Makes total sense, I guess I just need to be more patient! And a lesson may make all the difference
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Santa Ana 88- Did I buy the wrong ski?!
- Thread starter TammySki
- Start date
contesstant
Angel Diva
Give them time. And a 22.5 is indeed small so the lower delta (heel in relation to the toe) of that binding should be helpful but might also take some getting used to.Thank you for the info! I have nordica boots my size is 22.5 I believe (I’m a 5.5 women’s so small feet). Love my boots which is greatMany people mentioned that the width is a big difference and so that is most likely what I’m feeling. So I guess Question for experienced skier, would it make sense to try and sell them and get smaller skis since I’m fairly new to skiing? Or just give it time since I loved them in terms of stability and fresher/ choppier conditions?
mustski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I second the idea of getting a fresh tune. A bad tune ruins a good ski and it happens far too often. The squires are a light binding and - as already pointed out - a slightly negative delta. I personally love a negative delta and feel like it's less work than a binding with a positive delta. Get a tune, and try them again. If it's the binding delta a good shop can remedy that. What are the bindings on your current skis?
Update: I’ve taken them out two more times and did some drills that some of you mentioned and I’m starting to love them! I’m definitely getting more used to the width. I really do think it was just adjusting to the width and learning how to move them compared to my super skinny skis. I’m excited to get good on these, so thanks for all the advice
contesstant
Angel Diva
Fantastic! It really is a great ski for progressing on well into an upper advanced level.
SnowHot
Angel Diva
All of this is likely the reason.
I had the Nordica Proto ski last year which came with the negative delta Marker demo binding on it. We took it off after just one day on snow and replaced it with my usual binding and I absolutely loved it.
The newer Griffon Demos no longer have a negative delta.
SnowHot
Angel Diva
This is awesome!!
I will let you know if anything changes! I’m trying out a friend’s skis in a week or so and will probably know better at that pointI was gonna say...if you continue not to like them, I'd buy them off you.But it sounds like you're moving in the right direction!
HuntersEmma57
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That seems like a very short ski for an intermediate skier and ditto on demo bindings being notably heavier. I do agree a lesson could be helpful and hopefully get some advice from the instructor who can see firsthand what's going on with your stance and equipment. Skiing development is iterative and by advancing technique, it will help you turn a bigger ski in a more efficient way. As others mentioned, tired legs are common in early season especially if you're not actively conditioning ahead of time. Good luck!
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
@TammySki is only 5'2 and an intermediate so think that length is fine for her.. My good friend is about 5'3 and an advanced skier, and she has the Santa Ana 88 in a 151...
I'm half kidding. But, I also ski Sugar Bowl, so another thing we could do is meet up and swap skis for a few runs if you want to try out something different. I just bought a pair of last year's 149 Kenja with demo bindings after skiing a pair of 156s for about a dozen years. They are great on groomers. I was a little meh about them on ungroomed, but I'm not sure if that's me, the ski, or the length.I will let you know if anything changes! I’m trying out a friend’s skis in a week or so and will probably know better at that point
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Why did you go down in size on the Kenjas? I had some about 10 years ago in 149 (when they were a lot stiffer) and thought they were great on groomers but did get tossed around a bit in heavy clumped up snow.....
I'm trying to make my life easier, including effort to ski. I'd been waffling on 149s and 156s for this next pair and by the time I decided to buy them, only used 149s were available. So, my plan is to ski them this season and see how they work, and if they aren't right, sell them. I need something to fill the gap between SL skis when it's firm and the other days when I'm never on a groomer and am on the wider Blazes.
RandomSkier
Certified Ski Diva
Update: How do you like them now? Are you still struggling or have you gotten used to them?
Do you rely predominantly on short, skidded turns? An intermediate with three seasons is right in the skidded turn stage of progression (we've all been there). My guess is this is purely technique related. These skis are wider, heavier, and want to be skiied with a bit of technique. You can't just throw them around and fight those edges in a skid as easily as your little junior skis. You are tired because you are using all of your leg muscles to fight the ski by skidding it non stop down the mountain.
Now, did you buy the wrong ski? No! I fact, I think these are going to be great for you. The Santa Ana has a deeper rocker line than some other general all mountain skis they initiate and release turns easily, they are stable, handle speed well giving you confidence to push yourself, and you are going to learn more in one season on these than the last 3 years. Get a lesson, learn to tip those skis over.
Do you rely predominantly on short, skidded turns? An intermediate with three seasons is right in the skidded turn stage of progression (we've all been there). My guess is this is purely technique related. These skis are wider, heavier, and want to be skiied with a bit of technique. You can't just throw them around and fight those edges in a skid as easily as your little junior skis. You are tired because you are using all of your leg muscles to fight the ski by skidding it non stop down the mountain.
Now, did you buy the wrong ski? No! I fact, I think these are going to be great for you. The Santa Ana has a deeper rocker line than some other general all mountain skis they initiate and release turns easily, they are stable, handle speed well giving you confidence to push yourself, and you are going to learn more in one season on these than the last 3 years. Get a lesson, learn to tip those skis over.
HuntersEmma57
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In pursuit of the best ski for you, here are some broader and deeper perspectives, but first a a major caveat: There is no ski on the planet that can make up for a poor boot fit.
A sloppy (too comfortable) or ill-fitting boot will dramatically hold you back. Borrowed boots or rental boots are no-no's if you're looking to go beyond greens and cruiser blues and be able to carve.
General Thoughts: Yes, you can you survive some blacks on softer, shorter skis and ill-fitting boots. I did, but it was not fun or freeing. I didn't feel exhilaration, as endorphins created by fear and immense relief from just getting down unscathed. I lived with anxiety and thought that was normal.
When I learned to truly carve and upgraded my equipment and boots to my skill level, the difference between surviving a black and actually skiing (taking assertive to aggressive turns) was night and day.
One hint whether you're skiing vs. surviving is how many times you have to stop. As I advanced in skills, I became able to ski top to bottom on a groomer without stopping because technique is the game changer then. It takes for everything come together - boot, ski, poles, skills, and desire. Weighting and unweighting for turns, aided by pole plants, makes turning the easier and less exhausting. When slliding turns (fighting gravity), that's a lot of muscle work and brings about that nasty burn. (Bad boots do that, too.)
And when it comes to skis, there are just are many factors to consider besides just height and weight and perceived ski abliity vs. actual abilities. A lot of Divas come here for ski recommendations. All the best intentions and personal experiences really can't answer that question with a lot of accuracy.
And a ski alone likely won't make you a better skier, but it will allow you to become a better skier. Frustratingly, becoming a better skier requires that you learn to carve (I thought I was carving well before I was carving) and have the correct body position to the fall line. Carving generally requires becoming a more assertive, confident skier. Just putting on a ski racer's skis doesn't make you a ski racer, right?
Turning Radius: I've discussed in other posts that the turn radius design of a ski is a huge factor in whether you will feel comfortable on a ski and this applies to ALL levels of skiers. If you like to make short controlled turns and buy a ski with a large turning radius, you'll be fighting with your skis and vice versa.
Most, if not all, beginner skis have a short turning radius and are soft to be easier to turn while you gain more skills. As you progress in skill, intermediate skis will be a firmer but turning radius preference then starts to become a consideration. Higher turning radius skis are designed for the giant sweeping turns that require a lot of mountain and generate higher speeds. Those big arcing turns are not better or worse than short frequent turns. Much depends on what's available on your mountain. If you have crowded or narrow slopes, short turning radius makes more sense.
What do I mean by turning radius? Simplified: Shorter turning radius (well under 15) is well-suited for all beginners. Turning radius is generally printed somewhere on the ski, but can be looked up at the ski manufacturer's website. The ski shop should know, but TBD, not all staff really know all that much about skis. They gonna sell you what they have and make the biggest margin on. And rental shops can be downright awful. Some will send out out in anything.
A shorter turning radius is very much desired for off piste tree skiers or those who ski predominantly narrow trails. I happen to love shorter turning radius even on groomers. I just like to make a lot of turns. To me, that's what skiing is -- beautiful turns -- with the additional bonus that turns are what give you control particularly on steep descents.
Here's a good article that explains more (but I think is overly simplified when it comes to advanced terrain and powder):
Ski Turn Radius Explained: What Will Suit You Best?
Skiing is one of the most exhilarating winter sports, and it is no surprise that so many people love it worldwide. However, while skiing down a slope, the
skiersguild.com
By now, you're probably feeling overwhelmed. Learning about what skis suit you and your circumstances is time consuming and requires honesty and reflection.
And this is why, in my experience, ski shops don't do a great job of it. They don't take the time or know their inventory all that well. And many skiers themselves are not good at assessing our own ski levels or preferences. How often do you ski and what is your fitness level? Fitness is critical to injury-prevention and endurance and is a significant factor on the type of skier you can be.
Many of us have partners or family members who are more advanced skiers and they want us to ski with them. I sometimes felt pressured by my expert skier husband. But after 5 years and a 2-week trip to Whistler, skiing terrain I never thought I'd ever even see, I started making my own choices. I got custom boots and longer, fatter skis and I blossomed. But mistakes were made when buying skis. Expensive mistakes can happen. So I dug deeper.
Weight, height, fitness, and the snow conditions being skied are major factors.
In general, if you're skiing soft snow primarily, you can go longer and fatter because you'll experience more powder on top of groomers. Skinny skis sink into powder and you'll suddenly find you can't turn or stop well. And then you will get very tired and probably fall over. I speak from experience when I say that was terrifying and humbling. While just about any ski can carve (much fatter sksi do take a bit more effort to carve), I'd rather be able to turn and stop in powder. So I decided I'd settle for being slower groomers and have the fatter ski in case it snows.
If skiing predominantly man-made, hard/icy and skied out irm groomers, a narrower waist is preferable but remember that a longer ski gives more stability (up to a point - ski racing is a discipline entirely outside my realm). If you're feeling skittish, noodly, and a bit out of control at higher speeds, a longer ski can cure that.
If you want to advance beyond intermediate, is it your goal to stay on black groomers or are you someone who likes to check out the edges of slopes in the the trees, or become a dedicated off piste skier?
There is one assertion I won't back down on. The snow in trees is always softer (if it isn't, don't ski it) and benefits from fatter skis and some lessons. Powder. IS. Different.
On weight of a ski: Honestly I think that seriously overblown for most people, but it is preference. Unless you're truly lightweight petite, that's likely just an idea you have the heavier or bigger skis will be too much for you. Frankly, no modern skis are all that heavy (boots can be and that does matter more as it adds to swing weight). Skis mostly stay on top the snow and slide downhill, right? Don't be afraid to try a ski with a bit of substance (they can plow the chunder better). I much prefer light skis for powder and for backcountry skiing and a heavier ski on groomers.
As skiers get to advanced and expert, there are even even more considerations; e.g., like early tip and tail rise and rocker. My 183/114cm giant powder skis have a ton of rocker so there's not all the much ski on the snow unless I'm turning. They ski much shorter then they look and are remarkably good in the trees. This runs contrary to common knowledge.
I'm 160-165# and 5'5" and haven't skied anything under 163cm since my 3rd year of skiing and that was living out East. I now live and ski in the West and shortest ski I own is 171cm for groomers. If I ski anything shorter, I find a loss of stability especially at speed. Powder skis are an entirely different discussion.
But bottom line: Bigger longer fatter is only better if it fits YOU and works for how and where you ski. But too short and too narrow will hold you back and keep the terrain and conditions you ski well limited. If you're a beginner or intermediate and want to advance, the first thing I'd do is go longer. Iteratively. Modestly.
Last edited:
This!! I’ve gotten used to them and love them! But everything you said was correct about the skidded turns. Now these skis are making me better as I’m forced to learn better technique. I feel I’ve progressed a ton already! Although I had a simple little fall last weekend that just landed on my hand wrong and tore my thumb ligament so I’m out for a while :(
wernerslab
Angel Diva
That was a lot to type out(thanks from my scienc-y, nerdy heart as that was like reading a good lab expt conclusion!) and really helpful. I am in the process of getting boots with a boot fitter and demoing skis to get something that fits my style and primary ski locations and have only done rentals in my life. This is more 'food for thought' as I choose what to try. I am going to hopefully have my new boots in time for a CO trip end March and will be able to demo skis more while I am there. I just did a demo day here in PA and have come to the realization that perhaps I may like to have 2 skis instead of one all mtn ski. One for harder/icy conditions and one for when we are lucky enough to get some fresh snow when we venture more north to NE to ski.In pursuit of the best ski for you, here are some broader and deeper perspectives, but first a a major caveat: There is no ski on the planet that can make up for a poor boot fit.
A sloppy (too comfortable) or ill-fitting boot will dramatically hold you back. Borrowed boots or rental boots are no-no's if you're looking to go beyond greens and cruiser blues and be able to carve.
General Thoughts: Yes, you can you survive some blacks on softer, shorter skis and ill-fitting boots. I did, but it was not fun or freeing. I didn't feel exhilaration, as endorphins created by fear and immense relief from just getting down unscathed. I lived with anxiety and thought that was normal.
When I learned to truly carve and upgraded my equipment and boots to my skill level, the difference between surviving a black and actually skiing (taking assertive to aggressive turns) was night and day.
One hint whether you're skiing vs. surviving is how many times you have to stop. As I advanced in skills, I became able to ski top to bottom on a groomer without stopping because technique is the game changer then. It takes for everything come together - boot, ski, poles, skills, and desire. Weighting and unweighting for turns, aided by pole plants, makes turning the easier and less exhausting. When slliding turns (fighting gravity), that's a lot of muscle work and brings about that nasty burn. (Bad boots do that, too.)
And when it comes to skis, there are just are many factors to consider besides just height and weight and perceived ski abliity vs. actual abilities. A lot of Divas come here for ski recommendations. All the best intentions and personal experiences really can't answer that question with a lot of accuracy.
And a ski alone likely won't make you a better skier, but it will allow you to become a better skier. Frustratingly, becoming a better skier requires that you learn to carve (I thought I was carving well before I was carving) and have the correct body position to the fall line. Carving generally requires becoming a more assertive, confident skier. Just putting on a ski racer's skis doesn't make you a ski racer, right?
Turning Radius: I've discussed in other posts that the turn radius design of a ski is a huge factor in whether you will feel comfortable on a ski and this applies to ALL levels of skiers. If you like to make short controlled turns and buy a ski with a large turning radius, you'll be fighting with your skis and vice versa.
Most, if not all, beginner skis have a short turning radius and are soft to be easier to turn while you gain more skills. As you progress in skill, intermediate skis will be a firmer but turning radius preference then starts to become a consideration. Higher turning radius skis are designed for the giant sweeping turns that require a lot of mountain and generate higher speeds. Those big arcing turns are not better or worse than short frequent turns. Much depends on what's available on your mountain. If you have crowded or narrow slopes, short turning radius makes more sense.
What do I mean by turning radius? Simplified: Shorter turning radius (well under 15) is well-suited for all beginners. Turning radius is generally printed somewhere on the ski, but can be looked up at the ski manufacturer's website. The ski shop should know, but TBD, not all staff really know all that much about skis. They gonna sell you what they have and make the biggest margin on. And rental shops can be downright awful. Some will send out out in anything.
A shorter turning radius is very much desired for off piste tree skiers or those who ski predominantly narrow trails. I happen to love shorter turning radius even on groomers. I just like to make a lot of turns. To me, that's what skiing is -- beautiful turns -- with the additional bonus that turns are what give you control particularly on steep descents.
Here's a good article that explains more (but I think is overly simplified when it comes to advanced terrain and powder):
Ski Turn Radius Explained: What Will Suit You Best?
Skiing is one of the most exhilarating winter sports, and it is no surprise that so many people love it worldwide. However, while skiing down a slope, the
By now, you're probably feeling overwhelmed. Learning about what skis suit you and your circumstances is time consuming and requires honesty and reflection.
And this is why, in my experience, ski shops don't do a great job of it. They don't take the time or know their inventory all that well. And many skiers themselves are not good at assessing our own ski levels or preferences. How often do you ski and what is your fitness level? Fitness is critical to injury-prevention and endurance and is a significant factor on the type of skier you can be.
Many of us have partners or family members who are more advanced skiers and they want us to ski with them. I sometimes felt pressured by my expert skier husband. But after 5 years and a 2-week trip to Whistler, skiing terrain I never thought I'd ever even see, I started making my own choices. I got custom boots and longer, fatter skis and I blossomed. But mistakes were made when buying skis. Expensive mistakes can happen. So I dug deeper.
Weight, height, fitness, and the snow conditions being skied are major factors.
In general, if you're skiing soft snow primarily, you can go longer and fatter because you'll experience more powder on top of groomers. Skinny skis sink into powder and you'll suddenly find you can't turn or stop well. And then you will get very tired and probably fall over. I speak from experience when I say that was terrifying and humbling. While just about any ski can carve (much fatter sksi do take a bit more effort to carve), I'd rather be able to turn and stop in powder. So I decided I'd settle for being slower groomers and have the fatter ski in case it snows.
If skiing predominantly man-made, hard/icy and skied out irm groomers, a narrower waist is preferable but remember that a longer ski gives more stability (up to a point - ski racing is a discipline entirely outside my realm). If you're feeling skittish, noodly, and a bit out of control at higher speeds, a longer ski can cure that.
If you want to advance beyond intermediate, is it your goal to stay on black groomers or are you someone who likes to check out the edges of slopes in the the trees, or become a dedicated off piste skier?
There is one assertion I won't back down on. The snow in trees is always softer (if it isn't, don't ski it) and benefits from fatter skis and some lessons. Powder. IS. Different.
On weight of a ski: Honestly I think that seriously overblown for most people, but it is preference. Unless you're truly lightweight petite, that's likely just an idea you have the heavier or bigger skis will be too much for you. Frankly, no modern skis are all that heavy (boots can be and that does matter more as it adds to swing weight). Skis mostly stay on top the snow and slide downhill, right? Don't be afraid to try a ski with a bit of substance (they can plow the chunder better). I much prefer light skis for powder and for backcountry skiing and a heavier ski on groomers.
As skiers get to advanced and expert, there are even even more considerations; e.g., like early tip and tail rise and rocker. My 183/114cm giant powder skis have a ton of rocker so there's not all the much ski on the snow unless I'm turning. They ski much shorter then they look and are remarkably good in the trees. This runs contrary to common knowledge.
I'm 160-165# and 5'5" and haven't skied anything under 163cm since my 3rd year of skiing and that was living out East. I now live and ski in the West and shortest ski I own is 171cm for groomers. If I ski anything shorter, I find a loss of stability especially at speed. Powder skis are an entirely different discussion.
But bottom line: Bigger longer fatter is only better if it fits YOU and works for how and where you ski. But too short and too narrow will hold you back and keep the terrain and conditions you ski well limited. If you're a beginner or intermediate and want to advance, the first thing I'd do is go longer. Iteratively. Modestly.
chasinghorizons
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I feel like you should just copy/paste this whole post into every ski advice thread.
I'll just also add that weight makes a bigger difference depending on how fast you wanna go and how manky the snow is. More weight feels better at faster speeds and crappier snow - it dampens out the unevenness and you don't get tossed as much. My powder skis are also my heaviest skis since I am mostly in Tahoe and sierra cement is no joke - if I was skiing champagne powder in Utah, I would probably have something different.
