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Reckless Skiing Law? What do you think?

alta_gal83

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This article was on our local news this morning about Park City and Deer Valley considering implementing a "Reckless Skiing" law that would result in a misdemeanor if you are caught skiing recklessly.

https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2461698

My problem is this: I am a good skier. I can carve fast and remain in control. I had never once had a ski patroller stop me -- until I skied The Canyons out of the blue last year (I actually ski with patrollers!). I believe I was targeted because I definitely did not fall into the typical clientele of The Canyons. I was not sitting on my behind in the middle of the hill and I was making fast carving, in control turns. I was even going slower than I normally would because I wasn't on a mountain that I was familiar with. However, I listened to the patrol, told him that I would slow down and he left me alone. Now, if this law were to be passed, I have a feeling that I would have been given a misdemeanor ticket that day -- of which, my "fast skiing" didn't equate.

A "Reckless Skiing" law will take a lot of enjoyment out of the sport if you are constantly worrying that you are going to get "pulled over" and it doesn't belong on a mountain that can police itself. Really, I think it is sufficient for patrol to enforce extremely reckless skiing by pulling tickets. If the law were to be passed, I can forsee the ambulance chasing attorneys becoming sue happy over skiing collisions -- like the one involving the 8-year-old versus the 60-something adult male. Ridiculous. Skiing/Snowboarding involves risk. It even says so on the pass. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

Taken from a CO court case:
"Skiing is a dangerous sport. Ordinary understanding tells us so, and the legislature has recognized that dangers inhere in the sport. . . . Not all dangers that may be encountered on the ski slopes, however are inherent and integral to the sport, and this determination cannot always be made as a matter of law."
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
https://www.yahoo.com/s/779043

Mountain High, CA, will start using radar and ticketing skiers/riders who exceed 19 mph???!!! :eek:

Okay, cruisers, think about THAT?
19 mph is NOT very fast.....
What's all this coming to?
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
https://www.yahoo.com/s/779043

Mountain High, CA, will start using radar and ticketing skiers/riders who exceed 19 mph???!!! :eek:

Okay, cruisers, think about THAT?
19 mph is NOT very fast.....
What's all this coming to?

No kidding. We've used a radar gun out on an open slope at Snowbird and clocked the people in our group between 50-70mph - and that wasn't even on a good visibility day. Yeah, that was fast, but I'd guess I'm almost never under 19mph unless I'm in bumps or picking my way through rocks or crowds (which I also avoid like the plague.)

You'd hope such a policy would only apply to green runs or something, where it would make sense...

Honestly - I'd just never go to a resort with a policy like that. If it got implemented everywhere - that would be the end of my resort skiing.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
No kidding. We've used a radar gun out on an open slope at Snowbird and clocked the people in our group between 50-70mph - and that wasn't even on a good visibility day. Yeah, that was fast, but I'd guess I'm almost never under 19mph unless I'm in bumps or picking my way through rocks or crowds (which I also avoid like the plague.)

You'd hope such a policy would only apply to green runs or something, where it would make sense...

Honestly - I'd just never go to a resort with a policy like that. If it got implemented everywhere - that would be the end of my resort skiing.
I can mimic what Altagirl said word for word(with the exception of actually using a radar)

I can almost see this on green runs, but I'm more concerned about out of control skiers/riders than fast skiers/riders.

We need to differentiate the two. Fast does not equal out of control.
 

SueNJ

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Pretty much the first thing that came to mind when I read the thread title--define "reckless skiing." I can certainly understand implementing this on green runs, as theoretically those should be tailored to the beginners, without them having to worry about fast skiers/boarders whizzing by them (either on the snow or airborne). Beginners tend to make wider, sometimes more erratic turns, and they should be able to practice their skills safely without worrying about getting creamed. But I just can't see having speed limits on the more advanced parts of the mountain.

I totally agree with what's been said about fast skiers/boarders versus out-of-control ones. It makes me crazy when I see someone attempting to ski/board down a trail that's way, way beyond their ability, either struggling terribly the whole way, or just bombing down the run out of control. I think everyone should push their boundaries now and then, but there are some people who don't seem to understand their limitations, or don't realize that it's not just about being able to ski/snowboard fast, that it's also about being in control, or being able to turn or stop to avoid hitting something or someone.
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There are also problems with this kind of law coming from the other end of the spectrum -- less skilled skiers who got cajoled into skiing terrain beyond their abilities and would really love to slow down but can't. The paralell I see between this law and something we can all identify with is reckless driving. Except, we get licenses to drive that indicate that we all have a general ability to drive. A reckless driver is capable of driving like a responsible driver; he or she just chooses not to in one way or another.

Skiing, on the other hand, does not have licenses, and not everyone on skis knows how to ski. Way long ago when we were kids, I made my brother ski something outside of his comfort zone. He did the entire run at "high" speed because he was unable to properly slow himself down from the get go, and he was terrified the entire run. Lo and behold, ski patrol also yelled at him (didn't stop him, though, because he couldn't stop). I don't think his situation is unique. The coverage of a reckless skiing law would hit someone like him, when his intent the entire time was to slow himself down without killing himself.

I feel like "reckless skiing," to the extent that it winds up being a law, shouldn't be defined as "beginning skier who got in over his head and is now terrified of skiing" and should have some level of intent involved.
 

Kimmyt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think that 'reckless skiing' is a pretty arbitrary term.

In order to enforce something as a 'law' they have to have strict, and quantifiable means of determining whether someone has broken the law. In addition, if they were to set a mph speed limit, what I wonder is how they can enforce it when people have no means of finding out just how fast they are going? With driving a cop can say you knowingly broke the law because you have a spedometer. We, as skiiers, do not have that ability to self-limit our speed. Who the heck knows 19 mph from 25??

I believe many resorts already police certain 'slow skiing' zones on the mountain, and that makes sense (I would like that more if there was some kind of notice that a slow skiing zone is coming up ahead, because if you're going fast, before you know it you'll be in the slow zone and could get in trouble).

I guess basically what I'm saying is that this whole thing doesn't seem too logical?
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
I know that many mountain resorts have "speed police". Infact at Whistler they use RCMP officers off duty. At Tremblant we only usually see them after 2:30 pm on the main face leading to the bottom. This run gets pretty bumped up as the day progresses and certain skiers need to be told that they are ready for this slope. Also there are also speed demons who "mach" the run because its their last run of the day or trying to make last ride up. I think that pulling passes etc works for most. Repeat offenders would need to be dealt with differently, but the policy must be posted.
All that leads to an interesting policy in BC recently. Dad and son had to be recused out of bounds at Grouse. They are going to have to PAY for that rescue!! Passes were immediately pulled and a resort fine was levied. Now the rescue bill will be added to their fine! I do not have one problem with this. You were out of bounds, you knew the risks, you took them. So pay up for all those people who came to your help!
 

Shellski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have no problem with this idea IN THEORY. 'Reckless' is a whole different scenario to simply 'fast but in control'. I think speed on it's own should only be controlled in dedicated beginner and slow skiing areas. Otherwise common sense should prevail.
 

Calgary ski chick

Certified Ski Diva
A reckless skiing law seems unnecessary. Sort of. If you're skiing recklessly (even negligently, i.e. you should have known you can't ski a black run), and injure somebody, you are responsible, just like you would be if you hit them with your car. Hopefully you're insured :eek:

I have no problem though with patrollers enforcing the "slow" zones - beginners also need to know that the people cruising by may be going "fast" but are usually in complete control...
 

abc

Banned
Don't have the time to read through the proposed "law". But what if you're caught skiing fast, WITH alcohol in your breath?

I agree with all others had said. The skilled skiers skiing fast isn't the main problem. Skiing out of control is. And that can be the result of being on the wrong terrain, or being ignorant about control. But it'll be really hard to deferetiate the two so I don't see how they'll ever enforce it.

The main problem I see with all these is, there're enough deterance to that, namely pulling tickets! Start enforcing it seriously. We don't need MORE laws!
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Don't have the time to read through the proposed "law". But what if you're caught skiing fast, WITH alcohol in your breath?

The article didn't really hammer out what is proposed, and the spokesperson for the legislative body proposing it didn't elaborate.

Re: alcohol - some of the ski areas are just asking for some alcohol related incident, whether it's someone falling out of a lift or drunk skiing. Mountain Creek has an onslope, outdoor bar, AND night skiing. How did the legal department let that one slip by?
 

mollmeister

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In theory. . . Speed traps OK on green slopes on in congested areas, and watching for *reckless* skiing on other trails OK.

Except. . . what is reckless skiing? And who gets to decide?

I don't ski Keystone anymore (mostly because it's crowded and there's lots of manmade), in part due to the speed police. I have seen them pull people over who were skiing only moderately fast and very in control. I even heard from an instructor that they pulled Picabo over one day, when she was there for a race.

Most of the people on speed duty there are older slow cruisers (no offense to anyone who fits that bill) who, like my Dad (whom I love to death, btw) think anyone going faster than they like to is *speeding.*

I don't know. I just don't see how it can be enforced in a way that makes any sense. And how can you be held to a speed law, anyway, when humans don't come with built-in speedometers? It's not like we can check on a heads-up display. What *feels* fast to one person won't to another. Might be hard to make any *convictions* stick, unless they're over the top.
 

num

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I agree with the general sentiment that has been posted about how subjective "reckless skiing" is. Having never been clocked by a radar gun and not having ever used a gps device with a speedometer, I have absolutely no idea what speed I ski in general. I know when I'm skiing faster or slower than usual, but I have no numerical grasp on my speed. The idea of getting a ticket for skiing over a certain speed when the numbers mean nothing to me is nuts.
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Years ago, I had a chance to get clocked (at Copper, Robyn! :smile: ). It was a wide open corn-snow cruiser. I had only been skiing 4 years at the time. I got clocked at 41.

I'm sure I've occasionally hit that just free-skiing, and I'm no racer, so I have no doubt some divas have hit 50++.

So does this mean that, in addition to the requisite side and rear view mirrors attached to our helmets, that we are also going to have to have speedometers????
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm wondering how it has worked out in CO?? I'm totally on the fence as to how well this will all work. Court dockets are already hopelessly overcrowded in most places. Yet some cases totally warrant this level of action. Guess time will tell??
 

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