do keep your feet side by side - having one foot forwards is another way of cheating!
  • Do have fun. Try doing the exercises in time to music. Play catch and throw, and find new ways to challenge your balance.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Wondering if the recent winners have had a chance to use their Sweetspots yet. If so, what color blocks?
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have not =/ I really want to - I have some theories about my fore/aft balance that I think they'll help me explore.
 

vtgal7thgen

Certified Ski Diva
glad to see this thread- I almost bought these at the start of the 2014/2015 season and NOW, I've just ordered them. Still more ski days to go this year and I'll be excited to see if this helps with my many goals for skiing more effortlessly! I can always tell on a day when I'm more centered because I'm far less tired....feel like I could go all day if I could just figure this out.
 

alicie

Angel Diva
I bought these about this time last year. They are quite fun. Can't say I have used them consistently, I think I've used them 20 times in total. I'm currently using the blue blocks. They are quite a faff to put on, but once they're on it's fine. I'm intending on using them more this summer.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
:bump:
Been a while since there was any mention of the SkiA Sweetspot. I used mine more a year ago. For assorted reasons, I hadn't done as much ski conditioning and had skied very little before my mid-season ski trip. So I figured it couldn't hurt to use the Sweetspot to at least remind my body how the proper balance positions feel. I think it probably helped.

I didn't use the balance trainers that often. Perhaps 10-15 times over 3-4 months. I tend to stick with the blue blocks because I'm interested in good form for all the balance drills. Haven't ever used them enough to do full set of the drills with the red blocks.

See Post #4 for details or the Ski Diva's blog entry from 2012.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Here's the video about the basic exercises with comments from Chris Fellows of NASTC. NASTC is a Tahoe-based private ski instruction group that does multi-day clinics all over the world, including Portillo during the summer.


Chris published Total Skiing in 2011. That's a very comprehensive book for people who want to know how to evaluate their physical strengths and weaknesses specifically for skiing. After the self-evaluation, there suggestions for which of the included exercises are worth working on during the off-season.
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
I've skied in clinics with Chris Fellows, so it's interesting for me to see him promoting the SkiA device. I want to acknowledge up front that there is aLOT of disagreement about proper fore-aft balance amongst ski instructors. That said, IMHO, and in what I've learned from Ursula (and also what I've heard her say about the SkiA) there is a concern that it trains you to get used to balancing (centering your weight) too far back on your foot - over the arch - rather than balancing over the ball of the foot (the fleshy pads just aft of your toes).

Here is a thought experiment. If you had to balance on a shifting surface, or if you had to be in the best possible ready position to move quickly in any direction, would you want to be standing on your arches? Or would you rather have your weight a bit more forward over the ball of the foot?

That's the argument Ursula used to hook me into trying to center my weight over the balls of my feet. Then I tried it on snow - and I was amazed.

Another quick observation about the video - when the guy on the SkiA does the "pivoting" stuff, he rotates his hips (and most of his upper body). In skiing, we try to accomplish as much of the rotation as possible with just our legs - femurs turning in the hip sockets (which, by the way, is harder to do the farther back your weight is balanced). Hips and upper body can start to turn with the skis in medium and longer radius turns. But for a pivoting drill on a balancing device such as the SkiA, it would be a great opportunity to practice turning with your legs.
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
@Skisailor so is that an overall endorsement of the trainer, but with caveats?

For me personally (and I think for Ursula) it is a non endorsement for working on fore-aft balance skills unless adjustments can be made with where on the boot you strap it on. I don't know how that part works.

But from my perspective, I wouldn't want to use something that is ingraining muscle memory for balancing too far back on my foot.

As I said - there is disagreement even within instructor ranks about this issue but that is my opinion based on what Ursula has taught me.

But if you ARE going to use it, I would at least work on the pivoting feeling - isolating that movement so that it is your femurs turning in your hip sockets and you aren't swinging your hips around. Try putting your hands on your hips and see if you can keep them still as the legs rotate.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
What I found most useful after knee rehab and before I the slopes opened was using the SkiA Sweetspot to essentially put my boots "on edge." The bases of the blocks are not flat, so can roll them side to side. Was good to test out that position on dry land to gain confidence that my knee was fine with that motion.

I wonder if Martin Bell ever discussed the Sweetspot with Ursula when he was at Big Sky. Back in 2014, he was interviewed by PlanetSki, a European ski magazine, and was asked about training tools. Martin said he had been

"using the SkiA Sweetspot Ski Trainer for himself and his race team.
'It's a good thing to use when you're off the snow', he said. 'It's a very ski specific balance exercise tool which is very useful and good for training balance on - for skiers it's the best and easiest way'. 'I'll take some with me this summer when I go to the camps at Mt Hood and my daughter will be using one too'."


https://www.planetski.eu/news/6015
 

Ursula

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
What I found most useful after knee rehab and before I the slopes opened was using the SkiA Sweetspot to essentially put my boots "on edge." The bases of the blocks are not flat, so can roll them side to side. Was good to test out that position on dry land to gain confidence that my knee was fine with that motion.

I wonder if Martin Bell ever discussed the Sweetspot with Ursula when he was at Big Sky. Back in 2014, he was interviewed by PlanetSki, a European ski magazine, and was asked about training tools. Martin said he had been

"using the SkiA Sweetspot Ski Trainer for himself and his race team.
'It's a good thing to use when you're off the snow', he said. 'It's a very ski specific balance exercise tool which is very useful and good for training balance on - for skiers it's the best and easiest way'. 'I'll take some with me this summer when I go to the camps at Mt Hood and my daughter will be using one too'."


https://www.planetski.eu/news/6015

Quick to the point. No, Martin and I never talked about this "Sweetspot" trainer.

I personally would also not use it in the position everybody talks about. If skiing would be a stationary sport, in the gym hall, even floor, no movement involved but from side to side and right underneath your feet, maybe, I could agree with it. Maybe. I still would try to mount it under my feet that the block is more under the ball of my foot than under my arch.
The fact remains, skiing is NOT done in the gym hall. It is a sport with lots of movement, speed changes, terrain changes, etc. And we have options. We can train ourselves to go for the ride, staying on the arch with the weight, tipping the skis from one side to the other, waiting for the skis to react and when they do and start to speed up, we can try to catch up, because by then, our weight will be on our heels or sometimes even further back. All the while our thighs will have a great work-out.
Or, we can be proactive, start with the weight on the ball of the foot, go even further forward to start the next turn. (The only problem with that kind of skiing is that your thighs wont get the work-out!)

So, if you own one of these trainers, get on them, but now try to walk, run and/or jump with them. Think forward movements. That is what you need in skiing. Let us know how it feels if you have the block under the middle of your feet.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
My impression is that when I use the Sweetspot is that my weight must be over the balls of my feet in order to keep in balance fore-aft. But I don't use it that often and haven't gotten that sort of stuff out of storage yet. The advanced skiers and one instructor who tried it out mine a few years ago found that if their weight was back at all, they had to make an adjustment that felt reasonable based on their knowledge of fore-aft balance when skiing.

Would I recommend the Sweetspot for an advanced skier? Probably not. But for an intermediate who lives more than 3 hours from the nearest ski slope who doesn't get to ski more than 20 days a season, I think it could be worth trying. I would say the same about the Skier's Edge or a few other ski training gadgets that have been developed in the last 10-20 years.
 

Olesya Chornoguz

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Here is a thought experiment. If you had to balance on a shifting surface, or if you had to be in the best possible ready position to move quickly in any direction, would you want to be standing on your arches? Or would you rather have your weight a bit more forward over the ball of the foot?

That's the argument Ursula used to hook me into trying to center my weight over the balls of my feet. Then I tried it on snow - and I was amazed.
This makes so much sense to me! I very much agree with this as I think about my most recent skiing progress. Middle-end of last season and the few days I skied this season I notices I ski best when my balance is more on the ball of the foot I think! I felt I could really drive my skis that way and adjust to any snow/terrain changes better/faster.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
@ski diva @marzNC and anybody else who has tried this. One question: do you still use it?
Yes, I use the Ski Sweetspot during pre-season and early season. Fall 2016 I worked with it more because I was not able to do as much ski conditioning. Meaning once or twice a week starting late Sept. I'll take it with me when I spend a little over a week at Massanutten starting Jan. 6. For me, it's helpful and I know that the small leg muscles involved with balance get a work out.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I used it before I started skiing this year. I thought it might be helpful in re-establishing my stance, especially after my bike accident.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have one to sell if anyone would like it. I can't comment on its effectiveness as I find I just don't make the time to use it. PM me if interested.
 

Obrules15

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Quick to the point. No, Martin and I never talked about this "Sweetspot" trainer.

I personally would also not use it in the position everybody talks about. If skiing would be a stationary sport, in the gym hall, even floor, no movement involved but from side to side and right underneath your feet, maybe, I could agree with it. Maybe. I still would try to mount it under my feet that the block is more under the ball of my foot than under my arch.
The fact remains, skiing is NOT done in the gym hall. It is a sport with lots of movement, speed changes, terrain changes, etc. And we have options. We can train ourselves to go for the ride, staying on the arch with the weight, tipping the skis from one side to the other, waiting for the skis to react and when they do and start to speed up, we can try to catch up, because by then, our weight will be on our heels or sometimes even further back. All the while our thighs will have a great work-out.
Or, we can be proactive, start with the weight on the ball of the foot, go even further forward to start the next turn. (The only problem with that kind of skiing is that your thighs wont get the work-out!)

So, if you own one of these trainers, get on them, but now try to walk, run and/or jump with them. Think forward movements. That is what you need in skiing. Let us know how it feels if you have the block under the middle of your feet.
^^^^^This

I used this a few years ago and I think it was good for recognizing where my weight was and for getting used to feeling where I'm balanced but I find that staying balanced in that one spot does not help me ski better. If you look at the BASI videos (they have five) they advocate Skiing balanced on that spot at all times. But static balance is not how I'm skiing now.

I find (right/wrong don't know) that I'm moving that balance point forward and backwards at all times when I'm skiing well, not just statically balanced in one place. I do appreciate that it taught me to FEEL where my balance was, which has served me well in my progression but without being able to dynamically adjust the balance point it's just not helpful now.
 

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