Poppy ski for advanced skier in coastal/interior BC

[rivarunnamomma]

I agree with you and @WaterGirl that your boots probably aren't stiff enough and you need a higher flex. A stiffer boot gives more support, so when you drive forward it helps pop you back up again. If the boot is too soft, it makes you work a lot harder (especially in tighter/bumpier terrain) and you feel way more tired at the end of the day.

I have been living in such a powder-filled, touring bubble for 10+ years! I can't believe it took me so long to figure this out! I used to ski in alpine race boots ....

 

[rivarunnamomma]

Man, I could not imagine skiing my Gea's as my regular downhill boot because of how soft they are. For the type of skiing OP likes to do, a stiffer boot will likely add a lot to the equation (although sadly may be opening a whole other can of worms!)

Worms are on the loose!

 

[Jilly]

If you're heading back to WB, check in with Barry at Whistler Village Sports. He's my fitter when he summer's in the east. If he doesn't have it, he'll tell you what to get. Here in the east he doesn't sell boots, but fixes them.

 

[rivarunnamomma]

I can't get to Whistler any time soon, so I've found a boot fitter in Victoria, BC where I'm visiting family for the next week. He's at Coast Ski and Sport. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Rockup]

I have just returned from five days of demo'ing skis in Whistler, based on recommendations from many Ski Divas, and thought I'd share my impressions. The bottom line is: I'm SO CONFUSED!

To recap, here's what I'm looking for, from my original post:


Stats: 57 year old, advanced, directional, finesse skier, allergic to slarving and air.

Part of my problem was that Whistler has not received much new snow in the past couple of weeks. Freeze/thaw cycles have left ice balls in the alpine; refrozen crud; scraped bumps; and suicidal tree skiing. As a result, I ended up on a lot of super firm groomers and the occasional patch of bumps where the sun had softened things up -- not in any way representative of the soft conditions I usually find at home in Smithers (10 hours north). I had to do a lot of "imagining" what the ski might be like in (my) "normal" conditions.

I demo'd six different skis, and wished I had time for six more. The fine folks at Evo listened to what I wanted, viewed my "short list", and picked the order of the first four skis as follows:

Blizzard Sheeva 9 (165) - Pros: Easy to get along with, intuitive, reliable ski. No surprises. Cons: This was the first ski I tried and I didn't like how heavy it was compared to the really light touring skis I'm used to. So I had an instant bias against them. They also "ski short" and seemed to prefer slarving to carving so second strike against them. I found it difficult to ski a precise turn on firm snow. Rather, they liked a smeared turn, so I didn't get the energy I wanted coming out of the turn. In the bumps, I found them quick enough, but kinda' board-like, so again, it didn't have the rebound I wanted. Overall impression: Meh. OK on everything - but nothing was great.

Line Pandora 104 (165) - Pros: Quite light so felt really "zippy"! (Instant positive impression.) Easy to initiate a carved turn (another plus). Stiffer tail which made holding/finishing a turn a joy after so many years on powder skis with early rise and tapered tips/tails. Held an edge on firm snow really well. Cons: Lots of chatter on harder snowpack at medium+ speeds (probably much less noticeable on softer snow). I know this is a natural consequence of the type of ski I'm looking for but hoped I could find something that was equally poppy and carvy but a bit damper. I also suspected the very light tips would get deflected easily in cut up snow but I had no chance to test them in these conditions. Overall impression: I really liked this ski, perhaps because it was so different than what I've been on for 10+ years, but I was worried that it wouldn't be stable enough at speed or in the cut up conditions that I'd use them. Next ....

Black Crows Camox (170) - I have to admit I am rather star struck by the Black Crows brand given its Chamonix/niche origins so would love to find something in their lineup that works for me. Pros: Held an edge like a razor on firm snow. Stayed really stable at higher speeds. Able to carve a nice turn. Cons: Heavy compared to the Pandora and skis I'm used to (that negative bias again). My legs felt pretty done after a half day on them, but perhaps it was it was because I was unused to skiing on hard pack?. Shovels were very different than the Sheeva and Pandora, and took more input to initiate turns but once it was in the turn, it held and finished a carve nicely. I got lots of rebound on both groomers and in bumps but it took a lot of driving. Overall impression: A great amount of pop, power, and stability but I felt they required too much work to get what I wanted out of them. Perhaps a shorter length (or younger legs?) would have been better?

Rossignol Escaper (similar to Stargazer) (165) - I have to admit a bias against Rossignol because everyone skied the Soul 7s but I was open to trying them. Women's version of Escaper (Stargazer) wasn't available in my size, so took out the men's version which I was told is very similar if not identical. Pros: Easy ski to get along with right from the start. Easy to initiate a turn, held an edge ok, didn't get squirrelly at moderate speed. Cons: Again, seemed to prefer a slarve more than a carve - took some work to hold a carved turn on a groomer. Again, found it was too damp to generate much rebound on groomers or in bumps. The harder I drove the ski, the more it felt like I was overpowering the tips and the skis would dive sideways. Then I thought perhaps it wasn't the ski that was "jumpy" - perhaps it was because my light Scarpa Gea AT boots lack the more progressive flex of an alpine boot and my attempts to drive the ski were not being transferred smoothly to the ski. This is when the confusion really started to set in! I thought perhaps I should try a longer length but only had one day left, so wanted to try a few more skis instead. Overall impression: Ok but not great ... but not sure why.

There were several other skis I really wanted to try (but weren't available in my size) including the Santa Ana 94 or 104 and the Fischer Ranger 93 or 104 (they're pink) and I was scared of the Faction Dictator 2.0 (even though they're pink) so I tried a couple of skis recommended by the Evo folks:

Atomic Bent Chetler 100 (165) - I've always been scared of this ski because of the reputation of its wider cousin (BC 120) but Evo assured me it was a very different beast ... so I took a flyer and turns out, it was a lot of fun. (I instantly regretted not trying the Dictator.) Pros: Super easy to initiate turns, light weight especially in the front end due to tapered tips, holds an edge really well, more stable at higher speed than the other skis I tried (with the exception of the Camox). Cons: Suspect they were too short - felt I overpowered the shovels in bumps and sometimes on firm groomers. And given how light they were, I was worried they'd really get bucked around in cut up snow. Overall impression: Think they had potential - wished I had tried them in a longer length.

K2 Mindbender 106 (175) - Somehow ended up on a 175 instead of 165/170 so I initially thought the ski was stiffer than the others I'd tried, but it didn't turn out to be the case. Pros: Nice rebound out of turns on groomers. Stable at speed (could have been the extra cms?). Cons: Extra length made them a bit more of a challenge for me in hard bumps. Heavier than I like (my bias again). Wish I had tried them in a shorter length.

When I read thru my assembled impressions above, I feel completely schizophrenic. Maybe I didn't ski anything for enough time (1/2 day each), or the conditions were just not similar enough to where I'm going to use these skis, or maybe I'm just really indecisive; or maybe it's me that lacks pop and energy -- not the ski.

Problem is: I'm back home now, without any demos available in the sizes I need, so I'm not sure about my next step. Based on everything I've learned about weight, tip/camber/tail profiles, flex pattern and materials -- and what I (think) I like -- I am almost tempted to buy something I haven't tried and hope for the best. At the moment, that would probably be the Fischer Ranger 94 or 102 FR or perhaps the Santa Ana 93.

Based on my cryptic comments, and obvious confusion, I'd appreciate any suggestions that Divas might have. Feel free to include contact info for your favourite therapist :-)

Thanks!

I have the Bent Chetler 100 and they're actually pretty amazing in cut up snow (I mostly ski in Tahoe and heavy wet cut up snow is unfortunately quite common here)! I'm 5'2" and have the 164 length which is great for me. They're the longest skis I've ever owned and I do think they ski quite short. If you're taller I could easily believe you might want them in a longer length I bought mine last season and they're easily my favorite ski ever now. I've skied them in a lot of conditions and really the only thing they're not amazing at is steep ice. I love how poppy and responsive they are while still being stable.

I haven't skied the Fischer Ranger but I have skied the Santa Ana 93 and I found it far less fun and responsive than the Bent Chetler.

 

[rivarunnamomma]

I have the Bent Chetler 100 and they're actually pretty amazing in cut up snow (I mostly ski in Tahoe and heavy wet cut up snow is unfortunately quite common here)! I'm 5'2" and have the 164 length which is great for me. They're the longest skis I've ever owned and I do think they ski quite short. If you're taller I could easily believe you might want them in a longer length I bought mine last season and they're easily my favorite ski ever now. I've skied them in a lot of conditions and really the only thing they're not amazing at is steep ice. I love how poppy and responsive they are while still being stable.

I haven't skied the Fischer Ranger but I have skied the Santa Ana 93 and I found it far less fun and responsive than the Bent Chetler.

Thanks @Rockup so much for the recommendation. I did like them quite a bit, but pretty sure they were too short. The demos were around a 165 and I'm 5'7"/135 and a strong, directional skier so based on your experience, I should go longer. Hopefully I can get another chance to demo them this season.

 

[lakeviewpowder]

@rivarunnamomma I second the Bent Chetler 100. I am 5'4 and ski the 164cm. It's a great playful soft snow ski. Great bump ski for its width (shorter length helps). The Bent Chetler has a top end speed limit, but I was surprised how fast I could go without feeling chatter or any instability (considering they don't have any metal in them).

I know you said you wanted something in the 95 mm underfoot area, but your "East Coast past experience" comment made me think to share this: I am starting to value a narrower ski again for all the non-deep powder days (I have an Armada JJ for that... somewhat comparable to your DPS). I went on that journey wanting to improve my carving technique, but found that the precision I get out of a true carving ski (not a wider ski that can also carve) is also great fun in softer snow, in the tree and in the bumps. I ended up adding a Stöckli Laser AX to my quiver, and absolutely love it. You could consider the AR which is 82mm underfoot. And there are many other skis in this category that don't cost as much (pro tip: don't demo the Stöckli or you buy).

For me that makes a pretty perfect quiver for resort skiing:
- Armada JJ (175cm; 115mm) for deep powder
- Bent Chetler 100 (164cm, 100mm) for soft snow when I want to ski playful lines and may encounter under a foot of powder or chop.
- Stöckli Laser AX (154cm, 78mm) for anything else including firm snow. A dream to (learn to) carve, in moguls and trees in varied soft/firm conditions. Despite the short length I have not found a speed limit.
- I also still own a Nordica Enforcer 94 (all mountain that is super stable and "can" carve), but I think the Stöckli will replace this ski for me...even they are apple and oranges in comparison.

I hope this is somewhat helpful and not more confusing!

Btw, I just booked a trip to Smithers and Skeena for next January. I am so excited. It's still a long way away, but I am excited to hear that there is at least one Ski Diva in Smithers.

 

[rivarunnamomma]

@lak​

@rivarunnamomma I second the Bent Chetler 100. I am 5'4 and ski the 164cm. It's a great playful soft snow ski. Great bump ski for its width (shorter length helps). The Bent Chetler has a top end speed limit, but I was surprised how fast I could go without feeling chatter or any instability (considering they don't have any metal in them).

I know you said you wanted something in the 95 mm underfoot area, but your "East Coast past experience" comment made me think to share this: I am starting to value a narrower ski again for all the non-deep powder days (I have an Armada JJ for that... somewhat comparable to your DPS). I went on that journey wanting to improve my carving technique, but found that the precision I get out of a true carving ski (not a wider ski that can also carve) is also great fun in softer snow, in the tree and in the bumps. I ended up adding a Stöckli Laser AX to my quiver, and absolutely love it. You could consider the AR which is 82mm underfoot. And there are many other skis in this category that don't cost as much (pro tip: don't demo the Stöckli or you buy).

For me that makes a pretty perfect quiver for resort skiing:
- Armada JJ (175cm; 115mm) for deep powder
- Bent Chetler 100 (164cm, 100mm) for soft snow when I want to ski playful lines and may encounter under a foot of powder or chop.
- Stöckli Laser AX (154cm, 78mm) for anything else including firm snow. A dream to (learn to) carve, in moguls and trees in varied soft/firm conditions. Despite the short length I have not found a speed limit.
- I also still own a Nordica Enforcer 94 (all mountain that is super stable and "can" carve), but I think the Stöckli will replace this ski for me...even they are apple and oranges in comparison.

I hope this is somewhat helpful and not more confusing!

Btw, I just booked a trip to Smithers and Skeena for next January. I am so excited. It's still a long way away, but I am excited to hear that there is at least one Ski Diva in Smithers.

Thanks so much for your reply and detailed info. I definitely liked the Bent Chetler ... and I am still considering something narrower, so great info. Even better .... you are coming to Smithers! January is generally pretty consistent powder so fingers crossed it dumps for you! Please get in touch closer to the date if you have any questions, or would like a tour of the local brew pubs upon arrival :-) I'd also be happy to show you around our (small but fun) hill.

​

 

[lakeviewpowder]

@lak​

Thanks so much for your reply and detailed info. I definitely liked the Bent Chetler ... and I am still considering something narrower, so great info. Even better .... you are coming to Smithers! January is generally pretty consistent powder so fingers crossed it dumps for you! Please get in touch closer to the date if you have any questions, or would like a tour of the local brew pubs upon arrival :-) I'd also be happy to show you around our (small but fun) hill.

​

That's awesome. Thanks so much. Definitely will do. Happy to be guided along brew pubs or for a mountain tour.

 

[VTborn]

@rivarunnamomma I second the Bent Chetler 100. I am 5'4 and ski the 164cm. It's a great playful soft snow ski. Great bump ski for its width (shorter length helps). The Bent Chetler has a top end speed limit, but I was surprised how fast I could go without feeling chatter or any instability (considering they don't have any metal in them).

I know you said you wanted something in the 95 mm underfoot area, but your "East Coast past experience" comment made me think to share this: I am starting to value a narrower ski again for all the non-deep powder days (I have an Armada JJ for that... somewhat comparable to your DPS). I went on that journey wanting to improve my carving technique, but found that the precision I get out of a true carving ski (not a wider ski that can also carve) is also great fun in softer snow, in the tree and in the bumps. I ended up adding a Stöckli Laser AX to my quiver, and absolutely love it. You could consider the AR which is 82mm underfoot. And there are many other skis in this category that don't cost as much (pro tip: don't demo the Stöckli or you buy).

For me that makes a pretty perfect quiver for resort skiing:
- Armada JJ (175cm; 115mm) for deep powder
- Bent Chetler 100 (164cm, 100mm) for soft snow when I want to ski playful lines and may encounter under a foot of powder or chop.
- Stöckli Laser AX (154cm, 78mm) for anything else including firm snow. A dream to (learn to) carve, in moguls and trees in varied soft/firm conditions. Despite the short length I have not found a speed limit.
- I also still own a Nordica Enforcer 94 (all mountain that is super stable and "can" carve), but I think the Stöckli will replace this ski for me...even they are apple and oranges in comparison.

I hope this is somewhat helpful and not more confusing!

Btw, I just booked a trip to Smithers and Skeena for next January. I am so excited. It's still a long way away, but I am excited to hear that there is at least one Ski Diva in Smithers.

@lakeviewpowder Do you have any input about bindings on the Laser AX? I just bought a pair and am trying to decide between demo/regular bindings and whether I should consider mounting them a little forward. I’ve almost exclusively skied on women’s skis where I assume this is the norm.

 

[lakeviewpowder]

@rivarunnamomma Congratulations! You are going to love them! I have been continuously blown away by that ski and it has left me with a big grin on my face even in marginal snow conditions (e.g., last week I skied both dust on crust and spring slush bumps at Kirkwood).

I bought a (brand new) demo ski which was mounted with an Atomic Warden MNC 11 Demo binding. I didn't check on the mounting point, but have no gripes with the binding itself or the feel of the ski. Mine is relatively short (154cm), but so far I am happy with that length (no chatter, great in bumps). I mostly ski mens/unisex skis and have never mounted explicitly forward, but then I may just not know any better.

 

[Jilly]

@lakeviewpowder Do you have any input about bindings on the Laser AX? I just bought a pair and am trying to decide between demo/regular bindings and whether I should consider mounting them a little forward. I’ve almost exclusively skied on women’s skis where I assume this is the norm.

Generally, demo bindings are heavier than regular bindings. Also check your DIN settings. You want to be in the middle of the range.

As for mounting forward.....I ski the Rossi Hero's and they are mounted normal. But I've usually skied unisex so probably wouldn't notice the difference.

 

[chasinghorizons]

@rivarunnamomma pretty spot-on: https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2022-2023-faction-dancer-2

 

[chasinghorizons]

I have just returned from five days of demo'ing skis in Whistler, based on recommendations from many Ski Divas, and thought I'd share my impressions. The bottom line is: I'm SO CONFUSED!

To recap, here's what I'm looking for, from my original post:


Stats: 57 year old, advanced, directional, finesse skier, allergic to slarving and air.

Part of my problem was that Whistler has not received much new snow in the past couple of weeks. Freeze/thaw cycles have left ice balls in the alpine; refrozen crud; scraped bumps; and suicidal tree skiing. As a result, I ended up on a lot of super firm groomers and the occasional patch of bumps where the sun had softened things up -- not in any way representative of the soft conditions I usually find at home in Smithers (10 hours north). I had to do a lot of "imagining" what the ski might be like in (my) "normal" conditions.

I demo'd six different skis, and wished I had time for six more. The fine folks at Evo listened to what I wanted, viewed my "short list", and picked the order of the first four skis as follows:

Blizzard Sheeva 9 (165) - Pros: Easy to get along with, intuitive, reliable ski. No surprises. Cons: This was the first ski I tried and I didn't like how heavy it was compared to the really light touring skis I'm used to. So I had an instant bias against them. They also "ski short" and seemed to prefer slarving to carving so second strike against them. I found it difficult to ski a precise turn on firm snow. Rather, they liked a smeared turn, so I didn't get the energy I wanted coming out of the turn. In the bumps, I found them quick enough, but kinda' board-like, so again, it didn't have the rebound I wanted. Overall impression: Meh. OK on everything - but nothing was great.

Line Pandora 104 (165) - Pros: Quite light so felt really "zippy"! (Instant positive impression.) Easy to initiate a carved turn (another plus). Stiffer tail which made holding/finishing a turn a joy after so many years on powder skis with early rise and tapered tips/tails. Held an edge on firm snow really well. Cons: Lots of chatter on harder snowpack at medium+ speeds (probably much less noticeable on softer snow). I know this is a natural consequence of the type of ski I'm looking for but hoped I could find something that was equally poppy and carvy but a bit damper. I also suspected the very light tips would get deflected easily in cut up snow but I had no chance to test them in these conditions. Overall impression: I really liked this ski, perhaps because it was so different than what I've been on for 10+ years, but I was worried that it wouldn't be stable enough at speed or in the cut up conditions that I'd use them. Next ....

Black Crows Camox (170) - I have to admit I am rather star struck by the Black Crows brand given its Chamonix/niche origins so would love to find something in their lineup that works for me. Pros: Held an edge like a razor on firm snow. Stayed really stable at higher speeds. Able to carve a nice turn. Cons: Heavy compared to the Pandora and skis I'm used to (that negative bias again). My legs felt pretty done after a half day on them, but perhaps it was it was because I was unused to skiing on hard pack?. Shovels were very different than the Sheeva and Pandora, and took more input to initiate turns but once it was in the turn, it held and finished a carve nicely. I got lots of rebound on both groomers and in bumps but it took a lot of driving. Overall impression: A great amount of pop, power, and stability but I felt they required too much work to get what I wanted out of them. Perhaps a shorter length (or younger legs?) would have been better?

Rossignol Escaper (similar to Stargazer) (165) - I have to admit a bias against Rossignol because everyone skied the Soul 7s but I was open to trying them. Women's version of Escaper (Stargazer) wasn't available in my size, so took out the men's version which I was told is very similar if not identical. Pros: Easy ski to get along with right from the start. Easy to initiate a turn, held an edge ok, didn't get squirrelly at moderate speed. Cons: Again, seemed to prefer a slarve more than a carve - took some work to hold a carved turn on a groomer. Again, found it was too damp to generate much rebound on groomers or in bumps. The harder I drove the ski, the more it felt like I was overpowering the tips and the skis would dive sideways. Then I thought perhaps it wasn't the ski that was "jumpy" - perhaps it was because my light Scarpa Gea AT boots lack the more progressive flex of an alpine boot and my attempts to drive the ski were not being transferred smoothly to the ski. This is when the confusion really started to set in! I thought perhaps I should try a longer length but only had one day left, so wanted to try a few more skis instead. Overall impression: Ok but not great ... but not sure why.

There were several other skis I really wanted to try (but weren't available in my size) including the Santa Ana 94 or 104 and the Fischer Ranger 93 or 104 (they're pink) and I was scared of the Faction Dictator 2.0 (even though they're pink) so I tried a couple of skis recommended by the Evo folks:

Atomic Bent Chetler 100 (165) - I've always been scared of this ski because of the reputation of its wider cousin (BC 120) but Evo assured me it was a very different beast ... so I took a flyer and turns out, it was a lot of fun. (I instantly regretted not trying the Dictator.) Pros: Super easy to initiate turns, light weight especially in the front end due to tapered tips, holds an edge really well, more stable at higher speed than the other skis I tried (with the exception of the Camox). Cons: Suspect they were too short - felt I overpowered the shovels in bumps and sometimes on firm groomers. And given how light they were, I was worried they'd really get bucked around in cut up snow. Overall impression: Think they had potential - wished I had tried them in a longer length.

K2 Mindbender 106 (175) - Somehow ended up on a 175 instead of 165/170 so I initially thought the ski was stiffer than the others I'd tried, but it didn't turn out to be the case. Pros: Nice rebound out of turns on groomers. Stable at speed (could have been the extra cms?). Cons: Extra length made them a bit more of a challenge for me in hard bumps. Heavier than I like (my bias again). Wish I had tried them in a shorter length.

When I read thru my assembled impressions above, I feel completely schizophrenic. Maybe I didn't ski anything for enough time (1/2 day each), or the conditions were just not similar enough to where I'm going to use these skis, or maybe I'm just really indecisive; or maybe it's me that lacks pop and energy -- not the ski.

Problem is: I'm back home now, without any demos available in the sizes I need, so I'm not sure about my next step. Based on everything I've learned about weight, tip/camber/tail profiles, flex pattern and materials -- and what I (think) I like -- I am almost tempted to buy something I haven't tried and hope for the best. At the moment, that would probably be the Fischer Ranger 94 or 102 FR or perhaps the Santa Ana 93.

Based on my cryptic comments, and obvious confusion, I'd appreciate any suggestions that Divas might have. Feel free to include contact info for your favourite therapist :-)

Thanks!

Re-read your demo comments again. Based on your bias against a heavy ski, I would cross the MSP CC off your list. I have the 171 in my garage, and it is definitely heavier than the Sheeva 9 and the Stargazer. It's going to have a much more damp and stable feel compared to your other choices, more than I'm guessing you'll want if you liked the Bent Chetler. I can't speak on the Ranger but I do think the Dictator/Dancer sounds exactly like what you're looking for - energetic, precise, poppy and light swing weight with a great amount of stability and dampness for it's weight.

But seriously, if you do get it, mount progressive! Somewhere between +1.5 to +3 cm.

 

[rivarunnamomma]

That's awesome. Thanks so much. Definitely will do. Happy to be guided along brew pubs or for a mountain tour.

I thought I'd touch base to let you know we just had our first dusting of snow on local peaks. Winter is coming! I hope it's a good one! Keep me in the loop on your plans :-)

 

[Jilly]

Crap - I'm heading out to Kelowna for a conference the end of the month. Guess it not going to be short sleeve weather. Better plan on some "down".

 

[rivarunnamomma]

Crap - I'm heading out to Kelowna for a conference the end of the month. Guess it not going to be short sleeve weather. Better plan on some "down".

@Jilly Kelowna is a 12 hour drive from where I live in Smithers in northwestern BC … and a completely different story in terms of weather! Here it’s going to be 12 degrees C and rainy today (more snow up high!) and in Kelowna it’s going to be 27 degrees C and pure sun. So leave the down at home! You’ll be sipping on patios in a t-shirt for sure!