Ski Lesson Issues

[ThatJessGirl]

Hey all, I’m hoping for some feedback on how to handle a situation I’ve been running into. The last two group lessons I’ve had I was honest about my abilities. I can parallel turn, control speed, direction. I’ll zip greens and mid blues at speed without issue. I have no problem with transitioning doing big wide C turns on large open runs. Blue narrower runs in trees doesn’t scare me- that’s fun. I have no fear of speed. Where I actively know I need coaching is the higher angle grade of blue runs. Wide open high angle grades just scare the stuffing outta me for whatever reason especially if I’ve never run them before and if conditions may be less than optimal. I googled “Skiing Skill Levels” and I’m somewhere around a late 4, early 5 on Ski Profiles with grade and conditions being my biggest fears. However, the grading system with these listed abilities clearly marked puts me at a 3 at my resort. Last week’s group lesson there were people who were pizza’ing still. I had a private with this instructor once before and he immediately realized people in the group overstated skills and just either had me go on ahead and wait or when he was up in front working I played linebacker and brought up the tail to reassure everyone that “You’re fine. Take your time. They’d have to hit me first coming down.” At the end of that lesson the instructor commented that this lesson became just review from my private a while ago. This happened again this week in a two person lesson and the instructor lumped me in with the comment before we even did a run “You’re still pizza’ing” and I just smiled and nodded as he explained why we shouldn’t pizza anymore. He then realized and it became another week of “Ski down first and wait.” with much of the lesson devoted to bringing the other person up to speed. I don’t feel like I’m getting much out of these lessons as a result and I didn’t want to overstate my abilities but clearly maybe I need to. I’m absolutely hungry to progress in skill so I can look at a high angle run and not even flinch. Also, there are tons of instructors where I go and I was hoping to get the same one I had last week who realized immediately and knew where I was skill-wise so at least he would’ve had an idea of my abilities. Sadly, he wasn't there today. Thoughts? Suggestions? Help!

 

[Christy]

Contact the ski school and politely tell them that twice you've been placed in groups below your ability and haven't learned anything, despite being clear about your abilities. Name the instructor that can back up the mismatch and mention your private. The right thing for them to do will be to comp you a lesson. You can ask for this explicitly too. When I've been in group lessons there has been a ski off to sort groups--the instructors have not relied on people's self-assessment. Even on a very slow weekday where there are only 3 people wanting lessons, they've watched us ski first to sort us out.

Hopefully you'll get a lesson comped, but in any case, next time you are in a group sorting situation, you will have to be exceptionally clear that you have been placed in too-low groups in the recent past and do not want to be grouped in with others that still wedge their turns. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I googled “Skiing Skill Levels” and I’m somewhere around a late 4, early 5 on Ski Profiles with grade and conditions being my biggest fears. However, the grading system with these listed abilities clearly marked puts me at a 3 at my resort.

Are you in Canada? There's a difference between the American and Canadian level system. Skiprofiles.com looks like the American level system. Here is the Canadian. https://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/plan-your-trip/ski-and-ride-lessons/ability-charts.aspx

 

[ThatJessGirl]

Contact the ski school and politely tell them that twice you've been placed in groups below your ability and haven't learned anything, despite being clear about your abilities. Name the instructor that can back up the mismatch and mention your private. The right thing for them to do will be to comp you a lesson. You can ask for this explicitly too. When I've been in group lessons there has been a ski off to sort groups--the instructors have not relied on people's self-assessment. Even on a very slow weekday where there are only 3 people wanting lessons, they've watched us ski first to sort us out.

Hopefully you'll get a lesson comped, but in any case, next time you are in a group sorting situation, you will have to be exceptionally clear that you have been placed in too-low groups in the recent past and do not want to be grouped in with others that still wedge their turns. Good luck and let us know what happens.



Are you in Canada? There's a difference between the American and Canadian level system. Skiprofiles.com looks like the American level system. Here is the Canadian. https://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/plan-your-trip/ski-and-ride-lessons/ability-charts.aspx

I’m in the states. I’ll talk to the ski resort. I honestly wish they would have like a physical report card or something so you can have something completed by another ski instructor to let the next ski instructor know “Ok, she doesn’t need to be explained how to stop without wedging.” This happened today, oy. I’m thinking, too, maybe privates will be the way to go from here on out because I’ve noticed people in group lessons have a habit of overstating abilities so the whole group skis ability-wise to the slowest man. Last week there was a girl who had never been off the bunny hill who had to be removed last minute because of this.

 

[Christy]

Do you have the card/email of your instructor that gave you the private? I wonder if he could provide some "magic words" to help prevent this.

Yeah, privates would solve the problem, but they are so expensive I understand wanting to do groups! I've always had such good group lessons so I am a big fan of those.

 

[ThatJessGirl]

Do you have the card/email of your instructor that gave you the private? I wonder if he could provide some "magic words" to help prevent this.

Yeah, privates would solve the problem, but they are so expensive I understand wanting to do groups! I've always had such good group lessons so I am a big fan of those.

I know his name and that he’s an older gentleman who gives his privates with all the strictness of a Russian ballerina teacher which I completely appreciate. I think I’ll take another private with him and do like you mentioned about the term signaling which hopefully will help.

 

[kiki]

Yes I had a similar challenge earlier in the year at a smaller ski resort. When I spoke to the snow school they said they didn’t have enough people in my level to create a group. So at that location I switched over to a couple of private lessons. At bigger resorts with more people it is easier to get a good group. I normally like group lessons but it is really no fun to be grouped with the wrong skill level, it is always a bit of a lottery. Good luck and don’t give up.

 

[kiki]

Also here is a level description from the ladies group camps I’ve been to:

Level 1
I have never put skis on before.

Level 2
I can turn both ways (in a wedge) and stop.

Level 3
I can ski green runs in a wedge and sometimes parallel.

Level 4
I am parallel on easy blue runs

Spicy 4
I am parallel on all blue runs and enjoy new terrain such as small bumps and light powder

Level 5
I am parallel on all black runs

Spicy 5
I’m parallel on black runs enjoy new terrain such as bumps and light powder

Level 6
I enjoy double black runs and powder. I feel comfortable skiing almost anywhere on the mountain and look forward to exploring challenging terrain

 

[Iwannaski]

But I want to be SPICY! More practice time required. I do not like bumps.

 

[vickie]

When you call the ski school, ask to speak to the Ski School Director. Explain what has happened twice, that you have learned nothing, and that it has been a waste of your time and money. You might also mention the private lesson and that you know they have instructors capable of assessing your skill and teaching you. (It is possible that they are assigning a less skilled instructor to your group and the instructor is abandoning you because they don't know how to teach at your level.) You should expect to be compensated in some way -- 2 additional group lessons or, maybe if they're feeling generous, 1 private lesson.

I've been down this path. When I reached the point of "I'm not taking this crap anymore" and called the Ski School Director, I got results. After that, I called him again and thanked him.

 

[newbieM]

I would go to the person coordinating the instructors and grouping and tell them what your skills are and your experience with getting grouped under and haven't learned anything.

I would definitely call the school and ask for a future credit. I agree privates give you private attention so if you can financially swing it that is probably the best investment. For me I found the instructor more valuable if we clicked, so I like an instructor that gets super technical and over explains. I asked for that explicitly.

 

[Christy]

I know his name and that he’s an older gentleman who gives his privates with all the strictness of a Russian ballerina teacher which I completely appreciate. I think I’ll take another private with him and do like you mentioned about the term signaling which hopefully will help.

Lol I had a Russian Pilates instructor who made the entire class repeat sets of exercises if even a single person was not doing them to her satisfaction. And I loved it.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I am sorry to hear about your lesson woes. That sucks. I am curious if you asked the private lesson instructor to specifically tell you which level he thinks you are? You mention that based on the description at your mountain you are a level 3, or maybe 4 or 5?

Maybe there is a specific run that you have skied, but are a little worried about, and you can tell the person making the group assignments decision which run you ski, but want to ski better, and that you absolutely do not want to be "stuck" on easy greens again.

From the instructor side of things I have experienced a camp participant who kept begging to go up to our groups from her own, because she was faster and better. It turns out that yes she was faster, but no she was not better than the others as she lacked control on steeper runs. Unfortunately, this was her, not saying this is you at all, she would often speed past everyone until she could not control her speed. It did not help that all the ladies in her group thought she was the better skier. That was a tough case as she was miserable, but would have been a danger to herself in a higher level group.

Another approach may be to ask for a minimum level 2 or 3 instructor. At that level, they should without a doubt be able to challenge you at a your more advanced skill level even on an easier run. The skills necessary for steeper terrain I often teach most of the day on easy runs and then apply them to steeps only once they are consistently executed down low. Things like one legged skiing, no pole skiing, etc... At least you would feel that you are being challenged and learning so that those harder runs will be easier once you are on them again.

Are you worried about saying something to the school managers or instructors? I understand if you are as it can be super awkward, but maybe asking why they don't bump you up to a better matched group especially when the instructor says you should be bumped would be a legitimate question... I think you are spot on about the report card. We used to have adult report cards and they were wonderful for the "next" instructor. It would show if a topic had been introduced, if the guest was now working on it, and if it had been mastered. So helpful.

Best of luck and make sure to ask for what you want and are paying for, and expect an explanation if you are not getting what you seek.

 

[vickie]

Another approach may be to ask for a minimum level 2 or 3 instructor.

That reminds me. I also asked the Ski School Director what I needed to do to ensure I got a qualified instructor. He said to tell the coordinator (who assigns instructors to the groups) that I needed a certified instructor.

 

[Jilly]

Please make sure you complain. And as mentioned be specific about how you want this resolved. I had a similar expert group lesson issue. I complained to the supervisor and was comp'd another lesson with a totally english speaking instructor.

 

[liquidfeet]

That reminds me. I also asked the Ski School Director what I needed to do to ensure I got a qualified instructor. He said to tell the coordinator (who assigns instructors to the groups) that I needed a certified instructor.

In the US there are three levels of PSIA (Professional Ski Instructor Association) certification. PSIA certified Level I is easy to get. As in, EASY. Level II is considerably more difficult. Level III is tops as far as certification goes (US). These three levels require increasing amounts of experience actually teaching.

 

[Iwannaski]

^ it’s funny because this weekend, I saw and heard a lot of beginner lesson conversations in the lift line:

In one, an older lady was asking her instructor about some of the “technical language” he was using and why... his response was that level I instructors basically just needed to be able to ski properly, and that because of the work required to get to level II, he was happy just being at I. But obviously, from her question, he wasn’t connecting with her in his instruction.

 

[marzNC]

In the U.S., certification is not required to be a ski instructor. Especially at small mountains. For the beginner group lessons, some instructors only have had a few days of training by a local trainer. They have the opportunity for free training clinics all season long, but not all will pay close attention. Those who are more interested can pass the PSIA Level 1 exam by mid-season. That's even if they have only been skiing for a season or two.

In my experience, a Level 2 instructor with 5+ years of experience working can be quite good. Most instructors also have day jobs. So there can be many reasons that the time and money required to get to the point of being able to pass the PSIA written exam and the skiing/teaching exam is not practical. Getting from Level 2 to Level 3 usually takes years of training, clinics, and practice, including at bigger mountains for people who have a home mountain with 1000 feet vertical or less.

The attitude of the Ski School Director about the importance of certification is a factor too.

 

[newboots]

^ it’s funny because this weekend, I saw and heard a lot of beginner lesson conversations in the lift line:

In one, an older lady was asking her instructor about some of the “technical language” he was using and why... his response was that level I instructors basically just needed to be able to ski properly, and that because of the work required to get to level II, he was happy just being at I. But obviously, from her question, he wasn’t connecting with her in his instruction.

He didn't even answer the right question!

 

[Skisnow]

We had the same issue in Whistler with then 5 year old. Although I think it was plain old prejudice. We had a private lesson and were advised she was level 4.

Turned up for ski school five day camp and they saw her nationality and put her into level 3! They did move her up into level 4 the next day. I didn’t mind too much as I know some British people (okay all the British people I know) big up their skiing ability - most Brits claim not to need lessons, British non skiers if you ask them if they can ski will say “I don’t know I’ve never tried” apparently in the UK it’s a skill you’re either born with or not .

On the other hand I attended a camp in Switzerland some years ago and was put into the top level group. I asked to be moved down as I was post injury and uncomfortable skiing the terrain they were skiing. The instructor advised technically I was the best in even that group but understood my concerns and obliged. Although my technique was much stronger than the lower group the new instructor was able to tailor specific exercises and drills for me so I still found lots of benefit from the lessons and had some great progression on my technique over the week. A good instructor should be able to do this, tailor drills and exercises to the individual. However if skiing trickier terrain you may still have a bit of waiting around which can be frustrating.

Is there an option to book onto a multi day camp that way you can be moved between the groups on the next day?