Overcrowding at Epic and Ikon resorts

[Christy]

They did publish a letter yesterday acknowledging the issue, which is good. There is a lot to be said just about hearing people's complaints and responding to them. They did take the "it was a powder day" angle, but also acknowledged the need to figure out solutions. One big fail was claiming that snow limited access to other resorts. Only one highway closed and it wasn't until after 9 AM, so that wouldn't have been a factor.

DISCUSSING THE TRAVEL CHALLENGES FACING OUR GUESTS
PARKING AT CRYSTAL

Recent snow offered a release to a collective pent-up excitement, bringing thousands of skiers and riders to the mountain. Unfortunately, it also brought with it traffic challenges and park-outs that limited access to the mountain for many. I know many of you have been able to enjoy outstanding snow conditions, and I know many of you have been frustrated, and I apologize for any disappointment.

Crystal does have limited parking and we do park out during extreme peak periods and last night’s perfect storm brought over a foot of snow to Crystal. At the same time the storm closed mountain passes and completely cut off access to other resorts, driving extraordinarily high volume.

After last weekend’s park-out we took several steps to better communicate and help improve access to the mountain. We added additional mobile messaging in Enumclaw to warn skiers when lots are full. We added State Patrol to assist in messaging and traffic control. We added five additional buses in Enumclaw to provide free service up to the mountain on high-volume days. (The bus is an easy, comfortable option, equipped with WiFi, and drop-off right at the plaza… it’s really a great way to get up to the mountain)

Despite planning several additional measures to communicate and accommodate more skiers and riders, a total park-out still occurred by 9:00 AM, and traffic was backed up for miles early in the morning. This proves we still have more work to do and I am committed to finding solutions to service and infrastructure problems to alleviate these constraints, particularly with parking.

There is much talk about the Ikon Pass. Yes, we’ve seen robust pass sales, but most of our Ikon Pass holders are primarily still Western WA skiers and riders. We also reduced the sales of other products, as skiers and riders moved to the Ikon. The simplest truth is that we’ve seen truly outstanding conditions, and great conditions result in more people wanting to ski. I’m proud of the fact that once on the mountain, our skiers and riders have been able to enjoy the classic Crystal experience – great mountain conditions, reasonable lift lines, uncrowded slopes, and a lot of fun; but I know that doesn’t help those who couldn’t join in on the fun.

 

[ddskis]

Ya I really think these local areas are just getting swamped with our exploding population. Stevens is my home mtn, but haven’t skied weekends in forever; it’s just not fun dodging crowds, waiting in line, and jockeying for parking.
Driving conditions Friday were pretty scary. Highway is nicknamed hiway of death, and for good reason. Plus I think I have PTSD from so many white knuckle drives on that road. Hubs is a great driver, and we have new gnarly tires on the truck so that helps.
Visibility was challenging between the snow dump and flat light. Resort had the lights on most of the day.
But the skiing was awesome! Hubs is on his new hip, and I’m rehabbed from my wrist fracture, so just nice to be out again!!

 

[Christy]

What a mess Stevens is right now. Downed trees and downed power lines. Sheesh.

I guess it will be interesting to see how they sort this out. Cheap unlimited access passes + millions of locals in proximity to these mountains may just end up making everyone unhappy.

 

[dloveski]

"Cheap unlimited access passes + millions of locals in proximity to these mountains may just end up making everyone unhappy."

pretty much sums it up.....even b/c skiing is not easy anymore----packed road and limited parking is the norm. My son (works at Brighton) says that their new parking policy results in some verbal abuse by frustrated newcomers turned away at the lot.

 

[ddskis]

Stevens totally a mess!! Pass still closed, and lotsa folks stuck. Worked out well for me today tho as hubs couldn’t get to his work at the Pass and chauffeured me to my work as I’m “essential staff” and can’t miss work

 

[Christy]

Wow. Huge news from Crystal. Due to all the complaints and unhappy people, there is a new policy going into effect this Saturday:

They will no longer sell walk up tickets on weekends and holidays. They may allow a very limited number of lift tickets to be purchased in advance online, based on what they think demand will be.

Essentially, you gotta have a Ikon Pass to ski there on weekends or holidays from now on.

I don't hate this. I think limits are necessary. I have an Ikon Pass. If I didn't, I'd be furious. And it sounds like a lot of people already are. I am already seeing Facebook comments from, say, a dad who has a pass but his son doesn't. I feel very badly for the person that can't afford a pass but would ski there occasionally. Then again, maybe these folks were stuck in a five hour traffic jam it wouldn't have gotten there anyway.

https://www.crystalmountainresort.com/the-mountain/crystal-blog/an-open-letter

Does anyone know of any other ski area that is doing this? I know Deer Valley has some kind of limit.

 

[Christy]

Excerpt from the letter:

TOO MUCH LOVE
Our customers have overwhelmingly cited the Ikon Pass as the singular cause of this recent crowding phenomenon. While this of course has played a significant role, there’s a larger context.

As skiers and snowboarders, we all love a big storm. Yet as more and more of us have discovered the joy of a PNW powder day—and as word travels faster through our networks and our community—we’ve become a much bigger bunch. On the biggest weekends, our mountain roads are choked, our parking areas are now reaching capacity earlier and there are a lot more of us charged up to play in the powder. Our region too is bursting with a lot more folks who live here because of what our mountains offer. Crystal has not been immune and we’re all feeling the crush.

Part of the charm and allure of Crystal Mountain is its relative isolation and untrammeled feel. We are literally at the end of the road. No matter what initiative we put in place to help mitigate congestion on such days, Highway 410 is still two lanes, as is Crystal Mountain Boulevard.
Too much love for Crystal is a complicated problem with no easy fix.

A TOUGH BUT NECESSARY DECISION
Effective Saturday, January 18th, we have taken a decision to preserve the aspect of what we all love about this mountain – a community resort, with an uncommercial and pristine environment and amazing skiing and riding. It was a tough call – we are skiers at heart and turning away those who love the mountain is not in our nature. But something needs to change for the community good.

We will discontinue selling walk-up full day tickets at the ticket booths on weekends and holidays in order to hold skier visits to what our roads and parking infrastructure is designed to handle. will monitor this closely and make adjustments as we continue to learn how this will impact our guests and the mountain.
On weekends and holidays, we will continue to honor all Ikon Pass holders, purchasers of any advanced ticket product such as 5-pack vouchers, advance single days tickets, and other such products.
We will offer a finite amount of advance tickets online for weekends and holidays. But we will limit the available quantities of these day tickets based on a consideration of variables such as the snow forecast, mountain conditions, traffic, road conditions, and any other factors that contribute to people making their decision to ski on that day.

Our belief is that this will have the effect of capping total numbers of skiers to a level that our roads and parking infrastructure can accommodate while still providing a premium experience.

This initiative is a part of maintaining our untrammeled experience and the rustic nature of why we love Crystal. Like everyone, we need to begin to change our behavior to help sustain our ski experience now and for future generations. Our commitment is to provide our guests with a superior experience - we believe that these steps will move us towards that objective. As a community, we all love Crystal, but right now it’s a mountain that is feeling too much love and we are taking decisive action to preserve what it means to all of us.

With respect and gratitude.

Frank DeBerry
President & COO

 

[marzNC]

Does anyone know of any other ski area that is doing this? I know Deer Valley has some kind of limit.

Deer Valley limits day tickets, which includes Ikon passholders. But even with the snow last season, they only reached the limit on a few holiday days. I asked the question when I was there last April. The high price of day tickets is probably a factor as to why DV doesn't end up overwhelmed often. Although I think there were parking issues a few times last season even with the free Park City buses.

Powder Mountain limits season passes and day tickets. They have been selling out season passes even since that started after the new owners took over several years ago. Did have days last season they sold out of day tickets. They strongly encourage people to buy a lift ticket in advance. The access road takes work to drive with snow, so would be a real pain to drive up only to find that there aren't any tickets left.

 

[Little Lightning]

Deer Valley limits day tickets, which includes Ikon passholders. But even with the snow last season, they only reached the limit on a few holiday days. I asked the question when I was there last April. The high price of day tickets is probably a factor as to why DV doesn't end up overwhelmed often. Although I think there were parking issues a few times last season even with the free Park City buses.

Powder Mountain limits season passes and day tickets. They have been selling out season passes even since that started after the new owners took over several years ago. Did have days last season they sold out of day tickets. They strongly encourage people to buy a lift ticket in advance. The access road takes work to drive with snow, so would be a real pain to drive up only to find that there aren't any tickets left.

At Deer Valley you can put a reservation in for each of your allowed days right now. You must be there by 10 am. No shows lose that day. Friday we didn't reserve and had no issues.

 

[ddskis]

WOW. That’s big news from Crystal. Gotta give them kudos for transparency, communication, strategizing, and apologizing. Vail has done NONE of these. Hubs and I have both worked at SP and he’s still there, as our gear and ski connection, but it’s been so disappointing to see the changes in the area. There was another thread about how the ski area takeovers have changed our home mountain, and I just didn’t have the stomach to chime in. We both have degrees in ski resort management, which gives us insight and makes us want to problem solve and strategize, but it’s just like shouting into the storm w/Vail. Will be interesting to follow and see if Vail has a response.

 

[mustski]

Before Alterra, and before Mammoth bought us out, BBMR limited ticket sales on weekends. They also offered vouchers, to be used towards your next lift ticket purchase, if you left before 1:00. This kept the crowding down to palatable levels and allowed afternoon skiers to arrive without crowding out the hill. Unfortunately, once Mammoth bought us out, that all went away. Truthfully, it wouldn't have mattered. Everyone who had a Mammoth season pass inherited us for free and there was no way to control how many season pass holders showed up on the weekend. Alterra hasn't done anything different, so it stays the same. If Crystal can control the crowds, power to them.

Deer Valley claims to be controlling the crowds, but the locals say otherwise. I've heard a fair amount of Ikon complaining from DV skiers.

 

[ilovepugs]

Even though we haven’t had any major issues this season (due to lack of snow), we are simply getting more and more fed up with the weekend crowding at Stowe, which seems to have increased every year. I can’t imagine what it will be like on a good snow year...

It will be very disheartening if Sugarbush goes this way as well, though hopefully Mount Ellen will maintain its charm and low traffic. At this point, I’m saving my pennies to one day spring for a weekend place in the Northeast Kingdom by a lake.

 

[MissySki]

Even though we haven’t had any major issues this season (due to lack of snow), we are simply getting more and more fed up with the weekend crowding at Stowe, which seems to have increased every year. I can’t imagine what it will be like on a good snow year...

It will be very disheartening if Sugarbush goes this way as well, though hopefully Mount Ellen will maintain its charm and low traffic. At this point, I’m saving my pennies to one day spring for a weekend place in the Northeast Kingdom by a lake.

Hopefully Sugarbush won’t! I don’t feel like there has been a major change at Sunday River with Ikon at least.

 

[marzNC]

Deer Valley claims to be controlling the crowds, but the locals say otherwise. I've heard a fair amount of Ikon complaining from DV skiers.

Were the DV skiers who were complaining regular travelers or locals?

I wonder how many DV regulars were aware when the day ticket cap was raised a while back, a few years before Alterra bought DV. Before Ikon, the relatively high cost of day tickets and DV season passes meant that traveling skiers staying in Park City or SLC for a week were not likely to even think about skiing at DV for a day.

Last season had periods of excellent snow on weekends, plus the first season for Ikon. That was after a couple of seasons with fewer than average powder days in Jan-Feb. Even so, DV only sold day tickets to the limit during holiday periods.

 

[ilovepugs]

Hopefully Sugarbush won’t! I don’t feel like there has been a major change at Sunday River with Ikon at least.

I don’t have any inside info on this, but with Alterra’s purchase, I would expect that next season the ‘bush will be an unlimited offering on the Ikon pass. The good news is that Alterra only has 2 other unlimited Eastern mountains within weekend driving distance of Sugarbush, unlike Peak Resorts, which had up to 6 (depending on how far people are willing to drive) and surely has drawn some people from the NY, NH, VT and PA to Stowe.

 

[MissySki]

I don’t have any inside info on this, but with Alterra’s purchase, I would expect that next season the ‘bush will be an unlimited offering on the Ikon pass. The good news is that Alterra only has 2 other unlimited Eastern mountains within weekend driving distance of Sugarbush, unlike Peak Resorts, which had up to 6 (depending on how far people are willing to drive) and surely has drawn some people from the NY, NH, VT and PA to Stowe.

Good point, I was forgetting about the unlimited option next season! The funny part for me with Epic, not really being a Stowe fan, is that I’d take unlimited at somewhere like Wildcat over Stowe any day. So I would’ve thought the recent purchase would’ve made things better and more spread out in the east.. unless everyone is really that Stowe crazy??!?

I’ve also been a proponent of wanting Sunday River to have an unlimited option with Alterra (which I know can’t happen since they don’t own them), but perhaps I’m starting to not feel that way anymore. I love my mountain, and I don’t really want it overrun with new unlimited pass holders.. Would still love an option like we used to have with the Maxx pass, even though that hope is long gone lol.

 

[Christy]

It will be interesting to see how this holiday weekend goes at Crystal. They sold out of advance online day tickets almost immediately. it's not hard to see why people are wanting to ski--here's the snow totals.

 

[ddskis]

Agree. Have to say it shows commitment on Crystal’s part to limit numbers on a big money weekend! Esp given the later start to the season and unimpressive snow totals to start the season.

Hubs used to get a daily email w/daily skier #s at SP that I found really interesting, but no more since Vail took over

 

[mustski]

Were the DV skiers who were complaining regular travelers or locals?

I wonder how many DV regulars were aware when the day ticket cap was raised a while back, a few years before Alterra bought DV. Before Ikon, the relatively high cost of day tickets and DV season passes meant that traveling skiers staying in Park City or SLC for a week were not likely to even think about skiing at DV for a day.

Last season had periods of excellent snow on weekends, plus the first season for Ikon. That was after a couple of seasons with fewer than average powder days in Jan-Feb. Even so, DV only sold day tickets to the limit during holiday periods.

The ones I know of are locals. They blame Ikon for the increase in crowds last season and claim that DV is allowing more folks on the slopes since being purchased by Alterra. It’s anecdotal so I don’t know if it’s true or not.

 

[marzNC]

The ones I know of are locals. They blame Ikon for the increase in crowds last season and claim that DV is allowing more folks on the slopes since being purchased by Alterra. It’s anecdotal so I don’t know if it’s true or not.

Thanks for the details. From my reading and a conversation with a long time DV employee, the cap was not raised after the sale of DV to Alterra. It was raised a little before that, but probably was rarely reached. What changed with Alterra ownership was the increased nationwide effort and money spent to market DV to more travelers.

I would guess most Ikon holders didn't use all 5 or 7 days available at DV. But it makes sense that those Ikon holders who spent a day or two at DV to check it out resulted in more days with more skiers on the slopes than before. May also be that early adopters of Ikon were people who naturally show up when slopes are usually relatively empty, which is when a local season pass holder is more likely to be skiing. I and my friends wouldn't have spent a day at DV without Ikon. I was going to wait until at least my ski buddy was over 70, if not until I could get the senior rate too. Of course, having more people around skiing and also spending money eating or shopping is the idea behind the existence of a multi-resort pass. Especially when a resort is owned by a multi-resort company like Alterra, Vail Resorts, Boyne, or Powdr.

The good powder storms that meant driving up LCC or BCC was problematic might also have caused some Ikon travelers to decide to see what DV had to offer on a powder day or a day or two after a storm. From what I learned from a former mid-Atlantic L3 instructor, there are powder stashes to be found at DV. Fair to say that most DV local passholders are not looking to ski the Daly Chutes in deep powder.