Setbacks

[ski now work later]

:( Ever go on a ski trip and come back more hesitant and insecure about your skiing? That's what happened to me this past week in Big Sky, Montana. The week before the trip, I took a lesson at Stratton and my (female) instructor curtly told me that my 163 Attiva AC3s were much too long for me (I'm just under 5'7", an intermediate aspiring to advanced skiier, and thought I would outgrow the 156s too soon as they reach my lower chin when I'm in a boot). I then spent the next week obsessing about the length of those skis. All of my research, including on this site (which is how I found it), and the salespeople that I've talked to, have reassured me that I picked the right length for my height, weight, and skill level.

The first day at Big Sky (2/10), my sister-in-law ran me ragged on the hill and I exhausted myself skiing about 4+ hours, concluding with a black diamond bump run that was ridiculously hard. Thank God my husband and I were taking an anti-altitude med. or I would have been toast. So, the next day, I took a bumps class and was very muscle tired and felt pretty incompetent. Couldn't get my skis to turn in any kind of fluid manner, but I did learn a lot. I hate being the worst in a group of two, however!

The following day we had a big powder dump so I took a powder class with 2 men, one of whom was an expert skiier from Texas (need I say more). The other guy must have fallen about 25 times during the lesson, so at least I wasn't the worst in the group. Again, I learned a lot but dealt with more exhaustion and found it hard to even keep my skis under me at the right distance from each other as the powder was wetter and heavier than they usually get. Falling sure was soft though. I had trouble controlling my speed and started turning uphill (old bad habit) to slow down, and put a lot of strain on my left knee (I never have knee issues). The class ended with a very steep black narrow trail with bumps that I clumsily went down one lurch at a time.

By the last (4th) day, I was very tired, and bought a knee support to get through that day. I did some relaxing long-radius turns on groomers, but was extremely self-conscious and hesitant on the other runs (not much is groomed out there). This past Saturday, I skiied with my kids at my local mountain and felt myself much more hesitant than before my Big Sky trip. I'm heading out again with them tomorrow and am going to try to relax and feel more power and fluidity and keep moving the energy downhill.

So, Divas, who has experienced this type of set back when you have challenged yourself? I still have a number of ski days left and am planning to take my first park lesson at Stratton next week, so I need my nerve back!

 

[ski diva]

I think what you're experiencing is pretty common. If your used to skiing groomers, and all of a sudden you're dropped into 12 inches of fresh powder, of course you're going to have problems. You definitely did the right thing by taking lessons. All you need is more time to practice what you've learned. Remember when you were first learning to ski? It's the same thing. I think the pressure to get good at something really fast -- i.e. when you only have a limited amount of time, as you did at Big Sky -- exacerbates the problem and leads to a crisis in confidence. You're the same skier you were before -- heck, you're a better skier because you're working at expanding your horizons and mastering something new. Give yourself some credit. You deserve it!

 

[Lori_K]

Well, first off I'd say the Attiva AC3 in a 163 is just fine. I demo'd those exact skis in December, and I'm shorter than you are! (I ended up buying the Attiva S5 because I already had an all-mountain ski.).

Anyway, regarding your "setbacks"-- I don't know that you had a major setback, it just sounds to me like you bit off a lot more than you could chew! 1) skiing at atltitude out west 2) bumps class 3) powder class -- that's a lot of work! After getting tired the first couple days, sure you're going to feel out of sorts and sloppy. All that new terrain would be a workout for anyone not used to it.

I spent the last five years skiing upstate New York, and this is my first season out west. It is REALLY different here. Sure, I got down the hardpack groomers pretty easily, but many of the blue runs here are more like black runs out east. And I didn't really get adjusted to the altitude at Taos until my 7th or 8th day out. Hiking terrain still gets me terribly winded. And I know what you mean about groomed terrain here. There are NO GROOMED BLACK RUNS at Taos. And that seems to be pretty common among the other resorts out here.

So, I know where you're coming from. Sounds like you jumped straight into things at Big Sky, instead of giving yourself a day or so to get adjusted to the altitude and get your confidence up skiing some easier groomed terrain. But anyway, the points you learned in your lessons will stick with you, just may need some time to get absorbed. When you get back on your home mountain, take some time and work on the fundamentals to get your form (and confidence) back. Keep the turn shapes nice, watch your pole plants, and focus down the mountain.

It can be humbling to get into new terrain and feel like a total newbie again, but you will definitely be better for the experience. And each time it gets a little bit easier, and a little bit easier after that. I think you did a great job skiing four days straight at Big Sky, at altitude.

 

[ski now work later]

Thanks. I knew this intellectually, but needed to hear it from you! I went to Big Sky in '05, my first season, and could barely make it down a green, so I kept reminding myself of the progress I've made since. I also highly recommend Diamox (trade name) for altitude. It made all the difference. No headaches, sleep problems, and I didn't get too winded. It was my muscles that were aching!

 

[Quiver Queen]

Give yourself a break and don't beat yourself up! Advances in skiing generally come in small increments, and we're talking big chunks here. Also, the brain most effectively handles just a few new instructions at a time, so multiple instructions over multiple days can cause confusion. Break down the instructions into bite-sized pieces and take some notes you can refer to later so you'll be able to unscramble at a more leisurely pace all that's been thrown at you this week. You might also want to re-think having another lesson at Stratton so soon after you get back.

Also, Diamox isn't without side effects, and isn't generally recommended for empiric altitude use.

 

[Little Lightning]

I go though this every week. I ski on Tues. feel great about myself or have an "ah ha" experience. Then I go to my class on Wed. By the end of the day I'm feeling very discouraged, I feel like I'm a beginner again. For awhile I was thinking the lessons were causing me to regress.

Finally, I realized that I am a learner, that it takes me time to process what we work on, and I need to practice the new skills.

Kathi

 

[smpayne]

I had the same problem earlier this month when I went to Utah. I suddenly felt like a beginning skier again. My first day out, the only groomed runs I could find were the greens or narrow trails that required a lot of pushing and skating. The last two years, my local hill has not had enough snow to even get moguls, much less the moster ones I found in Utah on the Blue runs. It was VERY humbling. My fearless husband encouraged me to try them and I did and had fun and learned a lot.

By my third day, I was so tired and my legs were so sore that I quit after only 2 1/2 hrs. I think the soft snow and tackling bumps when I wasn't used to them was exahusting. I don't think I was too bothered by the altitude (maybe a little), I'm used to skiing at 7000-8000 feet and going home to sea level in the same day.

 

[Thatsagirl]

I just wanted to chime in and reiterate a few things. ;)

1) I disagree with your instructor at Stratton. Your skis are just right for you and for your aspirations. Jeez, I'd hate to hear what she thinks about me skiing on a 168 when I'm only 5'4" and 145 lbs.

2) You were at altitude, which affects everyone differently. It sounds like you were suffering exhaustion from altitude, which made everything exceptionally difficult for you and hence you got very tired.

3) Skiing in ungroomed is tough to adjust to. Chances are you probably ski a bit in the back seat, which strains knees, thighs, calves, quads, etc. It feels like you've been run over by a truck. I would focus on those things you learned about staying centered over your skis. If anything, it will be easier to get that down pat here in the East, where you can practice on groomers.

4) Whenever at high altitude, you should stay hydrated, drink lots and lots of water. Not only does that help with headaches, it helps with muscle fatigue.

5) I guarantee that if you tell yourself to ignore all the feelings of incompetence at Big Sky, you'll suddenly realize how much you have improved your skiing. You pushed your limits. You will certainly gain from that.

So, all that said, stop beating yourself up! You're doing just fine. Go show your kids how it's done! :D

Thatsagirl

 

[ski now work later]

Thanks Thatsagirl. I did some research when I was there, however, and learned that the turn radius of the 163s for that ski was 16.5, which is long for shorter radius turns, including bumps. I wanted to work on bumps there because 1) they're everywhere; and 2) they're soft there, unlike the East where the few bump runs get icy. Also, I found that the stiffness of the skis made it difficult in softer snow and bumps. A Diva pmed me today to concur with my instructor and provided these reasons. I absolutely love the ski, but am not sure I'm going to hang on to it (you might see it for sale). I didn't understand the aspect of turn radius and stiffness when I purchased it, alas. Thanks for your support though. I skiied today on familiar Eastern conditions in a 161 length, 14.5 radius ski and had a blast. My 13 year old snowboarder (2nd season) made it onto the blue runs today and it was super fun actually moving down the hill with her, and my 10 year old skiier (also 2nd season) is controlling her turns very well and feeling more confident.

 

[Thatsagirl]

Thanks Thatsagirl. I did some research when I was there, however, and learned that the turn radius of the 163s for that ski was 16.5, which is long for shorter radius turns, including bumps. I wanted to work on bumps there because 1) they're everywhere; and 2) they're soft there, unlike the East where the few bump runs get icy. Also, I found that the stiffness of the skis made it difficult in softer snow and bumps. A Diva pmed me today to concur with my instructor and provided these reasons. I absolutely love the ski, but am not sure I'm going to hang on to it (you might see it for sale). I didn't understand the aspect of turn radius and stiffness when I purchased it, alas. Thanks for your support though. I skiied today on familiar Eastern conditions in a 161 length, 14.5 radius ski and had a blast.

Perhaps it's not the right ski for your preference of short-radius turns, but it is still the proper length for you. That is what I was referring to. Note that you skied on a ski that was only 2 cm shorter and liked it. It's the turn radius that you don't like, not the length. I still think a 156 would be too short, especially with the shorter turning radius that you prefer.

Thatsagirl

 

[ski now work later]

Perhaps it's not the right ski for your preference of short-radius turns, but it is still the proper length for you. That is what I was referring to. Note that you skied on a ski that was only 2 cm shorter and liked it. It's the turn radius that you don't like, not the length. I still think a 156 would be too short, especially with the shorter turning radius that you prefer.

Thatsagirl

Yes, that's exactly what I think too. 163 is not too long, but the turn radius and stiffness of the ski were not useful for the conditions/goals that I had for the ski. If only I had discovered this site and the wealth of information and support from Divas before I went shopping!

So Thatsagirl, any recommendations (especially the Volkl Attiva line which I understand can be a little stiffer than, say K-2s) for an alternative ski that will handle shorter turns, bumps, and softer powder conditions. I know that powder usually calls for a longer ski, so I may be asking for too much for one ski to deliver....

 

[lv2ski]

My right knee hurts just hearing about the trails you went down! I say give yourself a pat on the back for having the guts to challenge yourself on totally unfamiliar expert terrain!! Good job.

 

[Thatsagirl]

So Thatsagirl, any recommendations (especially the Volkl Attiva line which I understand can be a little stiffer than, say K-2s) for an alternative ski that will handle shorter turns, bumps, and softer powder conditions. I know that powder usually calls for a longer ski, so I may be asking for too much for one ski to deliver....

I am not the best source for ski recommendations for your ability level. I've only demoed the advanced/expert skis. Hopefully SnowHot or volklgirl will chime in. They are much more versed in skis for your level.

I can tell you that once you reach the confident advanced level, you will most likely be less concerned about ski length vs. conditions, in that I use the same length for deep powder, trees, moguls and groomers. I ski the longer length for all conditions, and know many women who do the same. But when you are still learning and perfecting technique, it helps to have longer in powder and shorter in the moguls.

Thatsagirl

 

[SnowHot]

SkiNowWorkLater, There are vast options in the ski market for you. Perhaps a post in the gear forum area would get some play from the many gear divas.

The key is to look for something that has a sidecut that will not make it difficult for you to carve as you grow in ability. Also you want a ski with some forgiving properties. I like Volkls for that pupose, as well as the k2 line, and Nordica's Olympia series. However, I am very intrigued by the Elan skis that are pumping it up for the women next year.

For your growing experience I'd go for the One luv or the attiva AC2.

When it comes down to it, you should tighten up the goggle strap, put a smile on your face, head 'em down hill and yell, Whoo hoo!

 

[Lori_K]

I can tell you that once you reach the confident advanced level, you will most likely be less concerned about ski length vs. conditions, in that I use the same length for deep powder, trees, moguls and groomers.
Thatsagirl

I agree with this statement, and would like to add something. My "all mountain" ski is my 3 year old Salomon Pocket Rocket, in a 165cm (shortest available). I am 5'3" and 135lbs. I also have the Volkl Attiva S5 in 161cm. Now, the S5 is shorter, but it has a much stiffer tail-- which makes it more challenging in the moguls. The stiffer taill is more likely to spring back and give you that extra "push", which you really don't want on the bumps.
The PR is softer, more forgiving, and even though it is wide underfoot it has a much softer tail which makes it easier to work in the bumps.
Oh, and bumps (even soft ones!) are not learned in a day! Trust me, I know. I've been practicing them all season. :o

Bumps are all about technique, and keeping a balanced stance. (At least that's what the instructor told me yesterday.) And even though I was on my 165 PRs, and she was on 145 Salomon Siam 10s, she never said my skis were too long. This is why demoing skis before you buy them is so important. There is more than just length, waist width, and turn radius to consider. The flex of the ski is important as well. I think if you keep your eyes open, you may find a ski that can do most of those things you ask. That is why I am very keen on trying the Volkl Aura, to see if it is as good as my old faithful Pocket Rockets in the everything-but-hardpack category.

Edit: I demo'd the Attiva AC3 back in December, and thought it would be a great East-coast all mountain ski, with a preference for on-piste work. If you can afford to keep several skis, consider a softer ski for bumps/trees/powder. If you can only have one ski, consider what terrain you will be in 90% of the time, and buy an appropriate ski. For the other 10% of the time there's always demos and high performance rentals. ;)

 

[Elangirl]

I think that so many 0f the ski length recommendations here are prefaced with " I ski a . . . ." In reality, the right ski length is the one that you like and enjoy to ski, not one that someone else skis or is comfortable with.

I ski out West in all kinds of stuff---right now we have powder, powder and more powder--we had 10 inches and then it snowed all day. Right now, I am on a ski with a 69 mm waist--which many people would consider too small for powder--but, I like it.

I just skied the AC 3 for next year and think of it as an expert level ski. The Ac 2 is more appropriate for an intermediate--some one in the level 6. A softer ski is easier in the bumps---and sometimes in the powder too.

But, I think we should all be careful about declaring that a ski is the "right" length for someone---there are so many factors: their ski level, height, weight---but, more importantly, the skiing style of that person. I think that so many of the Epic posts are about how has the longest . . .er skis---and I think we have to be careful here too. I am a ski instructor and an expert skier--I ski about 125 days per year--am 5'4", 155 pounds and I ski a 152---would not even consider a longer ski. Most of the men in our ski school ski between 160 and 170. Remember too that a stiffer ski can be shorter while a softer ski can be longer---personal preference is big here. I am hesitant to recommend a length to my clients until I have seen them ski. So, considering that your ski instructor at Stratton in a professional and not a big, old,meanie, maybe her assessment of your skiing style and the length of your skis was accurate.

But, it does not really matter what someone else is skiing. The importat question is what do you think? Obviously you are having trouble with that ski in that length--so, go shorter or softer or both.

 

[Lola]

OK, the counselor in me is kicking in - and I agree with the 'pat yourself on the back' and 'give yourself a break' comments.

In my opinion, improving your skiing is about change, and rarely do human beings change in one moment. From my experience, it's about 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. That's how change works. So while you are moving forward, you should naturally expect some steps backwards, but overall, it seems to me that you are getting better.

In '05 you were skiing greens at Big Sky and in '07 blacks, bumps, and powder! That sounds like overall improvement to me! So I say, "Congratulations!" - you skiing is really improving! Keep up the good work and who knows what you'll be skiing in '09!

 

[ski now work later]

I think that so many 0f the ski length recommendations here are prefaced with " I ski a . . . ." In reality, the right ski length is the one that you like and enjoy to ski, not one that someone else skis or is comfortable with.

I ski out West in all kinds of stuff---right now we have powder, powder and more powder--we had 10 inches and then it snowed all day. Right now, I am on a ski with a 69 mm waist--which many people would consider too small for powder--but, I like it.

I just skied the AC 3 for next year and think of it as an expert level ski. The Ac 2 is more appropriate for an intermediate--some one in the level 6. A softer ski is easier in the bumps---and sometimes in the powder too.

But, I think we should all be careful about declaring that a ski is the "right" length for someone---there are so many factors: their ski level, height, weight---but, more importantly, the skiing style of that person. I think that so many of the Epic posts are about how has the longest . . .er skis---and I think we have to be careful here too. I am a ski instructor and an expert skier--I ski about 125 days per year--am 5'4", 155 pounds and I ski a 152---would not even consider a longer ski. Most of the men in our ski school ski between 160 and 170. Remember too that a stiffer ski can be shorter while a softer ski can be longer---personal preference is big here. I am hesitant to recommend a length to my clients until I have seen them ski. So, considering that your ski instructor at Stratton in a professional and not a big, old,meanie, maybe her assessment of your skiing style and the length of your skis was accurate.

But, it does not really matter what someone else is skiing. The importat question is what do you think? Obviously you are having trouble with that ski in that length--so, go shorter or softer or both.

I agree 100% with what you have written and agree with my instructor at Stratton, though I wish that she had taken a little more time to explain her rationale to me rather than scolding me for using the wrong skis (she was a great instructor otherwise however) and my experience at Big Sky and the feedback from the Divas has confirmed her opinion. The AC3 is too stiff a ski for my level except on groomed runs, and I already had the 5Stars from last year for that purpose, which are lighter and have a good turning radius. I think that at my level that for powder skiing (and certainly the bumps), a shorter, softer, more flexible ski is best and I'll probably wind up with next year's AC2s or a similar ski once I sell my AC3s. I have learned, the hard way, that there are 4 primary considerations for a ski based on skill level and terrain: turn radius, stiffness/softness, width, and length. If only the staff at ski shops were as knowledgeable as you Divas! Anyway, I have concluded that as long as the ski will hold an edge well on hardpack in the East, I will be much happier and progress further with a different ski. Until I have more powder experience, I think that a longer wide powder ski would be too much for me, so I will sacrifice some "float" for ease of use and leave the Cadillac skis for my future!

 

[skigirl]

I agree 100 percent with Elangirl! I can't say it any better. Thank You.

 

[Sarah]

I bought the 156cm Attiva AC2's earlier this year and love them. I'm the same height as you and sound about the same skill level. I considered the AC3s and the 163cm AC2s but decided I wanted something that would make learning the bumps easier and I am not a really high speed cruiser.

They have a really good deal on these at Sierra Snowboards at the moment only $435. Glad the boyfriend paid for mine otherwise I might have been annoyed at paying $200 more :D
https://shop.sierrasnowboard.com/browse.cfm/4,1470.htm