Should I stay or move on?

[Little Lightning]

I'm participting for the second year in a program at Copper called Women's Wednesday.

The instructor I had last year was awesome, I learned a lot from her.
I decided to continue with her this year but the group isn't the same and I'm out skiing the others. Today I had to wait quite a long time while she was explaining technique with the other students. For me it's a pointer here and there. I enjoy practicing the drills but I today I felt that I didn't need to spend the time with explanation. When she points out something I understand what she is saying an can adjust my skiing to it. The others are still asorbing what she is teaching. My instructor is hinting that I should move to another group.

There are 3 other instructors at my level. One instructors group is by invitation only, so she's out for now. One group just wants to ski with no instruction, the 3rd instructor I don't know anything about.

A woman in my group today had skied with one of these instructors last year and she said the instructor would ask her what her focus was without giving her direction on what she should do. She didn't give her any suggestions or pointers. I've heard this from several others that my instructor is the only one who works on body position, technique etc.

I'm wondering if I should stay where I am. Am I mistaking no instruction for just free skiing or are they coaching assuming the student understands?

Our groups are considered "all mountain" and my instructor says I'm ready to ski bowls, etc. when they open. When terrain gets tougher I go back and forth between skiing well and going back to old habits. The pointers that I get from my current instructor help to keep me on track. I also have a serious fear of heights that is going away as I improve my skills.

I have plenty of opportunity to ski the mtn with my friends, however, I find that my comfort level grows when I'm with an instructor.

On one hand I know that my skiing will improve with my current instructor but I'm worried the others in the group will hold me back.
We all have the same goals, can ski the runs but with a variety of skills.

I'm paying alot for these lessons, work hard on my technique and expect to see myself become a better skier. Am I hurting myself by staying with an instructor that I have confidence in but teaches a lower skill level or should I move on to less instruction and a wider variety of skiing terrain? WWYD?

 

[sibhusky]

I think in the long run if this instructor doesn't tailor her instruction for EACH individual, you will feel you lost a lot of money. I think you go to the ski school, tell them what you are looking for and they either put you in the right class or they return your money.

I've stayed in a class where I out-skied all the others because I liked the instructor. But when the season ended I didn't feel like I got my money's worth and I knew it was my own fault.

 

[altagirl]

Yeah, you've got to be in the right group - skiing with better skiers is going to help you progress. I'd jump up to the higher level group and see how it goes. If it doesn't work for you, you can always change again. That would be better than just waiting around and hoping to catch a tip every now and then in instruction you're paying for.

 

[Little Lightning]

The best group is "invitation only" and they are very good skiers. I think they've been with the program for a few years. I saw a couple of the women from one group free skiing last Friday and they had not changed at all. One women looked tenative on a run I had skied confidently, that's the "let's just ski" group.

The problem is they allow participants to "move themselves up to groups" without instructor recomendations. The other problem is that some groups are very clicky and they dictate what the group does.

I've skied for years with people who are comfortable going down a black run but don't have the skill to do it. I have no interest in that type of skiing.

Someday I would like to be part of that invitation only group.

I'm thinking I should email the director and ask where I belong. However, I don't want to upset my instructor. I just want to continue learning and getting better.

 

[Kano]

Little Lightning --

Perhaps the person to ask is your instructor? You value the knowledge you've been gaining from her, and can probably trust that her suggestion will be good. Her goal is to help her students become better skiers. She knows the other instructors that she works with and will know, from working with you, who can help you most. Your progression should make her proud -- she's succeeding!

Kano

 

[Pequenita]

Perhaps the person to ask is your instructor?

That's what I was thinking, too, as you also mentioned that she was hinting that you go into another group. Since she was hinting at it, it seems logical to me to just bring it out into the open and find out from her what she thinks a good fit for you would be.

 

[abc]

Didn't you say your instructor hinted you ought to move to another group? I think you should simply ask her for advice as to which group would be best for you. And ask her explicitly if you're good enough to join the "invitation only" group. If she think you're good enough, maybe she can suggest the other intructor to "invite" you?

If after trying other instrutors and it's still not working out, I think you have the right to get your money back.

Or, instead of zero instruction, how about just booking your favorate instructor for privates? You don't have to do as long a lesson when it's one-on-one. So it may or may not cost all that much more.

Last, but not least. Does it have to be "all women" clinics???

 

[Jilly]

As an instructor you try to tailor your lesson to the middle of the class in a class situation. That said there are always skiers higher up and lower in the class. I try to work with everyone, push the lower ones, satisfy the middles and keep the upper ones content. Its hard if the difference is really large. Ask the instructor if she thinks you belong in another group. Or will the group catch up with you? If its move then ask her recommedation as to which instructor and could she pave the way to get into that group. She knows that you feel out of place, trust me on that one. I'd know.

 

[Little Lightning]

Thanks Jilly, that's what I've been trying to sort out. I'm a retired teacher and I know something about the learning process. For me it took a lot of work to change, every time I skied I worked on a skill, played with different ways of doing things and practiced a lot to facilitate change. I know that every one learns in a different way but being on the other side I don't know how to judge where I stand in relation to every one else..

We just started last week so maybe it's too soon to tell and maybe by the end of the season we'll all level out together. One of the reasons why I don't want to leave my instructor is that her speciality is bumps. She skis them so beautifully and has already taught me a lot.

I don't believe in moving to another group without my instructors recommendations although it is allowed.

My Significant Other believes that if I discuss this with the director I'll set the stage for my requirements for a different instructor but I agree my instructor can best determine my needs.

Last year in the middle of the year I got frustrated with my progress only to realize I wasn't doing what I was being taught. I worked hard after that to make change and don't want to lose the progress I've made.

Each group determines their needs so even if I changed I may not get my needs met.

It's also not clear to me if I need actual instruction or just more practice time with guidance.

And yes, it has to be a women's group. The price is right and no men's ego's to deal with. These are the only lessons that run for the entire ski season and nothing like this is offered for unisex or men.

I want to grow within this group and am trying to keep my ego from convincing me I'm better than I really am.

 

[Jilly]

First week, that was one question I meant to ask. It could be that you've been out on your skis, where the rest of the class was first day, first time new equipment etc. Talk to the instructor and tell her you really want to stay with her. I sure she'll work with you. And talk to her first, not the director. I like to work things out first at my level before going higher up. If is was a major complaint that I had voiced with the instructor and got no where, then I'd go to the director.

 

[Little Lightning]

Thanks Jilly,

I'm a retired teacher and there was resentment among the staff when parents went to the adminstration first before discussing issues with their child's teacher.

It was the standing around that got me. I could also help myself by practicing drills while I'm waiting.

I'm getting better at analyzing my own needs but still miss some important things.

This year I got new boots, had a ski and boot alignment and am still trying to get my muscles to adjust to the changes. She picks up little things that I'm missing because of the changes.

One woman in my group taught herself to ski. Right now my instructor is spending a good amount of time with her.

Do groups ever match completely? I often see a wide variety of skills within each group I see on the mtn.

Also, our group goals are to ski the whole mtn well, but that means different things to different people. Every one in this group has stated that technique is their primary goal and this instructor is very good for that. The women are aggressive skiers and in time they will be very good skiers. It's just that I'm a year ahead of them. Also, I could be overstating my ability.

For me this instructor has set a very high standard and it's hard to give that up.

I emailed her last night, it'll be interesting what she says.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Little Lightning --

Perhaps the person to ask is your instructor? You value the knowledge you've been gaining from her, and can probably trust that her suggestion will be good. Her goal is to help her students become better skiers. She knows the other instructors that she works with and will know, from working with you, who can help you most. Your progression should make her proud -- she's succeeding!

Kano

Ditto!

 

[Quiver Queen]

I'd ask your instructor for advice about moving on. Just a thought--if you're not far from Aspen, DiDi Lawrence has a weekly ski group there that pushes its limits and sounds really fun. You can PM me for her contact info.

 

[Elangirl]

I'm with Jilly on this one too---talk with your instructor. I usually know when a student needs to move--for whatever reason---and, I know the other instructors very well and so can make a recommendation for the student. If you feel antsy in the class, I am sure that your instructor is aware of it and is probably waiting for you to initiate the conversation about moving.

It is so hard sometimes with group---the women might all say that they want to go off groomed--but, if there is one person who technique is not up to the level of the others, it may feel unsafe to the instructor to take her off groomed. Also, last year, I had a student who was afraid of height who would "freeze" on the off groomed.

For me, safety has to be the primary factor. I can't move to off groomed if I feel that a student will be at risk if I do so. The invitation only group sounds like it might be too advanced for you----and I am always amazed at students who want to spend money for a "no instruction" class. Perhaps the unknown third group will be perfect for you!!

But, I will say that there is always room to work on technique---and if you are skiing much faster than everyone else--it would be better for you to take more time and work on your turns than to speed down the run and wait at the bottom. It is difficult if there is one person who is taking up a lot of the instructor's time---I am always open with my students when they want to talk about this type of thing--and it is the instructor's job to be honest to you about your skiing. So, if she thinks you need more work on technique,perhaps the two of you could develop some goals for the season.

 

[Gloria]

I would also recommend talking with your instructor as well as following your gut instinct. The instruction may change significantly over the next couple of lessons. The instructor may have been following a method that works for her to assess each skiers individual strengths and weaknesses for the first lesson or so. She may tell you that she thinks you may be a stronger skier and benefit from moving to another group or that the course of instruction will change now that she has had the opportunity to assess you all as individuals. Secondly, I would use your gut instinct. I went to a clinic a few years back with some friends. I had not been on alpine equipment for several years but had a good solid background. I was visibly put in the high group, but ended up asking to be moved down. I kept catching myself forgetting that my heel was attached and trying to throw out tele turns every now and again, plus mentally I just felt like I shouldn't be in that group yet. I really felt like it would benefit me more to slow down to a point where I could not only absorb the instruction but to apply to the snow without feeling pressured. I ended up having a great time and learning alot this way as well. I think we are all a little different and you need to take your own personal traits in stride as well as your instructors comments regarding the situation. A thoughtful combination of both should land you in the right group.

 

[Little Lightning]

Thanks for all your advice. I did hear back from my instructor and she's going to meet with the director and she if there's a better match. The group sizes are limited to 6 so that may present some problems.

I'm at a point where I'm developing a variety of skills. In many situations I can see what I need to do. I'm taking movements that I learned last year and putting them together. Things are making sense to me, I zipped down blue bumps at Keystone the other day and I couldn't do that last year. The only reason I stopped was to check on my significant other!

I can ski at varied speeds and sometimes out ski the men but I can also slow down for a slower skier.

But, I skied Blue Sky Basin at Vail with a group of guys who just bombed the runs, fast, muscling their way down. I found that I couldn't just let go like they do and I had to focus on every turn. Some turns were great others were my old habits. It was interesting, one guy always seemed to follow me. He wasn't annoying close or out of control but seemed to follow wherever I went.

The change that I saw with Blue Sky was that it wasn't intimating to me. No matter what the situation I knew what to do with it., my turns weren't perfect but I was turning all the way down.

What I don't know is does this mean I will have the same confidence on steeper, tougher runs or will I let fear take over and have a set back?

I feel that I haven't proven myself on upper level terrain and that's where the insecurity comes in. The skills aren't so ingrained that I do them on difficult terrain. When and where do movements start feeling natural? How long does one stay on easy terrain before things start working on tougher terrain?

I still need someone to "coach" me and give me support on terrain that I have frozen on for so long.

My instructor and I are going to meet this Wed. before class to discuss what to do.

 

[pixie]

I just found this blog and I'm interested in what you're talking about because I'm a part of the Womens Wednesday program at Copper Mountain. I'm confused about a few things that LL has said because I have only had the very best experience in the program. I'm always encouraged to talk to my instructor, try new groups if I want to work on different skills or terrain.These instructors go out of their way to make sure everyone is happy with their placement and only want the participants to progress and feel successful with their skiing. I started in this program as a first time skier 5 years ago and love this program and these people as a part of my family. I was also very surprised to read that LL thinks the program is expensive it works out to be $23.00 a day for 5 hours of instruction. I don't think you can find anything cheaper and get the same instruction, flexibility, friendship, and all around experience anywhere else. How can blogging with strangers be a substitute for talking with your own instructor?

 

[Robyn]

I just found this blog and I'm interested in what you're talking about because I'm a part of the Womens Wednesday program at Copper Mountain. I'm confused about a few things that LL has said because I have only had the very best experience in the program. I'm always encouraged to talk to my instructor, try new groups if I want to work on different skills or terrain.These instructors go out of their way to make sure everyone is happy with their placement and only want the participants to progress and feel successful with their skiing. I started in this program as a first time skier 5 years ago and love this program and these people as a part of my family. I was also very surprised to read that LL thinks the program is expensive it works out to be $23.00 a day for 5 hours of instruction. I don't think you can find anything cheaper and get the same instruction, flexibility, friendship, and all around experience anywhere else. How can blogging with strangers be a substitute for talking with your own instructor?

Well, I'll pipe up here and say that many of the people on this bulletin board have met and skied together so they are not all strangers. It sounds like you are taking Little Lightening's possible misfit personally which it should be at all. We all have very different skiing and learning styles and sometimes a program isn't a fit.

 

[KatyPerrey]

Talk with your instructor and give her/the group a chance! The program just started and I'm sure changes will be made if that's what needs to be done!!!

 

[Little Lightning]

Thanks Robyn for your understanding,

Pixie, this is my second year in the program. I worked with this instructor last year and our group progressed dramatically from what we were. This year it looked like a lot of the women went to the same instructors which is what I did. However, the core of my group changed. We are repeating many of the things I worked so hard on. I don't know the instructors or how the other groups ski. My impression is that the others groups do the steeps and bowls and like to move as fast as they can. I'm not sure I'm ready to move fast though tougher terrain.

My goal is to ski the steeps and bowls with confidence and good skill. Flying down the mtn as fast as one can go doesn't do it for me. So I need an instructor that can help me develop the skill and confidence with tougher terrain.

So where will I make the greater gain? Continuing to work on skills on lower level terrain or challenging myself on tougher terrain even though what I've accomplished is not second nature at this point?

I ski 3-5 times per week and take what I've learned in my lessons and incorporate them into my skiing. I've worked very hard on improving my skiing skills and don't want to lose what I've gained.

I do believe this is a wonderful program and inexpensive. My concern is that by waiting for others am I getting what I paid for? Many of us are struggling with old habits learned from years of skiing with outdated techniques and trying to get muscle memory to change those well ingrained patterns. Progression depends on the individual and how devoted they are to creating change in themselves.
I can't predict how the others will progress so I have to look out for myself and find the group that is right for me. It may turn out that I'm with the best group.

Anyway, my instructor knows me and will help me make the best decision. Also, thank you Divas as this discussion has helped me clarify what my needs are and help me determine the best course of action.