Problems with Gore-Tex?

[MaineSkiLady]

Just was wondering if anyone has had similar problems as I have had with Gore-Tex jackets. They shed moisture beautifully, but THEY JUST DON'T BREATHE as well as I'd hoped. As we all know, trapped moisture is, well, sometimes day-ending, especially in very cold climates. I've tried all kinds of venting - unfortunately, I need it most in the back, which is where I wind up with "ice." And this one Marmot does not have a zipper in the back. I haven't used any fabric revival on it, as it does not seem to need it. Would that help?

I know that some lines like Cloudveil and Arcteryx are exclusively Gore-Tex for shell material. Do they breathe?

 

[Kimmyt]

FWIW I've never really found a truly waterproof fabric that breathes. At least not well. Not sure it's possible. But there may be degrees... I guess thats why the good Lord invented pit zips!

K.

 

[num]

FWIW I've never really found a truly waterproof fabric that breathes. At least not well. Not sure it's possible.

Agreed. It's all about the venting. As many vents as possible, close them all if you don't need them most of them time, but when you need them, you'll be thankful you have the option of opening them.

 

[Jilly]

There is a give and take wrt waterproof. More waterproof, less breathability. Does you jacket have a rating on it somewhere. That will help the next time you purchase. Goretex is a membrane fabric. There are miniscule holes in it to allow it to breath. If you sweat alot, then look for more breathability in the coat, or more vents. Again more breathability, less waterproofness. It's hard to decide.

 

[sibhusky]

I always go for more waterproof, less breathable. I just don't sweat that much and it's never been an issue. Of course, this is the first year I've owned a Gore-Tex jacket withOUT pit zips. It's an Arc'teryx and the lack of them surprised me. (I guess I'm supposed to buy another one of their jackets for those days.) So, I'll be using an old Descente that is like a sponge for those days when I know moisture will not be an issue.

I bought the Arc'teryx based on lots of rave reviews on them, but I am reserving judgement. I may return it to Backcountry after one day in it for all I know.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I gave up on the Gore-Tex shell for skiing. Found another jacket that's more suitable for New England cold and which does have the breathability rating (this is a relatively new thing to have on the tags, last few years??). My adult son, a/k/a "Sweathog," gave his seal of approval to those numbers - and he was right - no problems. The Marmot shell is now relegated to non-skiing heavy rain use.

The absolute worst thing in the world is to have ICE form inside the jacket - wow, has anyone ever had THAT happen?? It ended a day at Snowbird for me once. The jacket LITERALLY FROZE from the inside out as soon as I slowed down (I gave it away a week after I got home).

 

[sibhusky]

How do you read those "micron" numbers on tags? Is a higher number better or not as good?

 

[ski diva]

The higher the number, the better. For example, something that says it's 10,000 mm waterproof is more waterproof than something that's 5,000 mm.

Also, just so you know: water repellent means that water beads on the fabric. Waterproof is the degree of water pressure that can be applied to a fabric, yet still keep the water on the outside of the fabric.

 

[Jilly]

Somebody's been paying attention at PK's - 10000mm means a cylinder of water that reaches 10,000 mm (33ft) tall before the fabric leaks. (not sure on the diameter of the cylinder) I think that pretty waterproof.

 

[sibhusky]

Good, the new pants I got say 20,000. The Spyder pants, which look GREAT on me, naturally only say 5,000.

 

[ski diva]

One more thing: seams are either critically seam sealed or fully seam sealed. Critically sealed means that the seams most in touch with the elements are sealed to keep out moisture. Fully seam sealed means that ALL seams are sealed this way.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

All great info, many thanks. I checked the saved tag info for my current jacket, and it says 10000 for waterproof. It's not Gore-Tex, but it seems to do well for repelling snow. Has anyone ever used any of that stuff that renews water repellent qualities of jackets and pants? (Product name escapes me. ) There are 2 versions: spray-on and use in wash. I've heard mixed reviews. My pants could use a treatment, not sure what way to go with this.

 

[sibhusky]

I've tried the in wash stuff on one pair of pants that were relentlessly sponge-like, didn't help. May have been helpful for one Gore-Tex jacket that wasn't too bad. The spray on stuff needs to be done OUTSIDE, but of course it's too cold out for its specs. Also it tends to be difficult to apply evenly. I've used all the brands there are and they all have similar issues. Some even leave a white haze on things. So, I'd try the wash type again, but really the best thing is to have Gore-Tex XCR because in two years you'll still be pretty waterproof.

 

[Gloria]

I've been off gore-tex jackets for about seven years now, I almost went to the darkside again, but once I got it on, ick. I can't go back, I just like the breathability and the fit of some of the modern fabrics. I personally only have trouble with my pants getting wet while I am on the chair, so I won't suffer through the Gore top anymore. I feel like I am in a paperbag when I put on a gore-tex shell. I have also been ALOTwarmer without it. I would be willing to bet that most upper body moisture from skiing occurs on the inside, not the outside.

 

[Elangirl]

I only use Gore Tex pants---I have to be out all day, no matter what and it is really unpleasant to have a wet butt!!

But, there are wome things about Gore tex=-=one thing is that if the little holes get plugged up it does not vent---so, GT jackets need to be washed in low reisdue detergent---I use Grangier right now. Then, after 4 or 5 washed, I use the wash in waterproofing for my garments.

I find that a Gore Tex jacket only lasts so long---my Marmot only made it to ten years!!! But, avoid liquid soaps since they stay in your jackets. Any alwyas double rinse ski wear.

I wash my pants about every two weeks in Grainger. They are Spyder and have not leaked at all--but this is the second year. I used the Grainger waterproofing at the end of the season.

 

[volklgirl]

Has anyone ever used any of that stuff that renews water repellent qualities of jackets and pants? (Product name escapes me. ) There are 2 versions: spray-on and use in wash. I've heard mixed reviews. My pants could use a treatment, not sure what way to go with this.

Yes. The Nikwax wash-in works really well provided:

• You follow the directions.
• The original DWR isn't TOTALLY worn off.
• You use some heat to dry the items....it seems to set the DWR in.

 

[Jilly]

I remember too the Columbia rep stating use powder soap not liquid. It seems to damage the DWR.

 

[Quiver Queen]

I really wanted a GoreTex shell, but it had to meet certain criteria--fleece-lined collar, powder skirt, pit zips, etc.--and now that I've used it a season I'm sure I made a good choice. It's a Cloudveil RPK. Getting overheated or damp inside hasn't been a problem, and since it doesn't provide any warmth to speak of, I get to layer however I want underneath to suit the day's conditions. Yeah, it's a little bit stiff, but that's a minor downside. All of our tech fabrics get washed in Nik-Wax and have done well.

 

[tradygirl]

I do have a question for some of you ladies that are commenting about the excess moisture and even ice on the inside of your jacket (yikes!). What were you wearing under the shell? If you're to the point of having ice forming on the inside of your jacket, I would think your layering system needs an adjustment.

If you regulate your temperature well, I personally think Gore-tex and other waterproof shells are the warmest option on really cold, windy days provided that my underlayers are insulating enough (shells provide zero insulation and warmth). On the same note, I don't wear my laminate shell if it's not going to be cold and windy, since it's not very breathable.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

The infamous jacket that "iced" was actually a Columbia, one with a zip-in polar fleece liner. I was wearing a lightweight poly-fleece t-neck beneath. It was years ago (9??). The moisture did not breathe out of the shell, which retained it. When I stopped for a while, the moisture froze solid. I gave the jacket away! This also happened to DH with one particularly infamous instructor jacket, which had similar zip-in fleece construction. The jacket was so universally despised by the ski school for these same reasons that it was replaced the next year.

Things have come a long way---I've since found jackets and a layering system that prevents this. My best friend is a horizontal back zipper. Pit zips aren't enough and are certainly misplaced for my situation. Gore-Tex is fine if I'm not working hard. And I guess I work hard when I ski??