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Overcrowding at Epic and Ikon resorts

newboots

Angel Diva
Little Blandford Ski area i. Massachusetts was turning people away, I heard. That’s a mom and pop outfit if ever there was one.

So glad to hear that Berkshire East was still managrable as ever! I love that place.
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm lucky to have a small Mt to ski weekends, MLK Saturday and Sunday were busy for us, both lifts to the top running, parking lot very full, a couple of times actual lines! Today was back to our usual. Busy but not crowded. Today was cold, the surface was the most perfect packed powder ever, just like out West Rail road track snow. My Liberty V76w's were a blast.

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Like2Ski

Angel Diva
What was ALSO crazy was the traffic home. I missed the 7pm Bridgeport ferry but they let me on the 8pm. Idk if anyone regularly takes the Port Jefferson/Bridgeport ferry but I always find the staff very accommodating. Barely did over 20mph in all of MA! It took me 3.5 hours from B-East. Should take 2 hours and 15 minutes. Lesson learned!
 

Like2Ski

Angel Diva
The parking lot shuttle at Okemo on Saturday was simply awful! We stood outside in huge lines forever in the frigid cold waiting for old school busses to shuttle us to the lot. Traffic was at a standstill once you got on the bus. It really sucked. Okemo needs to step it up. The Moover at Mount Snow is vastly superior and a pleasure to use compared to the nightmare at Okemo.

Do you guys park at Jackson Gore? If not try it next time. They have shuttles but you can walk from the lot if one isn’t there because it’s really not that far.

The Moover is good. I appreciated it that time I accidentally skied into the terrain park after the lifts closed! :smile:
 

Tvan

Angel Diva
Mohawk was pretty empty this morning when we arrived at 7:45. Had the hill to ourselves until ski school spun up at 9:30. We were outta there by 11. It wasn’t horribly crowded and conditions were good.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
How are unaffiliated resorts in the NE doing in terms of crowds? Do we think places on Epic and Ikon suck people away from them? Sorry if some of the above places mentioned are unaffiliated--I'm not 100 percent up on who is and isn't in that region.
Not northeast, but the crowds for MLK weekend at my home mountain in northern VA, Massanutten were pretty typical. What changed the timing of the worst lifelines was the weather. It rained for 15 min right around lunch time on Sat. The rest of the afternoon the place was pretty empty. My friends and I had a good time. Sunday was very busy as an after effect. Long lines at the base from 11:30 all the way until close to 5:00. Usually the lines die down around 3:00. Monday was very cold, snow guns on on almost all the open trails, and quite empty. But usually a holiday Monday isn't busy, which is why day tickets are regular midweek prices.

Massanutten is an independent ski resort that has timeshare lodging. It's part of the Indy Pass. Indy could be used this weekend. I used it for Saturday since my Spec Value Pass is good Sun-Fri.
 

captain_hug99

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My main mountain is a Mom & Pop (Monarch in Colorado). We LOVE it. A busy day there and I don't need to wait long for any of the lifts that I go on. The lift that runs to blues and blacks does have a line, but nothing like an EPIC resort.

This past weekend (MLK), my daughter and I were at Keystone (EPIC). We stayed on the shuttle route and caught the first bus of the day and got to their less busy base area (Mountain West) about 5 minutes after opening. Saturday, when we arrived our bus was pretty packed and the parking lot was full. We were able to go on three runs without much of a wait. Coming down after the third run at about 10:30ish, Mountain West was pretty busy. Montezuma (mid-mountain) had a line and I didn't even want to look at the gondola.

Sunday, got on the same bus. There were a LOT less people, but it was also pretty darn cold. The parking lot was full. After two runs the base area was insane, mainly due to the lifties not enforcing the 4 people per chair.

Today, Monday, there were three people on the bus, the lot wasn't even a quarter full, zero lift line. Did a few runs and tried to beat the I70 traffic home (we were successful!).
 

saranneblue

Certified Ski Diva
Sunday River is on Ikon, and this weekend was great. The cold definitely helped us out Saturday and today. I think we are lucky at Sunday River because we are too far to attract a huge huge crowd from New York like Vermont suffers from. Yes, people drive up in droves from MA on the holidays, but there are many options before you get to us as well. The other thing that works in our favor is our 8 peaks really spread people out. There are a couple of lifts that had lines form that were probably 10 minutes or so, but you can find plenty of others without almost any line. Just depends where you want to ski and if you know how to work the mountain at those times. Helps even more when all of the trees open to disperse people even more, we are just starting to get enough base for that this season, another storm or two would really solidify things there.

Wildcat is now on Epic, and is 45 mins. southwest of Sunday River, heard it was a total $@&;show yesterday! People were parking down the road in the lots used for hiking the general area, and walking in. They are such a small locals type of place that has a big reputation, I think being on a pass like this will definitely change the experience there in a negative way on powder days like yesterday..
I was at Wildcat on Sunday and the crowds where the biggest I have seen. The lots were full. My husband had to drive a mile down the road to park. This is such a local place, I’m curious to see how they adjust to this influx.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
FINALLY. I've been wanting someone to look at stats and address this for a while. The whole "ski resorts are dying" makes absolutely no sense from my perspective.

According to the National Ski Areas Association, ski and snowboard visits are up 18 percent since 1978, to almost 60 million last winter. And skiers are more concentrated than ever

As most people know Crystal is my home mountain. I didn't realize Deer Valley limited Ikon holders for seven days. That is a great idea. It might not be enough, but it's a place to start.

“I’m not going to say Ikon isn’t part of it,” says Crystal Mountain’s DeBerry, but he also blames population growth and lessons, which increase the amount of beginner skiers on the hill.

Another thing those skiing is dying articles always tell us is that the sport isn't attracting beginners. But here it sounds like beginners/lessons are a big part of the problem, which fits in with what I see.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
I was excited to hear that skier visits are up, too. But I do worry about beginners! Between the difficulties with rental boots, the steep learning curve, and the cost of window tickets, it seems the discouragement could be almost insurmountable. The mom and pop ski hills that serve that crowd are struggling, and many are closing.

and climate change.

I just discovered this sport; I don't want it to fade away!
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Not mentioned in the article, Okemo, Sunapee, and (likely) Stowe have poor snow this year, too. Indeed, today it's melting again.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Well, then there's this: Vail Resorts reports significant downhill drop in skier visits from last year.

Mostly, though, CEO Robert Kratz attributes the drop off to the poor conditions at Whistler Blackcomb and Stevens Pass, noting that season-to-date snowfall at Whistler in particular is 60% below the 30-year average.

That figure is as of January 5, which is way too early to be making any conclusions about skier visits. The PNW had a terrible start to the year, but this whole month has been one storm after another and Stevens has been slammed with people. That is, when they can get there. Stevens Pass highway was closed for nearly a week from the west, where most people live, due to trees and power lines down on the highway after so much snow. So that will affect skier totals, but it doesn't indicate a lack of interest or a diminishing customer base.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Due to full parking lots, which has been a problem for years at Stevens and so can't be blamed only on Epic, Vail has also stepped up efforts trying to accommodate crowds.Screenshot_20200125-110247_Facebook.jpg
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Well, then there's this: Vail Resorts reports significant downhill drop in skier visits from last year.

Mostly, though, CEO Robert Kratz attributes the drop off to the poor conditions at Whistler Blackcomb and Stevens Pass, noting that season-to-date snowfall at Whistler in particular is 60% below the 30-year average.
As a public company, VR has to say something at certain time points during the fiscal year that have nothing to do with the timeframe for snowsports. Many stockholders are not skiers or boarders. Even if they are, it's unlikely they are paying much attention to the winter weather forecasts for multiple regions.

Last season, it was pretty clear that timing of big snowstorms make as much difference in how interested most people are in scheduling trips as in the past before multi-resort passes came on the scene.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Came across a recent article that mentions how often Deer Valley and Powder Mountain reach their limits on day tickets. The limit for DV is 8500, which is only reach 8-10 days per season. PowMow has already reached it's limit 7 days already, presumably during the holidays. Usually has sold out 15-20 over the course of a season since the limit policy was established.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2020/01/25/washington-ski-resort/
 

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