ski boot/ski flex food for thought

[Gloria]

I went on a ski trip this weekend with women of various abilities. I found myself skiing alot more on the beaten path than I normally do which meant alot more groomers and alot more bumps. I worked really hard to keep my skis arced and intact from tip to tail in the bumps which led me not only to hugely swollen ankles, but to the conclusion that the flex on my boots was too soft in relation to my skis. Essentially the boot was flexing into more of a V and cutting into my ankles as opposed to an arc. As I paid more attention it seemed that the stiffness of my skis was really out of whack compared to my boots. Any thoughts, advice? I know there is alot of talk about boot fitting as a first step and ski then ski demoing as a second step, but what about the relationship between the boot and ski?

 

[Jilly]

What boot and ski combination are you using? Also some boots can have the flex changed. Check the back of the boot or on the side. My boots have a flex adjuster on the back. It says soft (walk) or hard (ski). Personally I don't see much of a difference and I've kept them on hard or ski. Some older boots have a wedge like piece on the side of the boot that doesn't allow the boot to flex forward.
Also the problem could be stance, but without seeing you ski, that's hard to tell. Too much knee drive isn't good either, but if the boots are allowing it, then you're right the boots are too soft.

 

[Gloria]

What boot and ski combination are you using? Also some boots can have the flex changed. Check the back of the boot or on the side. My boots have a flex adjuster on the back. It says soft (walk) or hard (ski). Personally I don't see much of a difference and I've kept them on hard or ski. Some older boots have a wedge like piece on the side of the boot that doesn't allow the boot to flex forward.
Also the problem could be stance, but without seeing you ski, that's hard to tell. Too much knee drive isn't good either, but if the boots are allowing it, then you're right the boots are too soft.

Salomons huh? It sounds like we have similiar boots. I monkeyed with the adjustments down to the one I needed a allen wrench for but no avail. My boots are quite honestly spent, I am hanging in until January when I can afford new ones. Which IS a huge part of the problem, but the relationship between the skis and boots was interesting to say the least. I will definately keep it in mind when I do purchase. Of course I have some new more forgiving skis under the tree.....Oops I am not suppose to know about those.
Knee drive was also probably a contributing factor. The snow was variable from deep heavy tufts to blue ice with bumps in between so I was definately keeping a lower stance and the stiffer tails ( Volkl 724 pros ) on these skis keep me pretty honest and over the tips in the bumps, or else...
Of course I probably could have gotten away with a little less attack. I will have to pay attention to this next time I go out. I do tend to carry some of my snowboarding habits into my skiing from time to time, I probably could afford to stand up a bit more. Excellent advice thank you!

 

[smpayne]

I got new boots last year and spent the $$ to get them from a good shop that knew what they were doing as far as fit. It made a huge difference. Since then, I have noticed that I like to adjust the flex depending on the conditions and the skis I'm using.

I have two pair of skis (same size), one pair are really stiff while the other pair are much softer and wider. I found myself locking up the flex on my boots and tightening the power strap with the softer skis. When I was on the stiffer skis, I would completely undo the power strap and unlock the flex. However, last weekend when the snow was fairly fluffy vs hard pack, things worked better when I put more flex in the boot, even when on the softer skis. The fact that it was also my first out for the season probably made a difference as well.

Boots that are fit properly, by someone who knows what they are doing is AWESOME!!!!! Best money I ever spent on ski equipment.

 

[Kano]

Interesting thread!

I didn't understand that the ski/walk adjustment gizmo was for while skiing -- my take on that was that it's for letting me straighten up more when walking. There's the slider thing on the side of my old boots (yes, old boots, not going on MY feet again!) for adjusting the amount of flex in them (the choices: soft and softer).

The idea of how we combine the two has piqued my curiosity.

While boot shopping yesterday, well, actually, it was a hardware acquisition. Shopping seems so non-committal... Anyway, while in the boot shop, working through the acquisition process with Marshall, by the way, is it a good idea to make sure it's always Marshall, not some other guy at the shop?, we talked about how I'd gotten those old ones when I started skiing, and that I'm currently skiing K2 True Luvs, and first he put me in the pretty purple/white Langes (I did want them to work) and then said no, he wanted me in a stiffer boot and moved me up into the not quite as pretty charcoal gray boot. (they'll do, they co-ordinate better with my skis and pants) There is, of course, more to the boot acquisition story, but that's a different thread, I'm sure.

The point, or question, was -- is this boot/ski relationship something he considered when picking a boot for me, since he knew what I'm skiing on (will be when there's snow, dang it!) or was it solely in my ankles?

SMPayne, I have to agree with you, and I haven't even been out on these yet! Boots that fit like boots should fit are delightful!

Kano

 

[Little Lightning]

I had a pair of Salomon boots that I thought fit well. After a period of time I started to get pressure between the top of my foot and my shins and they would buckle when I flexed the boot.

I thought they were too soft for me but my bootfitter, a diferent one, said they were to wide.

Now I look for the narrowest boot I can find.

 

[volklgirl]

Not a flex ajustment

The Ski/Walk feature is NOT a flex adjustment. What it does is release the back of the boot to allow for a more upright stance while walking. It does absolutely nothing to the forward flex of the boot. Skiing with your boots on the Walk setting is asking for a blown ACL because it allows your ankle to open too much, putting your shin in a too far back position and putting your ACL at risk.

 

[volklgirl]

I have two pair of skis (same size), one pair are really stiff while the other pair are much softer and wider. I found myself locking up the flex on my boots and tightening the power strap with the softer skis. When I was on the stiffer skis, I would completely undo the power strap and unlock the flex.

How do the sidecuts of the 2 skis compare? What about the combination of stiffness and sidecut? Here's why I ask:

Typically, a stiff ski will respond best with a stiff boot and vice versa.

However, the softer boot setting will "slow down" the response of a ski that's too stiff or has too drastic a side cut for your style. The reverse is also true. So, if you are trying to ski 2 dramatically different skis with the same style, that would explain your inverse boot stiffness relationship.

I ski my Karmas (my softest ski with the biggest turning radius) with my boots "softened" by leaving my buckles and powerstrap loosely fastened. However, to get my Racetigers to respond (my stiffest skis, but with a VERY similar sidecut), I have to stiffen-up the boots by firmly clamping all buckles and cranking on the power strap. Trying to ski the Racetigers without doing this will usually send me on my a** because those beasts will straightline without me! My slalom skis are fairly soft, but have a drastic sidecut so they require a stiffer boot as well to keep me on top of them as they slash itty-bitty turns with dizzying regularity.

 

[Gloria]

Alright so this is weird. I thought at the end of last season my boots seemed packed out and just generally softer. But you know by that time you are tight and trained and whatever. So when I jumped on my skis this year, I immediately felt like something was just wrong with my boots. As we were on a trip with a handful of people, dining and skiing and visiting etc. I didn't put alot of time into really investigating it. So last night I finally got the boots out and really inspected them. Both boots have an identical stress fracture on the inner shell/cuff. Essentially they are cracked, not all the way through, but gonna fall completely apart sometime soon. I for some reason thought I had bought these boots 5 years ago or so. After going rounds with my husband about it and ultimately digging out an old CC bill, they are not. I actually purchased these in Feb. 06! So still probably a little longer than alot of you keep boots, but still, to have them crack identically? I am pretty convinced that this is a flaw in either the material or design of the boot. Even though I am always game to ski something challenging or technical, I really am a mellow, calculated calm type of skier, I just don't have the Rah Rah in me to crack a couple pairs of boots like this. I mean maybe in my 20's but definately not now that I am more like 40. I don't want to cream the maker but those of you whom can read the context clues here, may want to check your boots that may be similiar as well.....

 

[Jilly]

Well that would cause the problem. New boots for you girl!!

 

[Gloria]

Well that would cause the problem. New boots for you girl!!

You can say that again! Looks like I am gonna be free-heeling til I get through the holidays and the next wave of small fortune comes my way...God forbid, I hope I don't end up decided I need a new pair of sickbirds or something when that time comes along....Crap.

 

[volklgirl]

Feb '06? Wow, not even 2 years old. I'd take them back to the shop where you got them with your receipt. I'm sure they're out of warranty, but the manufacturer may replace them anyway - if it's an issue with that model of boot, they may stand behind them regardless of age, or maybe the shop will give you credit towards new ones? Sure can't hurt to give it a try.....

 

[Gloria]

Feb '06? Wow, not even 2 years old. I'd take them back to the shop where you got them with your receipt. I'm sure they're out of warranty, but the manufacturer may replace them anyway - if it's an issue with that model of boot, they may stand behind them regardless of age, or maybe the shop will give you credit towards new ones? Sure can't hurt to give it a try.....

My exact thoughts. Unfortunately my SO put his foot down on this idea. He thinks they will take one look at the rest of the boots and think I am trying to scam them. Of course he adamantly insists that I cracked the boots not that they were flawed. I don't necesarily feel the need to go these rounds again with someone else, so I will write it off. I was planning on replacing them as soon as I could anyway, right this second just wasn't in the master plan. It'll work out in the end though. And they were from a season or so past model when I bought them and weren't terribly expensive, so I am just gonna cut my losses and try not to fret about it.

 

[sibhusky]

I actually purchased these in Feb. 06! So still probably a little longer than alot of you keep boots,

Is this a typo? The boots are less than two years old and you think it's okay that they cracked AND you think all of us get new boots every year?

I personally am NOT made of money. My last pair of boots had 399 days on them, I think that was around 8 years or something. They hadn't cracked but I was worried about the possibility, so I replaced them. I DO NOT look forward to getting new boots and can't imagine anyone would. There is always that 10 day break in period to go through, let alone all the shopping and fitting are returning for more fitting. Believe me, once my boots are dialed in, there is no way I go looking for new boots until I have a MAJOR issue.

I think you need to go back to the shop and complain. Unless you DROVE OVER the boots or someone used them as step stools there is no way they should be cracked after a piddly two years. And what do you mean that the shop will take one look at the rest of the boots and decide you are trying to scam them? I don't follow.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Sure doesn't sound right to me, either. My current boots date from about the same time, mid-season 06, and are just now starting to have symptoms of slight packing out in one forefoot - all else is good. Cracking? On both boots, same place? Something's up with that. Try to get some answers. What make/model are these boots?

 

[Gloria]

Let me clarify, I should not be calling this a crack, it is indeed a stress fracture, a fissure, that will some day grow up to be a crack...I think I explained that and then it easier to type and more fun to rant about cracks. Anyway Sibhusky, I was also alarmed in previous posts when reading that a boot should be expected to last 100 days, I got rid of the boots that I got in the 8th grade when I was in my mid 20's. Unfortunately I did do a little research and 100-180 ski days is the expectancy of a ski boot. These boots have at least 100 and close to 180 days on them. I live approximately 1 hour from the ski shop where I bought them, they were a couple model years old and deeply discounted, and honestly, they are shot in more ways than just this. Where I am certainly not made of money, it's like my husband said: What are you going to do walk into the store and say, I know theres holes in the liners and a chunk out of the heel and a gouge here and that metal thing on the side is dented, and they really are scratched up, but can I have my money back because there is a weak spot on the cuff here? If I have time in the am I will try to post a photo, it's not like I didn't get good use out of the boots, but posted because, I thought it would be worth pointing this out in case it was a flaw for others to know about and be weary of. I can relate to what you are saying though, I have lived here my whole life, and have used the majority of my equipment for an average of 10 years, not to mention, that last years model, is the newest I ever had.

 

[Gloria]

I also meant to add, appliances used to last alot longer too. Now they are the biggest 1st year warranty issue in the construction biz. We just don't make things like we used to, or where we used to. I will definately be keeping this in mind when I purchase next time. I definately think the shell material on these boots is inferior to any other I have ever owned.

 

[smpayne]

How do the sidecuts of the 2 skis compare? What about the combination of stiffness and sidecut? Here's why I ask:

Typically, a stiff ski will respond best with a stiff boot and vice versa.

However, the softer boot setting will "slow down" the response of a ski that's too stiff or has too drastic a side cut for your style. The reverse is also true. So, if you are trying to ski 2 dramatically different skis with the same style, that would explain your inverse boot stiffness relationship.

That is probably exactly what I am doing. I don't exactly know the side cut of my stiffer skis right now, but it says it has an 18mm radius. They like to go down hill with as few turns as possible. They are an older style with a 60 something waist. The straight down hill thing doesn't work as well on the small hill littered with boarders and terain features. The softer skis are 113/80/104 - a completely different ski.

Lately it has more to do with how my legs are working. A bit rusty after about 9 months with no snow. I don't think I had my boots set the same for more than 2 runs last weekend.
----
Stress Fracture in the boot after 2 seasons???? It wouldn't hurt to take them back to the shop when you are there to get new boots. If nothing else, they may offer a discount on the next pair. The worst they can say is no.

Does anyone think that maybe she over powers her boot? Could too much flex cause this type of fracture in a boot?

 

[Gloria]

I took these boots into a shop after skiing Saturday as one of our skis needed a little love. It was not the shop I bought them at, they had nothing to lose, and said no that wouldn't be covered by warranty more than likely. Ultimately when I bought the boots, I had not been on alpine skis for 10-13 years, but had skied for a good 18 years of my life. Getting back into the sport, I assumed I was more of an intermediate, and to answer your question, yes, I evidentially overpowered the boot.

 

[smpayne]

I guess it might be a relief to know the boots were not defective and a bit of an ego boost to know you can overpower boots enough to crack them.