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Please don’t teach your own kids to ski!

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@floatingyardsale - It appears that you've been spending hours on the magic carpet and do not scream at your kids after bringing them on terrain they can't ski. I imagine you won't get many arguments here. Surely you've seen the tiny kids on leashes on ridiculously steep trails? Or in a wedge on a steep black? The red-faced dads bellowing at their kids? I think these examples prompted our responses, and certainly mine.

I had the experience as an older adult of being terrified/paralyzed (while speeding downhill) on a trail I was told was easy (despite its blue square), having someone (who shall remain nameless) scream at me, "Finish your turns!" (Major yard sale followed.) I'm glad it didn't happen to me as a young child, or I might have quit right there. Wow, my heart rate goes up just remembering.

Maybe the name of this thread over-generalizes a bit.

Oh, to be clear, I take myself to be disagreeing only mildly - and I'm glad to have this discussion, because I don't want my kids to be in the way of someone else's good day, and it's hard to tell what looks like a problem from the outside. And we've had our share of dumb moves (let me tell you about the time the 4yo did not stop when her brother wiped out...)

But definitely on team no leashes on the blue runs. I've used them on the bunny hill and greens but man, those things just seem like they're asking for tangled trouble.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Kids learning to ski with parents who are good skiers is one thing. Parents who are themselves barely intermediates but are intent on teaching their kids to ski to avoid paying for ski school are a completely different situation.

It's possible that the bigger problem is the person who knows how to ski, but has no idea how to teach. I wasn't a kid, but was "taught" by my boyfriend, an amazing skier but dreadful teacher. I think that a deep understanding of the developmental process (of growing up and of skiing) is necessary. Putting a kid (or adult) on terrain they can't ski or hollering at someone to change what they have no idea how to change is not teaching.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
But definitely on team no leashes on the blue runs. I've used them on the bunny hill and greens but man, those things just seem like they're asking for tangled trouble.

I've heard people say that leashes ingrain a bad habit (leaning back) and it's hard to get them to get forward. Of course, it's hard to imagine the first-time little skier getting forward for quite awhile, anyway. Everybody has an opinion!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I will say that with my friend group, that includes one former instructor and one extremely talented skier, we often have success most by teaching each other's children, because sometimes Mom is clearly not cool enough to teach.
That sounds like a perfect scenario!

I only have the one daughter. Kept my life simpler by not starting her on skis until she was old enough for ski school, which was age 4 in the southeast. Since my DH is a total non-skier for assorted reasons, I wanted to know if she liked skiing. Since our home hill is small, it was easy to watch from enough distance to see what she was doing during lessons in the 9:30-2:00 ski school day. Was MUCH easier to load the lift with her after the instructor taught her what to do. She was perfectly fine with the idea. I was the one who was nervous that first ski trip.

Her never-ever group was four girls, ages 4-7. It was the 7yo who didn't last all day. The three 4-5 year olds were all set to ride the long beginner lift after lunch. In that case, the 7yo's parents were skiers. Her older brother was in snowboard school. I happened to see the parents with the girl in the early afternoon. No one was happy. It was pretty clear that her father was not ever going to be a good teacher for her.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
So, it's possible I'm better than I think I am, but I think "intermediate" is a good description of me? But I think part of my success with the kids is being very conscious of my own limits to supervise (and I'm sure, as the meme says, I've been the a-hole in someone else's story) - I wouldn't take both kids, for example, until I was certain we could manage the lifts together with no drama. And the 7yo is pushing to ski blacks but that's not happening until he gets lessons and can get on edge - I can ski blacks but not while supervising.

I'm fine with paying for ski school next year minus COVID and also because I want my Saturdays back for my own skiing!
My comment about "barely intermediate" was not meant to be about you. I could tell from your comments that you know far more than the parents I see at my home hill. I'm talking about people who aren't even sure how to get into their bindings after a fall, but think that going to the top of the harder blue is the best way to get started for the day. There is a mid-mountain lift that has a mid-station to leads to the easiest blue. The upper section is significantly steeper, especially at the very top. In fact, it's as steep as the black trails.

I was a confident intermediate with old style technique when my daughter started skiing, which didn't really include good parallel turns. With the help of ski school at our home hill and spring break trips to Alta, she was far better than I was by age 11, if not age 10. :smile:
 

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've heard people say that leashes ingrain a bad habit (leaning back) and it's hard to get them to get forward. Of course, it's hard to imagine the first-time little skier getting forward for quite awhile, anyway. Everybody has an opinion!

They were great for convincing a nervous kid that she could "make it down the big hill" [i.e the green hill] but I think I'm too much of a klutz to manage them. Continually worried about tripping over slack leashes or pulling on her if she got ahead. Fortunately she wanted them only on that run - big girls don't use leashes, you see.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I've heard people say that leashes ingrain a bad habit (leaning back) and it's hard to get them to get forward. Of course, it's hard to imagine the first-time little skier getting forward for quite awhile, anyway. Everybody has an opinion!
As with all training aids, it depends on how it's used. The leashes should never be tight. I've seen a few parents use them appropriately on the long, very mellow, green at Massanutten. When a little one, usually under 4, is just starting out, you can't ski in front of them. But if you are behind them and they start going straight too fast, it can be hard to get them to slow down without falling.

One way instructors get little kids to be more forward is to tell them to put them hands on their knees. Of course, that usually only lasts for about a minute or two if a parent tries to tell their kid exactly the same thing.

PSIA certification after Level 1 requires a Child Specialist Certification too. Teaching kids 10 and under who are never-evers or beginners is clearly different than teaching adults.
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
I generically named the thread b/c I was so angry at the parents in my original story. I'm sure there are instructors and even non-instructor parents who are great at teaching their kids. :smile: I have coached my kids and taught them stuff, so I know that we CAN teach as parents.

100% the train wrecks we see on the hill are more memorable than the perfectly functional situations.

I've seen ADORABLE situations with adults teaching their kids.
I've also 100% been the a-hole parent (not on the ski hill, on a ropes course) ...

My point is more that when it comes to an activity that can easily swing from fun to dangerous, it's important to have a workable and child centered plan. Yelling "TURN" at your child as she speeds away from you is probably NOT that plan. And if you don't know how to design a child-centered learning plan, you shouldn't be teaching your kids. ;)
 

MsWax

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So much of this is situation/personality dependent. I taught my youngest to ski because we had a season pass and nearby rental at a mountain when he was 3 and lessons didn't start until 4. He and I spent a month on the bunny slope before moving up the hill...and the first venture didn't go well. He panicked and refused to ski down. I had to carry him the whole way, and when we got to the bottom and my arms felt like they were going to fall off (he was/is a big boy), he looked up at me and said, "I went up the big mountain!"

After another few days on the bunny slope, we tried again and it went much better! By the end of the season he was skiing the whole mountain, even the glades. Yes, he was still wedging, but he was turning, in control, and having fun skiing with his older brothers.

If I were to try to teach him now, it wouldn't work. His receptiveness at 7 is MUCH different than it was at 3...the relationship is different and I would no longer be an effective teacher for him.
 

Cyclone6

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I saw a rather unfortunate parent-coaching incident today.

At one point, I stopped to take a breather on the side of the trail, near a junction to one of the more tough black runs on the mountain. This dad and son skied up, and the dad said, "We're going this way bud!" and pointed to the black run. As the kid skied past me, I heard him groan. He didn't want to do it! He was in a wedge anyway. How in the hell anyone skis this run in a wedge is beyond me. Then, the kid was at the top, not wanting to go down. This jerk then had the nerve to say to him "Just go, there's someone waiting for us!" while pointing at me! Based on where I was, it was not obvious where I was headed next. He used me as an excuse to yell! Poor kid.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
I saw a rather unfortunate parent-coaching incident today.

Ouch! Do these dads really think their kids are learning this way? Given what I know about brain chemistry and fear (not much, but some), there's no room in that brain for technique, love of skiing, or (snort) enjoying time with Dad. Too much scared, not enough skill. Pay for ski school, dammit!
 

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Poor little guy. Wedging works really well for littles but they have so much more fun working on turns and skiing within their abilities.

Dad could mosey through trees or find powder patches on the side if the kid needs a challenge. It's a great way to introduce kids to steeps without having to send them down a hole run.
 

LucieCZ

Certified Ski Diva
Hi! To leash or not seems controversial. After lots of research, we leashed our 2yo for 1.5 seasons and now he's off leash and skied his 1st black diamond last season. He's 4 now and looking forward to this season.

In my opinion, it really depends on a lot of factors. I don't think just leashing without also teaching kids is effective. Definitely not to take kids on runs they shouldn't be on.

But I think the right leash in the right hands is a great way to introduce them to the sensation of sliding and comfortable with speed and lack of control.

We didn't want to subject our 2yo's developing joints to the forces of wedging until he was older. The leash let him start learning without having to wedge.

A couple added benefits of the leash are he was essentially parallel skiing without picking up all the bad habits learned from wedging first. When he was wedging and off leash the next season he already knew to parallel ski when he wasn't trying to stop. The other benefit was that you can actually steer them a little with the leash. This helps introduce them to the feeling of turning. Our 2yo actually started turning himself before he got off the leash and before he learned to wedge.

The next season, at 3yo, we taught him how to wedge and after several runs took him off the leash. He only improved from there and has been skiing on his own since.

But, in addition to the leash, we also did a lot of teaching & coaching on the bunny hill and even at home. Things like putting on his gear at home and sliding around made it less foreign to him on the mountain. Like walking around the bunny hill and ski area in his gear before ever skiing (used toddler gear is really cheap online).

Finally, we did a lot of research on the leash. We got a retractable one and highly recommend it: https://www.lilrippergripper.com/

I've seen too many parents struggling with the leash. This one let's you be close or far instantly without extra leash to reel in. It also locks so you can just quickly lift them, in addition to the handle on the harness that is so convenient. Finally, you can also use the leash to pull them across flats, a huge bonus when heading to the lift lines.

So, I know the topic was whether to teach your own kid to ski. We did it and had fun and success, but we also live in Utah only 20 min from the ski area. If you're here to consider whether to do it, our story is to help you equip yourself well if you decide to do it.

Teaching your own kids to ski is an extension of the relationship and parenting style you already have with your kid. It's definitely not for most. I think if you try and aren't having fun, put them in lessons and go have fun!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
:bump:
Some few thoughtful posts from parents and instructors with experience teaching kids (under 10), as well as examples of situations that weren't good learning experiences for a stranger's child.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
I was at a Christmas party many, many years ago. My son was about 5 at the time. I was talking to a guy at the party about methods for teaching little ones to ski. I was curious about the differences between Europe and the US. He said he just skis all over the mountain with his kid between his legs. In shock, I responded, “I hope you are a good enough skier for that.” He said that he usually got by ok. Shortly thereafter, my cousin told me that the guy was a member of the Austrian ski team. I was mortified and grateful he didn’t just flame me. Some parents can teach their kids just fine! I didn’t ski with mine between my legs, or use a leash, but I did use an edgie-wedgie. He stopped lessons at 5 and he’s a fantastic skier. He learned by observing others and by feel.

I taught middle school theater for 30 years and I saw many “professional” classroom teachers who were just awful! A good teacher is a good communicator and can demonstrate what they are teaching. It doesn’t always require a professional.
 

LucieCZ

Certified Ski Diva
Hi! To leash or not seems controversial. After lots of research, we leashed our 2yo for 1.5 seasons and now he's off leash and skied his 1st black diamond last season. He's 4 now and looking forward to this season.

In my opinion, it really depends on a lot of factors. I don't think just leashing without also teaching kids is effective. Definitely not to take kids on runs they shouldn't be on.

But I think the right leash in the right hands is a great way to introduce them to the sensation of sliding and comfortable with speed and lack of control.

We didn't want to subject our 2yo's developing joints to the forces of wedging until he was older. The leash let him start learning without having to wedge.

A couple added benefits of the leash are he was essentially parallel skiing without picking up all the bad habits learned from wedging first. When he was wedging and off leash the next season he already knew to parallel ski when he wasn't trying to stop. The other benefit was that you can actually steer them a little with the leash. This helps introduce them to the feeling of turning. Our 2yo actually started turning himself before he got off the leash and before he learned to wedge.

The next season, at 3yo, we taught him how to wedge and after several runs took him off the leash. He only improved from there and has been skiing on his own since.

But, in addition to the leash, we also did a lot of teaching & coaching on the bunny hill and even at home. Things like putting on his gear at home and sliding around made it less foreign to him on the mountain. Like walking around the bunny hill and ski area in his gear before ever skiing (used toddler gear is really cheap online).

Finally, we did a lot of research on the leash. We got a retractable one and highly recommend it: https://www.lilrippergripper.com/

I've seen too many parents struggling with the leash. This one let's you be close or far instantly without extra leash to reel in. It also locks so you can just quickly lift them, in addition to the handle on the harness that is so convenient. Finally, you can also use the leash to pull them across flats, a huge bonus when heading to the lift lines.

So, I know the topic was whether to teach your own kid to ski. We did it and had fun and success, but we also live in Utah only 20 min from the ski area. If you're here to consider whether to do it, our story is to help you equip yourself well if you decide to do it.

Teaching your own kids to ski is an extension of the relationship and parenting style you already have with your kid. It's definitely not for most. I think if you try and aren't having fun, put them in lessons and go have fun!
just started our 2yo on leash:


leashed at 2yo, off for a season, now starting 3rd season:

 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
They’re so cute!!!
Littles who are being taught well are absolutely the CUTEST thing to see.
(And obviously you aren’t skiing several feet behind them, yelling “just turn!!!”)
:rotf:
 

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
More thoughts on this today, inspired by @LucieCZ and my own day of skiing with a) the kids where we were joined by b) a friend who has elegant parallel turns but no desire for speed. So much of the challenge of teaching small kids is really about letting them set the pace. It's easy for me -- and I presume LucieCZ -- with the mountain being half an hour away to ski only what the kids want because I can get up on my own.

A lot of the parents who get themselves into trouble, I think, are trying to combine their vacation time with their teaching time. So they're pushing the kids so they can explore, and part of teaching kids is being willing to start off a powder day on a green groomed run.

(Or leaving the kids home that day. Potato, potahtoe.)
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
A lot of the parents who get themselves into trouble, I think, are trying to combine their vacation time with their teaching time. So they're pushing the kids so they can explore, and part of teaching kids is being willing to start off a powder day on a green groomed run.
At my home hill (not in ski country, 2 hours from a big city), the added issue is that the parents are barely advanced beginners themselves. Meaning they have trouble loading and unloading the chair, even without a kid. Seeing someone like that with a little one between their legs during a busy holiday weekend . . . <sigh>
 

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