Should I try narrower? Considering Volkl Flair 76 or Super Joy

[leia1979]

Hello divas! I seem to continually overthink my ski choices. I started with Head Absolut Joy (79mm) a month ago, and after demoing several models, I exchanged the AJs for the Nordica Wild Belle 84 DC. The Wild Belle is great in soft or uneven snow, but after reading some threads about learning skills on narrower skis, I wonder if I should try something narrower for harder conditions.

I'm in California, and most of the demos I've seen are 82mm and up. However, I came across someone selling a pair of gently used Volkl Flair 76s locally. I've also found a cheap demo pair of 2018 Head Super Joys (75mm) online. Both have system bindings. Would either of these be worth buying? I figure at a good enough price, I could re-sell them if I don't like them. Or I could be responsible and see if there's anything narrower to demo next season.

In terms of skill level, I'm mostly parallel and trying to get on edge more. I stick to green runs as I prefer gentle terrain. As the season is almost over, I plan to do a private lesson at the start of next season to advance my skills.

Edit: I should add that my skis prior to this season were 72mm underfoot--beginner Salomons from a decade ago.

 

[TiffAlt]

I have nothing to add, but this is me too! And also eyeing the Volkl Flair's! So if you do get them, I'd be very interested in your review.

#METOO

 

[Jilly]

I would try either. The Joys could be a little softer than the Volkl's.

I'm going to write, tonight, about my experience this weekend with wide (88) and narrower (68) skis.

 

[TiffAlt]

Edit: I should add that my skis prior to this season were 72mm underfoot--beginner Salomons from a decade ago.

Did you like these for the harder conditions you want the narrower skis for?

 

[TiffAlt]

I would try either. The Joys could be a little softer than the Volkl's.

I'm going to write, tonight, about my experience this weekend with wide (88) and narrower (68) skis.

Ooo, will be on the look out for it!

 

[leia1979]

Did you like these for the harder conditions you want the narrower skis for?

It's hard to compare. I had very soft boots with my old skis, and I got to the point that I had to push really hard to get my skis to do what I wanted, and while I still have my old skis, they don't work with my new boots. Also, I just don't really remember!

It kinda sucks that the only narrower skis that are easy to try are super basic rentals.

 

[Jilly]

You need to come east for a demo. Lots of narrow stuff early in the season.

 

[Jilly]

Ooo, will be on the look out for it!

It was an interesting experiment.

 

[TiffAlt]

It kinda sucks that the only narrower skis that are easy to try are super basic rentals.

Feel your pain - same here in Washington!

You need to come east for a demo. Lots of narrow stuff early in the season.

We really do! I'm so jealous!

 

[ceestan]

I am kind of confused about people thinking they need narrower skis to progress, especially people skiing on the west coast. I definitely agree that skiing a fat deeply-rockered ski meant for powder or off-piste can get in the way of learning to use your edges to turn your skis, but I very much disagree that the difference between an 84mm waist width ski and 74mm is going to revolutionize your carving.

I love buying skis, so if the point is to just buy more skis, all the power to you! But if you really want to improve your carving technique, just buy some lessons instead! Carving really only clicked for me after a few lessons and my instructors constantly badgering me about really pressuring my outside ski and steering with my inside ski. This happened after I went from a narrower 88mm ski to a 93mm ski. I don't think the waist width mattered, it was definitely the lessons and practice.

 

[ceestan]

Also! Yes I have seen the Deb Armstrong video. I love her and I think she makes some really great points, but I think she's making a differentiation between a rockered off-piste ski like the Sheeva 10 and a narrower frontside ski, not a differentiation between one frontside ski that is 84mm vs another that is 72mm.

 

[leia1979]

Thanks @ceestan! I appreciate your thoughts here, and I think I'm guilty of thinking if I just found the right ski, I'd magically get better. Or perhaps more realistically questioning if I made the wrong choice, because I do that in general!

I 100% need to invest in more lessons. I tried twice this year without success--a group lesson that was too easy and a private lesson that I thought I could share with my husband (and while I got a few good tips out of it, it was 80% for him). My husband has caught up to me enough now that I think we can share private lessons next season and both benefit.

 

[TiffAlt]

@leia1979 I've just realized we are also both on 84 waist skis! I'm on the Volkl Yumi 84. As for lessons - my husband and I are very different learners and I think I really benefited from having undivided attention on just me to really improve and take the next step. Just something to think about!

And @ceestan you do make a good point. They say to choose your ski based on what you ski, not what you want to ski. Out here in the west, our 84 waist skis are considered narrow and undoubtedly serve us well for most of our conditions.

Carving really only clicked for me after a few lessons and my instructors constantly badgering me about really pressuring my outside ski and steering with my inside ski.

This was exactly my breakthrough too!!!! I used to do nothing with the inside ski and driving with tht makes SUCH a difference! Little toe action too.

 

[echo_VT]

If your goal is getting on edge on green terrain on hardpack snow, the narrower ski is going to help you more than the 84 underfoot as you work to unlock that skill. Yes, it will depend on the type of ski too.

The conversation on the other thread is to counter what we are experiencing as consumers in stores and at the hill, what ski is often pushed on the ski learner, which is a ski much too wide.

84 typically is an all mountain ski, great for bumps, trees and off piste—based on your post, I’m not sure that’s your skill level? This will serve you well at that skill level. It’s also fine for progressing with lessons. In Deb’s video she talks about that as well.

When you say California I don’t know if you mean Tahoe where they often get dumps or bear mtn… hard to say on conditions.

like what was said above, it’s a great idea to have a ski for the conditions you will be skiing most often/most likely. If you can do a quiver, go for it.

If you plan to ski hardpack greens and want to get on edge, I’d recommend something narrower that will serve you at this stage for your goal on the terrain you’ll be on and in the conditions you’ll most often be skiing — this is a great goal if this is what you want to do!

 

[TiffAlt]

When you say California I don’t know if you mean Tahoe where they often get dumps or bear mtn… hard to say on conditions.

Pretty sure I recall @leia1979 saying she skied Kirkwood, which is in the Tahoe area.

I do wonder if the fact that the places around me don't even rent anything narrower than 78 waist means anything - and that's a standard rental. I'm not in CA as @leia1979 is, but I've seen much the same up here in Washington. I've literally not been able to find anything narrower to demo. I've seen one place that demo'ed the Volkl Deacon 74 but in sizes much too tall for me (started at 168).

I searched three shops when I went to Mt Bachelor and was unable to find anything for me under 82 waist.

It can't be that people in the West just do not learn to carve anymore can it? Cause I've seen plenty of what I consider carving. Did they have to wait until they were out of lessons or something?

 

[leia1979]

@TiffAlt you are correct--I make the rounds of various Tahoe resorts. And the shops here push stuff that is so wide. Like the times I went to rent the Black Pearl 82, I would get "Are you sure you don't want to 88?! How about the Mindbender 90C?" I think rental guy's head exploded when I told him my old skis are 72mm.

The condition I ski most is slush, and the Wild Belle 84 is great in slush. I picked it after demoing not because I was particularly looking for an all-mountain ski, but because it was super stable in lumpy slush yet still easy to turn. So in that respect, I have something that's good for the conditions I experience most often.

I'm just majorly second-guessing myself here. Also, I hate the icy mornings of slush days and wondered if a narrower ski would make me more comfortable. On Saturday, we skipped the more advanced green because we knew it would still be icy even in the afternoon and had no interest in both steeper and icy!

It sounds like the responsible course of action (as opposed to "buy all the skis!") would be to take a lesson next season, see how things go, and keep an eye out for anything on the narrower side to demo (because trying all the skis is still fun).

 

[TiffAlt]

I'm just majorly second-guessing myself here. Also, I hate the icy mornings of slush days and wondered if a narrower ski would make me more comfortable. On Saturday, we skipped the more advanced green because we knew it would still be icy even in the afternoon and had no interest in both steeper and icy!

Please don't feel you are alone here! I skip steeps that I know are going to be icy all the time. And soundly rival any foulmouthed sailor going down ones I know I shouldn't have, lol

While I know I have lots to learn and just stepping on a narrower ski won't make me the most beautiful carver ever, I can't deny how much more confident and how quickly I improved going from the Blizzard Black Pearl 88 to the Volkl Yumi 84. I don't think it's in my mind either, my husband literally comments on it all the time. So some proof that the ski can make a difference, but I know it's not a cure-all either.

 

[Jilly]

That may be the difference in the construction of the 2 skis too. It's not always about the dimensions/ski cut of the ski.

 

[santacruz skier]

The condition I ski most is slush

I ski mostly Tahoe with one or two out of state/country trips per year. I was at Heavenly last week and only a couple of days had some slush. There has been no ice and no slush all winter. As a matter of fact, conditions have been spectacular this season. I've been skiing 45+ years and this has been one of the best seasons ever. So, when were you skiing ice and slush? Last week?
BTW, your 84's are fine for Tahoe. I ski Sheeva 9's (92), Sheeva 10's (102 and skied them a lot this year) and Black Crows (97) did not ski them this year...

 

[kmb5662]

I used to own the Volkl Flair 76. It is a great non-demanding ski that is responsive a slow speeds, not punishing, and a simple wood core construction. It definitely has a speed limit but it's not a complete noodle, either and has a decent performance ceiling for what it is. I passed mine along after having mine for several years once I started to ski off-piste more and at higher speeds/more technical carving on groomers.

The Super Joy is going to be a bit more ski than the Flair. It has carbon and graphene added making it a bit stiffer. While I haven't personally skied the Super Joy, I have demoed the Absolute Joy and would say it's a pretty close comparison to the Volkl Flair 76 in terms of how it handled and doesn't have carbon like the Super Joy making it a little softer in flex.