overtraining

[liquidfeet]

I'm wondering if I'm overtraining. Here's what I'm doing, and why I'm wondering if I'm doing something I shouldn't do.

I am riding my mountain bike every day, probably 6 out of every 7 days. I ride for 2 to 2 1/2 hours every time I ride, maybe 30 minutes of that on the road to get to the woods and back. The rest of the time I spend in the woods, mostly on single tracks. I love the narrow trails with twisty-turns and ups and downs and logs across the trail and roots and rocks and stream crossings and scary technical stuff that requires granny gear. I have to get off and walk up and down the hills sometimes, but mostly I can I just haul myself up the hills by quad strength. This is strenuous for me, whether I'm walking the bike or riding it. I'm getting better at negotiating the obstacles. Clearly my balance on the bike is improving. But I'd like to think that I'm getting stronger, but here's the catch.

My quads burn, burn, burn. They burn when I leave the house, they burn after the ride, they burn when I walk up the stairs in my house. They burn when I drive my car, when I sit for lunch, and when I go to bed. The only time they don't burn is after I get warmed up on my ride and I'm torquing along the trails. I take a lot of Ibuprophen.

I want to get stronger, not just better at balance on this bike. But am I overdoing it? How do I know if I need to take more days off?

And if I need to take days off, what do I do instead of riding the darn bike? I LOVE LOVE LOVE to ride this bike. It's so sad to think that I'm going to need to take more days off, but I fear that's the cold hard truth. I'm old, by the way, so my body takes longer (so they say) to recover from a workout.

Any thoughts out there on overtraining?

 

[Pequenita]

I'm not a mountain biker, but I've been around endurance sports for a while. It sounds like "overtraining," or, because you're not really training for anything (are you?), overuse. An easy way to figure out if it's overtraining is whether you're actually getting slower or seeing no improvement. I'm a big fan of working muscles hard so that the fibers can regenerate stronger, but it sounds like you're not letting them rest so they can regenerate. If you're reluctant to take more than one day off, I would recommend changing your routine; ie, don't go out for 2 to 2 1/2 hours every time you go out. Also, don't go out with the same intensity every time. Toss in shorter, but more intense, distances, and mix up the route/terrain if you can. If there is a way to focus on a particular skill on a shorter workout, do that 1 day a week -- sort of like bike drills. To build yourself up so that one day you can do an entire route without getting off the bike on the hills, perhaps do an easy warmup ride out to a hilly portion and just work that hill section (or shorter portion of it) over and over again either for a set time or number of hills, and then do a cooldown ride home without doing the entire loop.

Just some thoughts. It seems like you may just need to add some variety into the rides.

 

[altagirl]

Look into the ibuprofen. I've seen a lot of recent studies that show that it inhibits muscle tissue repair and can damage your tendon stregth, in addition to the damage to your stomach lining.

I no longer take it unless I'm in extreme pain from an injury. Never for just muscle soreness. Obviously some people do - I just think it's actually counterproductive.

Instead, try using a supplement like SportLegs. That seems to help. I almost never get muscle soreness from riding, just when I do something unusual (a new activity or something.)

Additionally, I'd suggest making sure your bike is set up correctly. Have you had it professionally fitted? If your saddle is too low, too far forward or to the rear, cleats aren't aligned properly, etc - you could be getting sore from that, rather than just the exertion from riding. You really can't get it set up correctly on your own, and trial and error can take a lifetime to figure out. I've paid $75 before at my physical therapy office where they have two professionals trained in bike fitting to get things dialed in. And it's VERY worth it.

Also, you might want to add some yoga into your routine to get stretched out adequately afterwards.

Hope that helps! And glad to hear you're loving riding so much!!!

 

[liquidfeet]

OK, I admit it, I don't stretch. And my bike is too short. It's not fit to me at all; I bought it second hand, but it has to do for right now.

Stretching is a great idea. I'll try that. And I'll look up the SportLegs stuff. Thanks for the info on ibuprophen. Must admit, it does take away the pain.

 

[altagirl]

OK, I admit it, I don't stretch. And my bike is too short. It's not fit to me at all; I bought it second hand, but it has to do for right now.

Stretching is a great idea. I'll try that. And I'll look up the SportLegs stuff. Thanks for the info on ibuprophen. Must admit, it does take away the pain.

Even if your bike frame isn't perfect - it can be adjusted for you. You may just need to raise up the seatpost or get a setback seatpost (it has a bend in it to compensate if you should have a longer top tube.) You could swap out your stem for something longer too.

Go see a bike shop and have them see if they think you need a different stem or seatpost. Some shops MIGHT even trade them out for you. If you approach it with a "I'm saving up to buy a new bike, but in the meantime can you help me out and maybe work some sort of trade-in to get parts to make this fit... it's at least worth asking.

And hey - at least the bike is too small, not too big. Too small is possible to modify and make it fit bigger. Too big and you just need a new bike! :D

 

[liquidfeet]

Hmmmm...

The reason I say this bike is too short for me is that I scoot my bum back until it's almost falling off the seat, and then I'm comfortable. So I do scoot around a lot on the seat. I asked the guy at the little bike shop where I bought it if I could buy a banana seat or something else to get the seat back farther and he said no.

So what you're telling me is that a seat post exists that bends back, which places the seat farther back over the cogs. That's good; I have visions of wheelies and bunny hops being easier should I get one of those. And maybe you're also saying I could get a different stem (isn't that what the handle bars are attached to?) that would place the bars farther forward, over the front hub?

Maybe I need to go to a different bike shop. I like this little shop and the quiet guy that runs it, but I can go to the two-story mega bike store with all the body armor and thousands of bikes and so on if I need to get something that the little shop can't offer.

Right now I have a Terry saddle with springs below it. I like this thing. I'm especially fond of springs under the seat. I suspect if a backwards-bent seatpost exists, I'm going to have to forfeit the springs. Right?

Also, I just weighed this bike. It's 30 lbs. I may not want to throw any money at it. I have another bike that someone loaned me that weighs 25 lbs, and she might be willing to sell it to me. It's much better built, has a Specialized fork and so on, but it has the exact same dimensions as the bike I'm on. Also it is plagued with chain suck and phantom shifting, which I don't know how difficult or involved it is to fix.

This advice is great. Any further thoughts are welcome!

 

[altagirl]

Okay -

1. Setback seatposts definitely do exist.

This is the style I was thinking of:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Thomson-27-2-x...ryZ58101QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

But there is also this type:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Easton-EC70-Se...yZ106952QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

One of my friends has one, and she has a long torso and short legs and therefore needs a setback seatpost to be comfortable. Of course the other option would be to have a custom designed frame built to match your body, but that's probably WAY out of the price range.

2. Provided that your saddle still has the normal two rails for mounting on a standard seatpost, I don't see why it would be an issue, springs or not. Though I'm not sure I'm familiar with what saddle you're talking about. If it has it's own funky seatpost, maybe not.

DO make sure you know the diameter of your seatpost before buying one to replace it though. Standard is 27.2, but there are many other (larger) sizes out there too, so don't buy the wrong one.

3. Yes, the stem is what holds your handlebars on to the rest of the bike. And those come in different lengths and rises to get your fit just right. You don't want it to be too long, but a little adjustment might help.

As far as the new bike goes, it probably just needs some adjustment to fix the shifting problems. Which can be as easy as turning the barrel adjusters and VOILA! you're done, or it could be a bent derailleur hanger or the whole derailleur that needs replacing. Which depends on the model you're using, but could be $40 or so for the part. You have to stick with on that works with your shifters (unless you want to replace those too), but I doubt you have a really expensive one on there (XO or XTR could run you $150 or so, but I doubt that's what you have as they're very lightweight and expensive...) I'd say it's probably at least an 80% chance it can be fixed easily with just an adjustment though.

Here's a page on derailleur adjustment:
https://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html

If all else fails, and it's shifting badly already... there's a barrel adjuster on the shifter and one on the derailleur. It's a little knob right where the cable comes out of the shifter. Turn it one way, a click at a time and see if it gets any better. If not, try turning the other way. Obviously it's easier if you do it all in the right order and understand the mechanics of what you're doing (see the link), but sometimes the cables stretch a bit and a turn of the barrel adjuster is all you need.

And this guy wrote practically a dissertation on chainsuck:

https://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

Basically, if you have chainsuck, you might need to replace a worn out chainring (particularly if she replaced the chain without replacing the chainrings.) Also check for bent teeth in the drivetrain. And obviously make sure it's not just filthy dirty, which could be causing it all on its own.


Hope that helps!

 

[abc]

We're all over the place. Training and bike setup. It's obvious your bike doesn't fit, even the "new" one still won't fit! And your training regement has "over-training" written all over it. How long have you been doing this?

I'd say you need to find someone to ride with!

What would that do for you?

One: You're not quite so likely to "over-train".
Two: You can share experience in bike maintenance.
Three: You can share experience in proper training and nutricient.

But if you can't find someone to train with. Sign up at forum.mtbr.com and start making virtual riding buddies.

I'm not saying this is not the place. But I just think you get a lot better responds there. And maybe you'll get lucky to bump into some one in your area to ride with.

Forgive me to say this, you need a lot more help than the small group of us can offer, preferably someone local who can see how you ride.

 

[SnowHot]

I am a huge water drinker so I tend to lose a lot of electrolytes and minerals. I use a mineral replacement, similar to Sport Legs to alleviate the burn with multiple days of repetitive activity.

If I can mix things up and bike on alternate days, the burn is not an issue, but sometimes the urge hits and I ride several days in a row:D .

 

[abc]

Burn is good. You'll get stronger when the burn is gone.

But if the burn remains for days and days IN THE SAME AREA, something is wrong. Because you're obviously NOT getting stronger. So what's the point of the "training"?

DIY kind of "training" work even less well than DIY bike fitting. Most people over-train to some degree. That's why coaches are such a big help for the tri-geeks: an objective evaluation. Most athlets found improvement after using a coach. But for those who can't find one or can't afford one, read up on the on-line training manual to get some grip on how an efficient training is accomplished.

 

[liquidfeet]

We're all over the place. Training and bike setup. It's obvious your bike doesn't fit, even the "new" one still won't fit! And your training regement has "over-training" written all over it. How long have you been doing this?

I'd say you need to find someone to ride with!

What would that do for you?

One: You're not quite so likely to "over-train".
Two: You can share experience in bike maintenance.
Three: You can share experience in proper training and nutricient.

But if you can't find someone to train with. Sign up at forum.mtbr.com and start making virtual riding buddies.

I'm not saying this is not the place. But I just think you get a lot better responds there. And maybe you'll get lucky to bump into some one in your area to ride with.

Forgive me to say this, you need a lot more help than the small group of us can offer, preferably someone local who can see how you ride.

I made this exact same post at mtbr's forum!

 

[liquidfeet]

Burn is good. You'll get stronger when the burn is gone.

But if the burn remains for days and days IN THE SAME AREA, something is wrong. Because you're obviously NOT getting stronger. So what's the point of the "training"?

DIY kind of "training" work even less well than DIY bike fitting. Most people over-train to some degree. That's why coaches are such a big help for the tri-geeks: an objective evaluation. Most athlets found improvement after using a coach. But for those who can't find one or can't afford one, read up on the on-line training manual to get some grip on how an efficient training is accomplished.

I'm game. Do you have a link to a good online training manual of the sort you're talking about???

Thanks for the info. It's been difficult for me to find people to ride with around here. This is a new passion of mine, and to do it I just go out on my own. I've found that to be better than waiting around for company. I'm learning, the hard way, perhaps the best way really.

What I did today to get my fix was ride around in the driveway like a 6 year old kid practicing lifting the front wheel over obstacles (success). I also tried riding along a narraow 12 foot plank on the ground (couldn't), and slowing down to a near standstill without fallilng over (could). Then I went to a bike shop and tried a real bike out (Specialized)-- it was so much nicer than what I am now riding (a Walmart brand--DiamondBack!!!). Maybe one day I'll have one of those. By that time I'll be doing wheelies on my 30 lb clunker. So I'll fly over houses when I get better suspension and less poundage ... something to look forward to!!

Thanks again for all the encouragement and suggestions. It takes a village, whoops a forum, to bring up a new biker.... or skier.....

 

[abc]

I'm game. Do you have a link to a good online training manual of the sort you're talking about???

I'll have to ask (online) around about that myself.

Thanks for the info. It's been difficult for me to find people to ride with around here. This is a new passion of mine, and to do it I just go out on my own. I've found that to be better than waiting around for company. I'm learning, the hard way, perhaps the best way really.

That can't be right! There's a pretty active mtb group near Boston. I keep seeing pick up rides for that area. Actually, go down the page at mtbr.com to the "local" page. You might find something in the MA part.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you should "wait" for others to ride with. I AM suggesting you try to find some other people to ride with. You'll learn a lot more and learn faster by interacting with better riders. In the meantime, do continue to ride on your own. I've been there, riding alone. But the progress can't be compared when I finally found a group to ride with.

You're not too far from Pittsfield. Check this out: https://www.pedrosfest.com/2007/index.cfm It's coming up in 3 weeks. I recall seeing MANY riders coming from the greater boston area from 2 years ago!

BTW, I wouldn't call a DiamondBack a Walmart brand. But if it doesn't fit you, it doesn't matter.

 

[altagirl]

I'm not suggesting you ditch your "little guy" shop, but go check out all the bike shops in your area. Ask if they have riding groups because you're just getting started and looking for people to ride with. Also ask if they offer a basic maintenance class or if they know anywhere that does. You could also ask about bike fitting stuff. Somewhere is bound to have a setback seatpost. Explain your bike situation and see if they'll help you with bike fitting, swap one on there so you can ride it around the parking lot and see how it feels, etc.

I do agree you probably need some days off - and add in time to stretch too. I've found yoga to be excellent for that. As far as finding a trainer or coming up with a formal training plan - I don't know if I'd bother with that. Unless I missed something, you're not training for any particular event or anything, are you? Certainly, it would help you really get in the best shape and maximize what you are doing. But for most of us, it takes the fun out of it. "Today I have to do this, tomorrow I have to do that, etc." For me, even though I race, I do it all for fun. I have a job, I'm busy, sure I could have a trainer and force myself to go do long slow rides or sprint/hill intervals, but I ride because I want to go enjoy myself, not to go do more work. I know if I really wanted to build endurance, I'd need to do a lot of road riding. I HATE road riding. So I just go mountain bike and have fun, and I get better and faster every year. Certainly not as fast as I could be if I followed a strict diet and training regimen, but I just feel that would take all the fun out of it for me.

I do think it wouldn't hurt to read about training, definitely plan some recovery/stretch days so you're not getting the constant soreness, etc. And if you feel like following a training plan - good for you - go for it! But don't forget to have fun!

 

[liquidfeet]

Well, I'm taking as much of the advice here as I can. Today is my third day off the bike. This is really tough. But clearly I've overdone it, so I've got to slow down. Tomorrow I'm back!

I'll ride my friend's light (25 lbs) bike to see how I like trucking down rocky hills at speed on a lighter bike. Last time I did that on her bike it rebounded like a ping pong ball off every baby's head rock, and of course there are many. This time I'm much more experienced, so how I can get it to handle will tell me if I should be dissatisfied with my 30 lb frame that I'm riding on now, or not.

I've visited 5 bike shops (instead of riding) and found one that has bent seatposts in stock. I'm also awaiting a used Cannondale to be put back together to try it on for fit. I've looked at new bikes and ridden some of them around in parking lots and am narrowing down just what I want a bike to feel like. I've also narrowed down the manufacturers I'd look at if I were to win the lottery. Plus I'm waiting for a used fork to show up to see if that may be my best bet.

And I'm thinking, mind you just thinking, of stretching my quads after my ride tomorrow. So many people have suggested stretching. I don't really want to do it, but maybe it will help.
I used to be a road runner, and for years stretched everytime after my runs. Then I gave it up for years after that. Absolutely NO DIFFERENCE. So....

 

[altagirl]

At least you're thinking of stretching after riding, not before. Before is actually harmful.

Stretching afterwards might help, but I'd actually recommend doing it as a totally separate event. Go to a beginner yoga class. It's both thorough and relaxing. I swear, I go and I feel like I just got a massage. And it really helped me to fix some imbalances I've developed over the years - tight IT bands, etc. I had no idea that I was really flexible in some directions and really tight in others and it really helps to balance it out.

Okay, enough prodding. ;) But I swear, I don't know anyone who has tried a decent basic class and didn't like it.

 

[liquidfeet]

Go to a beginner yoga class. It's both thorough and relaxing. I swear, I go and I feel like I just got a massage. I don't know anyone who has tried a decent basic class and didn't like it.

I recently read a book, Eat, Pray, Love. In this wonderful memoir, the author (a woman, name forgotten by me) spends four months in an ashram in India doing yoga and chanting (the "Pray" part of the book). After reading it I really wanted to do yoga in a spiritual as well as physical way. So far I haven't followed up. Must admit, I've been too busy on the bike. The book is a guaranteed page-turner, if you like New Yorker style writing memoires. I recommend it highly.

 

[altagirl]

I recently read a book, Eat, Pray, Love. In this wonderful memoir, the author (a woman, name forgotten by me) spends four months in an ashram in India doing yoga and chanting (the "Pray" part of the book). After reading it I really wanted to do yoga in a spiritual as well as physical way. So far I haven't followed up. Must admit, I've been too busy on the bike. The book is a guaranteed page-turner, if you like New Yorker style writing memoires. I recommend it highly.

I'll have to check that out! Thanks!

 

[Pequenita]

altagirl - the book comes highly recommended to me, too, from several people, but I haven't read it yet. I'm glad to hear that liquidfeet has enjoyed it, though!