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Help Needed: Quads burning - causes?

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
When I got new boots a few years ago, I had tremendous quad burn. Turns out that Salomon flex in their new line was much softer than my old boots. I found a different brand that was much stiffer and my quad burn is gone. (...except for the days when I get in the back seat and can't get forward. Mind games/fear gets the best of me.) A more upright boot seems to work better for me, too.
Interesting. I never realized my boots have forward lean adjustment. They are currently set to maximum forward lean, so it will be interesting to dial that back a bit and see what happens. I hope it's not too much of an adjustment period after I finally got used to them as they are. But it's worth experimenting to see if I get more control.
 

Littlesonique

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes. The first boot fitter made them. Of course then the second boot fitter said he didn't think they were very good, so who knows.
:doh:

I will say, the first bootfitter was 4 hours maybe. No custom insoles and put me in a boot too small. I had blisters, used bubble wrap on areas that hurt, my calves were black and blue... and I had quad pain.

The boots I just got (with custom insoles), were like the ski gods singing down on me. No pain, no bubble wrap, no bruises. Almost as comfy as my Vans. Certainly more comfy than my high heels. And no quad pain u less I was going down steep runs and squatting to attempt to slow me down (which really doesn’t work).

I also had lifts (wedges inside) in my old boots... the new bootfitter said I didn’t need them. Of coarse I got home and put them in and tried them on. I immediately removed them.

A good bootfitter would also do a posture analysis to know if the boots work for you or not.

https://www.skinetsports.com/custom-boot-fitting/
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@CindiSue, I've put my comments in red with your post below.

The red boot with red liner is the new boot, the white boot with black liner is the old boot. It looks like the new boot has more forward lean but not sure if that's enough to make a difference. Yes, that much extra forward lean can have an effect on your fore-aft balance. But below you explain that 4 lessons have done an amazing job of helping you get rid of the quad burn. Congrats! I'd stop worrying about the forward lean for this reason. Also, I just read above that the forward lean is adjustable. Really? Then do adjust them to be more upright and check that out. You may be surprised at the difference it makes, either good or bad. I also took a photo from the back where there appear to be adjustment screws? Is that what those are?

Now I have taken 4 classes since I wrote this post, and skied 7 times total. I have "re-learned" how to ski at this point and my quads aren't burning anymore. SUCCESS! (Well, they did get tired yesterday but I was skiing in a foot of new snow so that is to be expected...) I am staying forward most of the time. This means you are not sitting back, which might have been the source of the stressed quads. What helped me the most was a) remembering to complete my turns, the best ever tactic for speed control then b) keeping my uphill ski closer to my downhill ski as the turn completes reducing inside tip lead eliminates a common movement to the rear of the skis at the end of a turn which then causes the next turn to be started from an aft position and I go into the new turn, c) getting back into the rhythm of upright position I'm assuming this means no longer squatted aft as the new turn starts to start the turns, d) almost all my weight on the outside ski, Hooray, that's a fundamental right there and e) side bend also known as angulation, which puts weight onto that outside ski where it belongs and where it gives you more control into "c or banana shape" especially on steeper stuff Congrats on overriding the fear- that's a big deal. All these slowed me down, gave me control, allowed me to mostly stay forward, without having to really flex and trash those quads.

But I find it weird that I'm still skiing more slowly and still having a lot more trouble on steep slopes than I did with my old boots.

So is it possible that I just had gotten more functional with a crappy technique, and now I'm starting over with a better technique, so anything I did before isn't relevant now? I agree with you, it's probably not the boots but the awkwardness of new skill set that is not yet fully integrated into your skiing. For example I carved well on really shallow stuff which I don't even ski anymore because we don't have any at my new mountain, but I skidded a lot on steep stuff. Racers carve on steep stuff. That makes them go real fast, at speeds unsafe for recreational skiers. What you felt and labelled as carving probably was not technically carving. I'm not sure what you were doing, however. That instructor taught you great stuff. Can you do one more lesson to deal with your form on steeps?
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@CindiSue, I've put my comments in red with your post below.
Can you do one more lesson to deal with your form on steeps?
Thanks for the positive reinforcement! Good to know I'm on the right track. Yes, I am in the Sun Valley Divas Program and have classes weekly. I have 4 classes left! It's hard at the moment to focus on technique because we've had 4 feet of snow and it's a totally different crazy kind of skiing :-) But if it ever stops snowing and we get groomed in, I'll be looking to do more work on steeper slopes.
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'll pop into the Atomic shop at Tremblant tomorrow and ask Alex about the screws. Our local shop didn't have any.
The adjustments on the sides I thought were the forward lean seem to be a side to side cuff adjustment. Is it the ones in back that might adjust?
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
There are 2 bolts on the back of the spine. I was into the shop yesterday and didn't even see ANY boots. I'll try again today, as I didn't see Alex either.
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There are 2 bolts on the back of the spine. I was into the shop yesterday and didn't even see ANY boots. I'll try again today, as I didn't see Alex either.
Thanks. It seems like maybe we would need a different shape "bar". Shorter.

I also have these things inside my boots (see photo). Are those part of the boot or something the fitter added? Seems like they are also pushing me more forward, or is that unrelated to forward lean and that's just taking space around my calf?
 

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MissySki

Angel Diva
Thanks. It seems like maybe we would need a different shape "bar". Shorter.

I also have these things inside my boots (see photo). Are those part of the boot or something the fitter added? Seems like they are also pushing me more forward, or is that unrelated to forward lean and that's just taking space around my calf?

Looks like a spoiler, taking it out will definitely get you that much more upright as it is pushing you forward. Some boots come with them.
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Looks like a spoiler, taking it out will definitely get you that much more upright as it is pushing you forward. Some boots come with them.
Wow, that makes a difference! I can actually stand up straight and walk now! I don't see a disadvantage to having it out, as I can still get forward easy enough. Is there a disadvantage?
 
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MissySki

Angel Diva
Wow, that makes a difference! I can actually stand up straight and walk now! I don't see a disadvantage to having it out, as I can still get forward easy enough. Is there a disadvantage?

Not that I have ever seen for myself. I have always removed them in boots that included them because my anatomy is very sensitive to too much forward lean as well.

I think for some it is useful to take up volume to get the correct stance in the boot. That depends on your particular leg and how it interacts with the boot cuff. It is something really easy to swap in and out yourself to see what you prefer on the slopes. Being able to stand up without them and get that pressure off of your quads sounds like a good indicator to ski without them and see if it offers some relief!
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Try this.....undo those 2 bolts on the spine. You'll need an allen key. Slide the slider up or down. On my Atomic's it's actually marked...13,15,17. That is the degree of forward lean. I have them at 15, which is the centre mark. I'm to the village now and I'll see if Alex is in today.
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Try this.....undo those 2 bolts on the spine. You'll need an allen key. Slide the slider up or down. On my Atomic's it's actually marked...13,15,17. That is the degree of forward lean. I have them at 15, which is the centre mark. I'm to the village now and I'll see if Alex is in today.
Unfortunately in my case the slider takes up the entire space. So I'm not sure if we would need to grind it a little, or if there are different size pieces and we need a different sized one. These are Atomic Redster FIS 90 2015 or 2016. The specs say 16-18 forward lean.
 

CindiSue

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
OMG, I can ski! We adjusted the boot lean the little we were able to with the side adjustments and removed the spoilers, and I skied yesterday like a different person. It was amazing. Twice as fast, comfortable on all kinds of terrain including steeper, icier, snowier, etc. I truly hate the guy who did my boots. Right away I thought something was wrong and went back a few times, once practically in tears, and his answer was "it's a steep mountain, you have to get better at skiing." Never mind that I skied it fine with the old boots. But he convinced me.

This took me way too long to resolve. I'm confident and assertive about everything in life except sports, I guess because I never did it growing up and don't think of myself as good at it. But at least I didn't quit without trying one more time. Better late than never, right? Thank you Divas! Thank you liquidfeet, Jilly and others.

p.s. Having had boot fit problems from the time I started skiing, I must say that what I hate about this sport is how important equipment is and how hard it is to know when you have the right equipment.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
OMG, I can ski! We adjusted the boot lean the little we were able to with the side adjustments and removed the spoilers, and I skied yesterday like a different person. It was amazing. Twice as fast, comfortable on all kinds of terrain including steeper, icier, snowier, etc. I truly hate the guy who did my boots. Right away I thought something was wrong and went back a few times, once practically in tears, and his answer was "it's a steep mountain, you have to get better at skiing." Never mind that I skied it fine with the old boots. But he convinced me.

This took me way too long to resolve. I'm confident and assertive about everything in life except sports, I guess because I never did it growing up and don't think of myself as good at it. But at least I didn't quit without trying one more time. Better late than never, right? Thank you Divas! Thank you liquidfeet, Jilly and others.

p.s. Having had boot fit problems from the time I started skiing, I must say that what I hate about this sport is how important equipment is and how hard it is to know when you have the right equipment.

Yay, that is sooooo great to hear that the simple fixes helped so much!!!!

It definitely sounds like you need a new bootfitter going forward. The biggest thing is someone who listens and assesses based on that.. to just disregard your concerns and tell you to learn to ski better is unacceptable in my book!!! ESPECIALLY given that your description of your issues were pretty easy to "diagnose" here with some easy things to at least try! The spoilers being removed was something really really basic that he could have tried explaining to you. Mind boggling why he didn't go down that path to begin with.

I'd like to say that you'll never have boot issues again, but it's unlikely.. I myself have had on and off problems for as long as I can remember with boots. Made some recent tweaks that made huge differences after skiing with some issues for a couple of years that I was trying to ignore because I didn't want to start making more changes again, ugh that was dumb of me.

Find someone you trust now if you can so that when things do come up you have them to fall back on!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....
p.s. Having had boot fit problems from the time I started skiing, I must say that what I hate about this sport is how important equipment is and how hard it is to know when you have the right equipment.

Yes, this ^.

It shouldn't be so hard to know when you have the right boots and the right bootfitter, but I don't think that's going to change. Boots are the most important piece of a skier's gear, but most recreational skiers don't know that.

Too many skiers just buy poorly-fitting boots and assume that their skiing problems are due to the grooming, the weather, their skill level, or their skis. If people would complain about the boots more often, this might change. There are too many variables they can blame, and they just don't know how important the boots are.

Manufacturers don't help. Their marketing of boots is totally misleading. Fit matters; bells and whistles don't.
 

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