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Preexisting condition and IKON Pass Insurance

skibum4ever

Angel Diva
Ok admittedly I now have a preexisting condition. I have my first appointment with a non orthopedic specialist next week, an endocrinologist who hopefully will help me figure out what's going on with my bones. Remember that my bone density scans, which measure at the hips and spine (what most people break) are good yet I had a minimal fall and broke multiple bones. This has never made much sense to me and no amount of "googling" has shed any light on the subject.

There is little doubt that my body will be strong enough to ski next season. I intend to work hard on rehab all summer and will probably be in better shape by November than I have been for prior ski seasons. The big question mark is my bone density. It may take a while to figure it out. I was fortunate to get this appointment in March since apparently there is a shortage of some specialists. But if there is medication to rebuild my bones I know I should have started taking it two months ago.

I just read the fine print regarding IKON pass insurance. It clearly states that preexisting conditions are excluded from coverage. It sounds like I can't purchase a pass and expect a refund. Though I will know better in six months about whether I can ski next season, they won't be selling the pass for the same price by then.

What's a crazy avid but admittedly injured girl to do? Note that my Mammoth surgeon said that I would ski again next winter. But my LA surgeon said I would never ski again. You know which opinion I favor.

Has anyone else faced a similar dilemma? Sorry about the 4 am rant. TIA.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
It sounds like you have an opportunity to talk with the endocrinologist before buying the Ikon pass. But take into account, if you don't get the maximum discount, you can still buy the pass. The price increases are not usually huge. We all want the lowest price, but you might not want to gamble on it.

I am skiing with osteoporosis, as are others here. (Paging @santacruz skier ) I was shocked when I mentioned skiing to my new endocrinologist and she didn't blink an eye. So, don't jump to conclusions - and we all know that our 4 am conclusions can be a bit overblown.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
Low bone density is probably NOT a pre existing condition. If you move to a divas only thread or pm me, I’ll be happy to talk about it.
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@skibum4ever what are you specifically looking at? There are 3 different "insurance" policies with the IKON --

I. Adventure Assurance - Adventure Assurance comes free this year with every 22/23 Ikon Pass. Designed to alleviate uncertainty while providing flexibility for Ikon Pass holders, Adventure Assurance gives pass holders credits in the case of COVID-related closures and the option to defer the purchase price of an unused pass by December 8, no questions asked.
If you decide to buy and not ski prior to Dec 8th, you can defer the $ for the unused pass.


II. Pass protection - Spot - https://www.partnerships.getspot.com/ikon-pass-pass

"Spot Pass Protection provides reimbursement for the prepaid nonrefundable cost of a season pass less any refunds issued when you cancel your pass due to a covered unforeseen reason"

The full policy is here: https://www.partnerships.getspot.com/_files/ugd/197b3f_f51b1adb3e844fdca72d5da279bea5b9.pdf
You may want to read the entire policy very closely. There is a look back for 60 days with regards to Pre-exisiting Medical conditions. This is how most travel insurance plans are worded, general if you were not "treated" for a condition or illness with in 60 days of your "trip" its not a pre-existing condition. See Page 8. There is also a "medically fit to travel" exclusion on Page 10. But there is no medically fit to ski exclusion.

In the past I believe the Pass protection covered you if you were not able to use it b/c of a defined loss and then perhaps even pro-rated the refund if you had used the pass. Interestingly there is only a provision for "trip cancellation" coverage but no dollar amounts or limits are listed. There is no pass protection provision per se, but yet reference to "100% of non-refundable insured Trip Cost is covered"?? Then on Page 8-9 Season Pass is defined, but not the "Pass Refund" and Trip Cost is again defined as what the insurance was purchased for. This is really unclear and it looks like they took their basic trip coverage insurance and tried to add some language to cover the ski pass. Is the Trip Cost the Ski Pass? What does Trip cancellation have to do with Pass Refund? What happens if you used your pass and have an incident after using it for 3 months? Do I get my trip paid for? Do I get my pass refunded even if I used it? I'm not sure what this policy really covers.....But I do know this is quite poorly cobbled together and the explanation on the Ikon site does not match up with the details of the insurance policy.

III. Injury Insurance - Spot

An additional purchase option, Injury Insurance covers eligible out-of-pocket medical expenses if an Ikon Pass holder is injured while using their pass.
Seems to be additional coverage for medical expenses - but there is no price or detailed information other than this:

Interestingly enough, NONE of the Spot insurance covers you if you were "intoxicated or under the influence" if/when an injury or cancellation of the trip occurs. So honestly I'd be more worried that just participating in Apres Ski activities could cause cancellation of all of the "Spot" insurance coverage.........
 

mustski

Angel Diva
@skibum4ever lives clean so she has no worries on the blood “intoxication” levels. I would guess that if you don’t declare it, they can’t identify a condition as pre-existing. The cost of hiring lawyers would far outweigh the cost of the pass.
 

skibum4ever

Angel Diva
@skibum4ever lives clean so she has no worries on the blood “intoxication” levels. I would guess that if you don’t declare it, they can’t identify a condition as pre-existing. The cost of hiring lawyers would far outweigh the cost of the pass.

Except...I would need a physician's letter stating the reason that I could no longer ski and needed a refund on my pass. Not sure how that would work.
 

skibum4ever

Angel Diva
I think I should have gotten a law degree. I am seriously contemplating the purchase of a pass. I think that @WaterGirl nailed it above but I wanted to copy the entire section from the definition of Pass Protection:

"Pre-Existing Medical Condition means an illness, disease, or other condition during the sixty (60) day period immediately
prior to the date Your coverage is effective for which You or a Family Member:
1) received or received a recommendation for a test, examination, or medical treatment for a condition which first
manifested itself, worsened or became acute, or had symptoms which would have prompted a reasonable person
to seek diagnosis, care or treatment; or
2) took or received a prescription for drugs or medicine. Item (2) of this definition does not apply to a condition which is treated or controlled solely through the taking of prescription drugs or medicine and remains treated or controlled without any adjustment or change in the required prescription throughout the sixty (60) day period before coverage is effective under this certificate.
3) required a change in prescribed medication. Change in prescribed medication means the dosage or frequency
of a medication has been reduced, increased, stopped and/or new medications have been prescribed due to
the worsening of an underlying condition that is being treated with the medication, unless the change is:
a) between a brand name and a generic medication with comparable dosage; or
b) an adjustment to insulin or anti-coagulant dosage."

Does this mean that I am OK if I don't see need to see a specialist after September 8, assuming that Mammoth will open around November 8? Probably this is not an issue because by then I will have seen the surgeon and the endocrinologist again...if I am interpreting it correctly.

And I haven't even read the fine print for "Injury Protection" yet? Has anyone selected that option?

I also know that I can defer my pass until December 8 if I decide not to ski this season.

So many options...
 

Abbi

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I will be following this thread. I have been wondering the same thing about buying the spot insurance. I’m old enough that I inevitably have stuff going on! So if I had stuff but my stuff got a lot worse so I couldn’t ski does that count? I am not a lawyer and I did not play one on TV! :crazy:
 

skibum4ever

Angel Diva
This is the Epic coverage. It seems to be included in the cost of a season pass.

Note that your injury or illness has to be diagnosed after you purchase your pass,
OR
have new or worsening symptoms after you buy the pass.

This seems to open up more of a refund option than the rules for the IKON pass.

Again seeking opinions on this topic. With condos in both Keystone and Mammoth, we need to buy both passes if I/we intend to ski this coming winter.


"Illness or Injury of You or a Family Member. You are unable to use your Pass during the Core Season because you or a Family Member who lives in the same Permanent Residence as you suffers an accidental bodily injury, a physical illness, or a physical disease that: (i) is diagnosed by a Physician after you purchase your Pass or (ii) presents significant new or worsening symptoms that are diagnosed by a Physician after you purchase your Pass. To qualify, the injury, illness, or disease must prevent you from using your Pass for thirty (30) or more consecutive days, at least seven (7) days of which are during the Core Season. This provision applies only if you provide verification from a Physician."
 

NWSkiGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a dismal experience getting money back from Vail under their guarantee.

I bought a Whistler Edge Card for $479 CAD for 2019/20, but I couldn't get across the border for my April trip due to Covid. So I paid an additional $100 CAD to roll my pass over to 2020/2021, but again the border was closed so I paid another $100 CAD to roll it over to 2021/22.

I got pregnant this year and submitted a doctor's note and they said I qualified for a FULL REFUND... of $100 CAD out the $679 CAD I had spent.

They are very creative and make up their own rules!
 

skibum4ever

Angel Diva
@NWSkiGirl that doesn't seem very fair to me. Can you appeal to your charge card company?

It took months and multiple emails and phone calls, but both our Epic passes were fully refunded.
 

NWSkiGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@NWSkiGirl that doesn't seem very fair to me. Can you appeal to your charge card company?

It took months and multiple emails and phone calls, but both our Epic passes were fully refunded.
It was a shock! Disputing the charges will be hard, because the three charges were over three years. I read you can only dispute a credit card charge within 60 days? I can't even imagine going through Vail's Covid and other policies, and I don't have access to an attorney. Whistler was different to deal with before Vail... I'm glad you got everything back!
 

skinnyfootskis

Angel Diva
I have medical insurance for injuries but wanted the SPOT (Ikon) insurance if I get injured during ski season. (Like I did this year when I got plowed by a snowboarder it took me a full 3 weeks to feel better and be able to fully move albeit I tweaked my back that same week so whichever it was it made me stop skiing). I think if you use your pass at all and get injured at some point they won't so anything for you since you "used" its value??? Any opinion? Or to have it if I need to go take care of a family member etc. I bet there are other insurances available out there.....
 

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