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Poppy ski for advanced skier in coastal/interior BC

shadoj

Angel Diva
How do I cross link? @shadoj (can you tell I'm not a computer engineer? :-)
Well, a writeup here is fine, unless you want to write some in-depth review of a particular model with its own thread, I guess. But there should be a little icon at the top of a comment to "share this post" where you can copy the URL of a comment. Not sure if you can link an entire thread. Just because I write software doesn't mean I can use it! ;)
 

rivarunnamomma

Certified Ski Diva
I have just returned from five days of demo'ing skis in Whistler, based on recommendations from many Ski Divas, and thought I'd share my impressions. The bottom line is: I'm SO CONFUSED!

To recap, here's what I'm looking for, from my original post:

I'm looking for a set of skis that is poppy and energetic for use at the resort on days without new snow. Here, in interior/coastal BC (Smithers) that means soft bumps and soft groomers with a few remaining stashes of powder on the edges or tucked between trees. Nice if they don't get too thrown around too much in cut up snow. Not sure this ski exists!
Stats: 57 year old, advanced, directional, finesse skier, allergic to slarving and air.

Part of my problem was that Whistler has not received much new snow in the past couple of weeks. Freeze/thaw cycles have left ice balls in the alpine; refrozen crud; scraped bumps; and suicidal tree skiing. As a result, I ended up on a lot of super firm groomers and the occasional patch of bumps where the sun had softened things up -- not in any way representative of the soft conditions I usually find at home in Smithers (10 hours north). I had to do a lot of "imagining" what the ski might be like in (my) "normal" conditions.

I demo'd six different skis, and wished I had time for six more. The fine folks at Evo listened to what I wanted, viewed my "short list", and picked the order of the first four skis as follows:

Blizzard Sheeva 9 (165) - Pros: Easy to get along with, intuitive, reliable ski. No surprises. Cons: This was the first ski I tried and I didn't like how heavy it was compared to the really light touring skis I'm used to. So I had an instant bias against them. They also "ski short" and seemed to prefer slarving to carving so second strike against them. I found it difficult to ski a precise turn on firm snow. Rather, they liked a smeared turn, so I didn't get the energy I wanted coming out of the turn. In the bumps, I found them quick enough, but kinda' board-like, so again, it didn't have the rebound I wanted. Overall impression: Meh. OK on everything - but nothing was great.

Line Pandora 104 (165) - Pros: Quite light so felt really "zippy"! (Instant positive impression.) Easy to initiate a carved turn (another plus). Stiffer tail which made holding/finishing a turn a joy after so many years on powder skis with early rise and tapered tips/tails. Held an edge on firm snow really well. Cons: Lots of chatter on harder snowpack at medium+ speeds (probably much less noticeable on softer snow). I know this is a natural consequence of the type of ski I'm looking for but hoped I could find something that was equally poppy and carvy but a bit damper. I also suspected the very light tips would get deflected easily in cut up snow but I had no chance to test them in these conditions. Overall impression: I really liked this ski, perhaps because it was so different than what I've been on for 10+ years, but I was worried that it wouldn't be stable enough at speed or in the cut up conditions that I'd use them. Next ....

Black Crows Camox (170) - I have to admit I am rather star struck by the Black Crows brand given its Chamonix/niche origins so would love to find something in their lineup that works for me. Pros: Held an edge like a razor on firm snow. Stayed really stable at higher speeds. Able to carve a nice turn. Cons: Heavy compared to the Pandora and skis I'm used to (that negative bias again). My legs felt pretty done after a half day on them, but perhaps it was it was because I was unused to skiing on hard pack?. Shovels were very different than the Sheeva and Pandora, and took more input to initiate turns but once it was in the turn, it held and finished a carve nicely. I got lots of rebound on both groomers and in bumps but it took a lot of driving. Overall impression: A great amount of pop, power, and stability but I felt they required too much work to get what I wanted out of them. Perhaps a shorter length (or younger legs?) would have been better?

Rossignol Escaper (similar to Stargazer) (165) - I have to admit a bias against Rossignol because everyone skied the Soul 7s but I was open to trying them. Women's version of Escaper (Stargazer) wasn't available in my size, so took out the men's version which I was told is very similar if not identical. Pros: Easy ski to get along with right from the start. Easy to initiate a turn, held an edge ok, didn't get squirrelly at moderate speed. Cons: Again, seemed to prefer a slarve more than a carve - took some work to hold a carved turn on a groomer. Again, found it was too damp to generate much rebound on groomers or in bumps. The harder I drove the ski, the more it felt like I was overpowering the tips and the skis would dive sideways. Then I thought perhaps it wasn't the ski that was "jumpy" - perhaps it was because my light Scarpa Gea AT boots lack the more progressive flex of an alpine boot and my attempts to drive the ski were not being transferred smoothly to the ski. This is when the confusion really started to set in! I thought perhaps I should try a longer length but only had one day left, so wanted to try a few more skis instead. Overall impression: Ok but not great ... but not sure why.

There were several other skis I really wanted to try (but weren't available in my size) including the Santa Ana 94 or 104 and the Fischer Ranger 93 or 104 (they're pink) and I was scared of the Faction Dictator 2.0 (even though they're pink) so I tried a couple of skis recommended by the Evo folks:

Atomic Bent Chetler 100 (165) - I've always been scared of this ski because of the reputation of its wider cousin (BC 120) but Evo assured me it was a very different beast ... so I took a flyer and turns out, it was a lot of fun. (I instantly regretted not trying the Dictator.) Pros: Super easy to initiate turns, light weight especially in the front end due to tapered tips, holds an edge really well, more stable at higher speed than the other skis I tried (with the exception of the Camox). Cons: Suspect they were too short - felt I overpowered the shovels in bumps and sometimes on firm groomers. And given how light they were, I was worried they'd really get bucked around in cut up snow. Overall impression: Think they had potential - wished I had tried them in a longer length.

K2 Mindbender 106 (175) - Somehow ended up on a 175 instead of 165/170 so I initially thought the ski was stiffer than the others I'd tried, but it didn't turn out to be the case. Pros: Nice rebound out of turns on groomers. Stable at speed (could have been the extra cms?). Cons: Extra length made them a bit more of a challenge for me in hard bumps. Heavier than I like (my bias again). Wish I had tried them in a shorter length.

When I read thru my assembled impressions above, I feel completely schizophrenic. Maybe I didn't ski anything for enough time (1/2 day each), or the conditions were just not similar enough to where I'm going to use these skis, or maybe I'm just really indecisive; or maybe it's me that lacks pop and energy -- not the ski.

Problem is: I'm back home now, without any demos available in the sizes I need, so I'm not sure about my next step. Based on everything I've learned about weight, tip/camber/tail profiles, flex pattern and materials -- and what I (think) I like -- I am almost tempted to buy something I haven't tried and hope for the best. At the moment, that would probably be the Fischer Ranger 94 or 102 FR or perhaps the Santa Ana 93.

Based on my cryptic comments, and obvious confusion, I'd appreciate any suggestions that Divas might have. Feel free to include contact info for your favourite therapist :-)

Thanks!
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
I’m going to be a real pain in your butt and suggest that you get some Renouns, mount them, ski them, and if you don’t love them, return them. Given your location, that may be your best bet.

the only skis lighter in our house than mine are my daughter’s 130cm kid skis. It’s phenomenal. BUT, they stiffen when needed and you’re basically always in control.

Mine have made me so much more confident and aggressive. I suspect a better skier would have even better results.
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My quick thoughts -- your Scarpa Gea's are a more lateral boot. If you are trying to drive a heavier directional ski you may not have the same output as a regular alpine boot. (I have the Gea's also). My set up for the Gea is the Elan Ripstick 94.

FWIW I find that the Crows have a much different feel on the soft snow. Again, I have not been on this version of the Camox, but even on the new Orb which has "metal" (I have 3 days skiing it now) I find that it has that same fun soft snow DNA.
 

rivarunnamomma

Certified Ski Diva
Thanks @Iwannaski for the reply and suggestion! I am not familiar with Renouns, but I have checked out their website and found their money back guarantee. As a result, I have already filled in their two minute quiz to identify the best ski for me. I'm looking forward to learning more about their skis. So .... sorry .... you failed completely to be a pain in my butt! :-)
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
Atomic Bent Chetler 100 (165) - I've always been scared of this ski because of the reputation of its wider cousin (BC 120) but Evo assured me it was a very different beast ... so I took a flyer and turns out, it was a lot of fun. (I instantly regretted not trying the Dictator.) Pros: Super easy to initiate turns, light weight especially in the front end due to tapered tips, holds an edge really well, more stable at higher speed than the other skis I tried (with the exception of the Camox). Cons: Suspect they were too short - felt I overpowered the shovels in bumps and sometimes on firm groomers. And given how light they were, I was worried they'd really get bucked around in cut up snow. Overall impression: Think they had potential - wished I had tried them in a longer length.
I don’t own these (but want to :becky:). For a reference point, I’ve skied the 172 (ish) and I’m about 5’5” 135lbs.

Curious…in your first post you mention skiing skis in the mid-170s regularly, yet you’re demoing 165 +/-? Sorry if I missed it, but are you looking to go shorter than your old skis? What size Blaze are you on?
 

rivarunnamomma

Certified Ski Diva
@elemmac I think you've hit on something. My Blaze are 165 cm. My DPS Yvettes are 168. You're right - I've downsized my skis over the past 5+ years, mostly to make kick turns easier and save a bit of weight on the uphill. Now I'm looking for an in-bounds ski for soft groomers, bumps and trees. I figured it made sense to to stay shorter for more agility in the bumps/trees. But a LOT of the skis I tried (with the exception of the K2 @ 175 & Camox @ 170) felt too short. As long as the tips/tails aren't too stiff, I think I could easily handle a 170. Thanks for the lightbulb moment!
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
@elemmac I think you've hit on something. My Blaze are 165 cm. My DPS Yvettes are 168. You're right - I've downsized my skis over the past 5+ years, mostly to make kick turns easier and save a bit of weight on the uphill. Now I'm looking for an in-bounds ski for soft groomers, bumps and trees. I figured it made sense to to stay shorter for more agility in the bumps/trees. But a LOT of the skis I tried (with the exception of the K2 @ 175 & Camox @ 170) felt too short. As long as the tips/tails aren't too stiff, I think I could easily handle a 170. Thanks for the lightbulb moment!
Happy to help, that’s what this forum is all about!!

The Blaze is one of those ‘magical’ skis that can definitely be skied shorter without giving up stability. I don’t know how Volkl does it, but they manage to somehow. The Sheeva, BC100, and the especially the Stargazer/Escaper are all skis that are often better sized up due to their forgiving nature.

Giving you reference points, I’ve demoed the Blaze 86, 94 & 106 in the 165 length, but demoed all three listed above in a 170+/-, and was comfortable on all accounts with the length.

Also, if you liked the Bent for many reasons, but wanted something with a slightly higher speed limit (but still fun and playful), the Maven 93C might be your ticket.
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hi again @WaterGirl! Thanks for more great feedback. What boot do you run for your Orbs?
Tecnica Mach 1 105 LV. But I will be moving to a stiffer boot in the very near future.
For me the Gea works better laterally with the pin bindings, despite being a softer boot I seem to be able to carve the RipSticks quite well. Maybe its just the Amphibio technology :smile:
 
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rivarunnamomma

Certified Ski Diva
Tecnica Mach 1 105 LV. But I will be moving to a stiffer boot in the very near future.
For me the Gea works better laterally with the pin bindings, despite being a softer boot I seem to be able to carve the RipSticks quite well. Maybe its just the Amphibio technology :smile:
Oi vey! Now I'm going to have to get up to speed on what's what in alpine boots too. Not sure my brain can take so much new info!
 

rivarunnamomma

Certified Ski Diva
Happy to help, that’s what this forum is all about!!

The Blaze is one of those ‘magical’ skis that can definitely be skied shorter without giving up stability. I don’t know how Volkl does it, but they manage to somehow. The Sheeva, BC100, and the especially the Stargazer/Escaper are all skis that are often better sized up due to their forgiving nature.

Giving you reference points, I’ve demoed the Blaze 86, 94 & 106 in the 165 length, but demoed all three listed above in a 170+/-, and was comfortable on all accounts with the length.

Also, if you liked the Bent for many reasons, but wanted something with a slightly higher speed limit (but still fun and playful), the Maven 93C might be your ticket.
@Jilly also recommended the Maven 93. Evo had it ... but I didn't take it out. I think I should wait for a big dump of snow ... and go back to Whistler to demo a completely new lineup including some longer versions of the skis I've already demo'd. (What is the BC 100?)
 

chasinghorizons

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My legs felt pretty done after a half day on them [...] I felt they required too much work to get what I wanted out of them. Perhaps a shorter length (or younger legs?) would have been better?

perhaps it was because my light Scarpa Gea AT boots lack the more progressive flex of an alpine boot and my attempts to drive the ski were not being transferred smoothly to the ski.
I agree with you and @WaterGirl that your boots probably aren't stiff enough and you need a higher flex. A stiffer boot gives more support, so when you drive forward it helps pop you back up again. If the boot is too soft, it makes you work a lot harder (especially in tighter/bumpier terrain) and you feel way more tired at the end of the day.
 

shadoj

Angel Diva
The new 2023 line-up sounds really nice too (although I can't imagine why they discontinued the pink color!)
Yeah, I thought it was popular with guys and girls alike because it was obnoxiously bright pink and fun (none of that demure pastel shrink-n-pink) -- no different from the blue. Maybe they'll see us whining and bring it back next year?
 

Kimmyt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My quick thoughts -- your Scarpa Gea's are a more lateral boot. If you are trying to drive a heavier directional ski you may not have the same output as a regular alpine boot. (I have the Gea's also). My set up for the Gea is the Elan Ripstick 94.

FWIW I find that the Crows have a much different feel on the soft snow. Again, I have not been on this version of the Camox, but even on the new Orb which has "metal" (I have 3 days skiing it now) I find that it has that same fun soft snow DNA.

Man, I could not imagine skiing my Gea's as my regular downhill boot because of how soft they are. For the type of skiing OP likes to do, a stiffer boot will likely add a lot to the equation (although sadly may be opening a whole other can of worms!)
 

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