Question: Short & narrow skis - any thoughts & advice please?!

[florentinella]

Hi All,
Just a bit of background to my question: I have been skiing for 10 years now, but it's only 1-3 weeks max every season. I'm a solid blue skier, I occasionally ski on red runs but I prefer slow & long rather than steep & fast. I'm 51 years old and had an ACL injury (in my first year of skiing!), so I'm rather cautious.

Conditions / location: I live in New Zealand, so mostly go to Cardrona near Queenstown or Mount Hutt near Christchurch. The conditions are similar though. The slopes are groomed - but nothing like Europe (I have never been to US, Canada or Japan so cannot compare to those) The cover is often thin, with moulds and bumps. I keep to the trails rather than going off piste. Having said that - we rarely get powder conditions! I'm attaching a couple of random photos downloaded from the web to give you an idea of the conditions.

Equipment - after years of renting and trying various skis, a few years ago I bought Faction Dancer 1 (it's a 2023/24 model) in 162cm, 120/86/110mm. I'm 164cm tall.
Here is the link to the test I loved them (and still do!) vs anything else I tried at the time (Rossignol Experience, K2 mindbender, Black Crows Captis, Salomon QST, Total Joy, Volkl Kenja, Santa Ana, Atomic Maven, Black Pearl). At the time I also liked Black Crows Divus - but they got discontinued so couldn't get a pair.
Amongst all this was also a pair of Fisher RC One GT 82 in 159. Loved it - but thought they were too narrow and too short for me so ended up with Factions.

In January I was in Europe and had 3 days skiing on Volkl Peregrine RXT 147cm, 125/76/105. I think they were standard rentals, nothing special - but OMG I loved them! So easy, light, but stable. They were fun. They are 10mm narrower and 15cm shorter than my Factions and I'm confused?!

Were they so easy to ski because conditions / trails were better groomed / easier?
Or are my Factions just too long for me and should I look for something similar?
I have been thinking of changing my Factions this year anyway, but now I'm wondering if I should go against the general advice in NZ - the "experts" here want you to get fat skis of your height.
What are the recommendations in your countries?
What are your preferences?
Thanks for any comments!

 

[Jilly]

Shorter skis are easier to turn and narrower are easier to get on edge. But they lack stability at speed unless they are really stiff.

I'm the same height as you, but a very technical skier (CSIA L2), My daily driver is a tuned down race ski, Rossi Hero ST Ti, in 161. It's 68 underfoot. I also have the Rossi Forza 70 which is 76 underfoot. I think they are 162.

Our conditions in eastern Canada are very similar to yours. Snow, mostly groomed to ice and little chance of any off piste.

For interest, I sold my Rossi Temptations (now the Experience) as I found them too soft and didn't like them. Also I sold off my Santa Anna, as all I felt I could do with them was slide and not carve. All in all my knees don't like wide skis. The Forza's are enough.

The Volkl's are a totally different skis than the Factions. They might be a better fit for you. That's why the Diva mantra is demo, demo and demo again.

 

[liquidfeet]

Equipment - after years of renting and trying various skis, a few years ago I bought Faction Dancer 1 (it's a 2023/24 model) in 162cm, 120/86/110mm. I'm 164cm tall.
....
In January I was in Europe and had 3 days skiing on Volkl Peregrine RXT 147cm, 125/76/105. I think they were standard rentals, nothing special - but OMG I loved them! So easy, light, but stable. They were fun....
...They were easy because of they are made to bend easily and their waist width is 76 instead of 86.

When you tip skis on edge, they bend in order for the middle to reach down to the snow surface. If the ski were tipped on edge but unbent, that waist in the hourglass shaped ski would be up in the air.

Narrow skis - those with a waist width below 80 (or even below 70) - bend and reach notable curvature quicker than skis with a wider waist. With your 85 waisted skis, you tip them and they bend, but it takes more time to get to the same amount of bend as a narrower ski. [There must be a better way to word that but I can't figure out what it is.]

The bend in the ski helps the ski travel in a curve. So your narrow-waisted rental skis started along a curved path immediately, without any wait period. Your turns felt easier because of that. They ski contributed to the turns quicker and you could feel it happening.

They would have done this had they been in the mid 160s in length, too. The length below 150 is unusually short. If you buy new skis, I'd suggest you look for a waist in the mid-70s and a length in the lower 160s.

 

[MBSki]

When you tip skis on edge, they bend in order for the middle to reach down to the snow surface. If the ski were tipped on edge but unbent, that waist in the hourglass shaped ski would be up in the air.

Narrow skis - those with a waist width below 80 (or even below 70) - bend and reach notable curvature quicker than skis with a wider waist. With your 85 waisted skis, you tip them and they bend, but it takes more time to get to the same amount of bend as a narrower ski. [There must be a better way to word that but I can't figure out what it is.]

The bend in the ski helps the ski travel in a curve. So your narrow-waisted rental skis started along a curved path immediately, without any wait period. Your turns felt easier because of that. They ski contributed to the turns quicker and you could feel it happening.

They would have done this had they been in the mid 160s in length, too. The length below 150 is unusually short. If you buy new skis, I'd suggest you look for a waist in the mid-70s and a length in the lower 160s.

Great explanation!

 

[marzNC]

Welcome! Paging @AJM , @Rashika .

Equipment - after years of renting and trying various skis, a few years ago I bought Faction Dancer 1 (it's a 2023/24 model) in 162cm, 120/86/110mm. I'm 164cm tall.
Here is the link to the test I loved them (and still do!) vs anything else I tried at the time (Rossignol Experience, K2 mindbender, Black Crows Captis, Salomon QST, Total Joy, Volkl Kenja, Santa Ana, Atomic Maven, Black Pearl). At the time I also liked Black Crows Divus - but they got discontinued so couldn't get a pair.
Amongst all this was also a pair of Fisher RC One GT 82 in 159. Loved it - but thought they were too narrow and too short for me so ended up with Factions.

In January I was in Europe and had 3 days skiing on Volkl Peregrine RXT 147cm, 125/76/105. I think they were standard rentals, nothing special - but OMG I loved them! So easy, light, but stable. They were fun. They are 10mm narrower and 15cm shorter than my Factions and I'm confused?!

For what it's worth, I'm 152cm and my all-mountain skis that are 85 underfoot are 159cm. Older advanced skier but was adventurous intermediate 15 years ago. However, the narrow skis I used as an intermediate started to ski more for skiing small hills in my home region (southeast USA) were mid-70s underfoot and 154cm. Now I have Volkl Yumi, 84mm, 147cm for hills where I stick to groomers (home mountain doesn't have any off-piste terrain, 100% snowmaking, 3 min per run).

Last season I bought the BP88 @152 instead of 159cm. I'd demo'd an earlier version of the BP88 @147 several years ago. Good fun in bumps at Taos.

I bought the Yumi skis from a petite Ski Diva. I'd demo'd Yumis before but not that short. They are perfect for where I use it.

I've only skied in Europe once and just for a few hours during late season. The skis I rented for Grands Montets in Chamonix were narrow and relatively short. Worked great since only the groomers were worth skiing. My daughter (mid-20s, advanced) is about my size. The skis they brought her were even shorter. Since she had been skiing very little after starting high school, she opted to keep them. I asked for one size longer. It was clear the ski shop folks didn't think we were tourists who weren't very good skiers.

As you'll soon see, the advice around here is to demo'ing is the best way to choose skis that are fun for you regardless of ability level. You know what type of terrain is of interest far better than any salesperson. Even as an intermediate who didn't know what "damp" or "stiff" or "narrow/fat" meant in terms of ski design, when I demo'd skis for a run or two I could tell which models were fun and which were too much work.

 

[tinymoose]

I'm not at all close to you in size (I'm 154 cm on a good day), but I ski a pair of 154 Faction Agent 1X's without issue so basically your Dancer but sans metal. I don't know your weight but given the skis are otherwise similar to mine sans the metal, I'd more suspect the stiffness vs length being the issue possibly?

I do find it interesting you liked the 147s b/c that's a pretty short ski for you given your height, but to Jilly's point, shorter skis are easier to turn but less stable. Looking them up, they're also much narrower at 76 vs the Dancer 1 in the mid-80s.

 

[AJM]

Ok so I'm 165cm and around 50kg (advanced on a good day and lower intermediate on others) and had a serious injury a few years ago and went much shorter, softer and narrower when I finally got back on the slopes in NZ. I ended up on the K2 Mindbender 85's. After a couple of seasons I bought a second hand pair of Volkl Flairs at 72cm underfoot and absolutely loved them so am a firm advocate of narrower is a whole heap more fun esp in our NZ conditions I took them out in nearly everything from our well known "firm" snowpack up to 25cm of fresh.

I've discovered that shorter is better for me so here's my breakdown of what I've got

K2 Mindbender 85's 156cm (my rehab skis)
Volkl Flair 72's 155cm (Surprisingly my most fun ski and the one I reach for the most)
Volkl Blaze 94's 158cm (Havent had them out yet but for soft snow days)

I love skiing off piste but also enjoy the trails as well .... I'm just happy when I'm skiing whatever the mountain wants to throw at me and I usually ski at Porters or Mt Hutt with the odd Clubbie day thrown in,.

I highly recommend that if you're close to or in Christchurch then you go pay my friends at Gnomes a visit and they will put you on the right track.

Please feel free to mention my name (Ali Marsh) as they know how I ski and what I like from a ski and that combined with your requirements will hopefully help you get the right ski for you xx

 

[Jilly]

One thing to remember is that most all mountain skis (Dancer, Blaze 94, ) all have some sort of rocker.

See here

So traditional cambered skis, Yumi, Peregine, my Hero's have more ski and edge on the snow. So they respond fast as there is more snow contact. Also why you can go shorter on this type of ski. Note some cambered ski will have "early tip rise", but its not near as pronounced as all mountain.

 

[HuntersEmma57]

If you travel to ski, call one of the local ski shops and inquire what the locals at your level of skiing typically ski on.

Know that most ski rental places will put women in shorter, softer skis by default. And over age 50, they absolutely fight you if you ask for longer skis. I always take my own skis - at least 2 pairs.

For me, knowing the type of snow is the biggest determinant of which skis to bring. Icy, freeze thaw, heavily skied groomers mean you will likely want to ski slower so shorter is ok and can be really fun. As others said, if you want to feel comfortable at higher speeds, you'll need some length.

Weight and strength matter greatly on ski sizing.

I'm 69, 5'5" muscular with a sturdy build and powerful legs. I ski mostly off trails and I live in powder country so I rock big dogs (178cm and 106mm underfoot as my daily driver).

On the increasingly rare times I leave my home mountain and have to learn new a new mountain, I obsessively watch the destination resort's weather and trail reports and decide which skis to take at the last minute. I always take 2 pairs of skis. I take a Day1 ski for when I am tentative and learning the mountain and getting the feel of the snow. It's generally narrower and shorter. Then I have the second pair to rip if the conditions permit.

Good luck and happy sliding!

 

[Rashika]

Hi All,
Just a bit of background to my question: I have been skiing for 10 years now, but it's only 1-3 weeks max every season. I'm a solid blue skier, I occasionally ski on red runs but I prefer slow & long rather than steep & fast. I'm 51 years old and had an ACL injury (in my first year of skiing!), so I'm rather cautious.

Conditions / location: I live in New Zealand, so mostly go to Cardrona near Queenstown or Mount Hutt near Christchurch. The conditions are similar though. The slopes are groomed - but nothing like Europe (I have never been to US, Canada or Japan so cannot compare to those) The cover is often thin, with moulds and bumps. I keep to the trails rather than going off piste. Having said that - we rarely get powder conditions! I'm attaching a couple of random photos downloaded from the web to give you an idea of the conditions.

Equipment - after years of renting and trying various skis, a few years ago I bought Faction Dancer 1 (it's a 2023/24 model) in 162cm, 120/86/110mm. I'm 164cm tall.
Here is the link to the test I loved them (and still do!) vs anything else I tried at the time (Rossignol Experience, K2 mindbender, Black Crows Captis, Salomon QST, Total Joy, Volkl Kenja, Santa Ana, Atomic Maven, Black Pearl). At the time I also liked Black Crows Divus - but they got discontinued so couldn't get a pair.
Amongst all this was also a pair of Fisher RC One GT 82 in 159. Loved it - but thought they were too narrow and too short for me so ended up with Factions.

In January I was in Europe and had 3 days skiing on Volkl Peregrine RXT 147cm, 125/76/105. I think they were standard rentals, nothing special - but OMG I loved them! So easy, light, but stable. They were fun. They are 10mm narrower and 15cm shorter than my Factions and I'm confused?!

Were they so easy to ski because conditions / trails were better groomed / easier?
Or are my Factions just too long for me and should I look for something similar?
I have been thinking of changing my Factions this year anyway, but now I'm wondering if I should go against the general advice in NZ - the "experts" here want you to get fat skis of your height.
What are the recommendations in your countries?
What are your preferences?
Thanks for any comments!

Hey there! Nice to meet another kiwi. I probably can't help too much with the ski choice as I'm quite a different spec to you being way taller but I have found that in our conditions the best thing you can do is just try to demo lots of different skis, types and lengths.we are lucky in that most of our mountains get demos either when the different sellers visit or the mountains will have hires that you can try before you look at buying.
Take some time to decide cos it is a big outlay.
And I'm so happy with my ski choice, I have c6 Apollo skis, kiwi made in raetihi and I just love them. I spent two weeks in Japan in Feb with my middle range 86mm wide Apollo's, a bit worried as they weren't as fat as others have but they made the grade with ease. Skied groomers and a little off piste, side of the groomers and they were perfect. And I have to say, Japan was amazing!!

Welcome!!

 

[teppaz]

Just for anecdote, I’m 5’7” and around 180, pretty athletic, and I have the Santa Ana 97 and the Rossi Experience Ti 86 in 167 both. Last season I borrowed a friend’s Head Supershape Rally (78 waist) in 156 and had a blast on very hard-packed groomers with occasional ice. Super sturdy, responsive. I would never have expected a ski to be so stable at speed at that length. Goes to show so much depends on the build.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

Greetings @florentinella! I hope snow is finally flying in NZ!

Last season I fell in love with my Stockli Montero AS at 76. It is my favorite ski for frontside firm and/or icy conditions. I have other skis for different conditions, i.e., softer, deeper snow, and heavy slush (though the AS were pretty dang good in heavy slush because of their heavier weight and sturdy construction).

For someone working on form and movement advancement I don't think you can beat a narrower ski. Because it takes less effort to turn and maneuver a narrower ski I find it easier to isolate movements, to work on turn initiation/crossover/shape, etc. I'm not talking about a super narrow, super stiff race ski, but a good recreational ski in the sub-80 category. Due to my age (66) and preferences (I don't ski fast), I like to ski short. My AS is a 160. (I'm 5'6", 145, athletic, advanced).

Next season I'll be trying out the Blizzard Thunderbird R14 CA Sport (76). They are lighter weight and less stiff than the AS. I wanted something for working on form that wouldn't be as demanding as the AS.

Unfortunately, I'm not in an area where I can demo easily, so I pick up skis based on reviews and personal input. If they don't work out, I'm usually able to break even or sometimes make a profit on reselling them, but it is a roll of the dice.