Overcrowding at Epic and Ikon resorts

[Christy]

@Sheena @contesstant What are you guys talking about regarding some Sun Valley announcement?

Yeah, the Sun Valley thing, a bone being thrown because we're not happy about the Epic partnership, which truly gives us locals ZERO benefit?? Hmmm...

As for increase in traffic, I see it big time particularly since I was fortunate enough to ski there midweek for 4 seasons, and have NEVER seen anything like yesterday or Wednesday. Rode the gondola and over and over "we came here because the MCP and couldn't get to LCC" OR "wanted to because all the snow fell here."

There just doesn't seem to be much upside for the locals. I'd still be happy to pay quite a lot more for a season pass if it would help limit traffic on the mountain.

**sigh** I want to count my blessings, but it's just kind of a bummer. The mountain gets tracked out within an hour or less on powder days.

You moved there on purpose and you loved it the way it had been for years. I don't think there's anything wrong with being unhappy at big, sudden changes they don't benefit you.

 

[Sheena]

@Sheena @contesstant What are you guys talking about regarding some Sun Valley announcement?

I saw something this morning that was just a teaser something like stay tuned. Looks like its published now:

https://www.snowbasin.com/tickets-passes/season-passes/season-passes/

 

[marzNC]

I saw something this morning that was just a teaser something like stay tuned. Looks like its published now:

https://www.snowbasin.com/tickets-passes/season-passes/season-passes/

Interesting . . . following the MCP model, meaning a few included days and then 50% discount for additional days. The tweak is that can get 50% off during early season instead of having use the 3 included days.

Sun & Snow Pass
A new pass for those who want to take full advantage of two renowned ski areas, Sun Valley and Snowbasin with no blackout dates. Purchase early for best pricing and the most benefits.

Three days at each resort - no blackout dates
50% off window ticket rate afterwards
50% off window ticket rate in the Early Value season before using pass days
50% off the summer 2019 lift rides

 

[snowysnow]

Tremblant was on Max Pass the last few years and we definitely saw an increase in traffic. This year....OMG - Saturday was a new record, 14,600!! Waaay too many people. Some if it is the IKON pass and some it was the record snowfall this past week. Things are now down to a holiday week level.

I seriously think that Tremblant slowed down the lifts on Saturday. The runs didn't seem all that crowded, but the lift lines were just plain horrendous.

Agreed. I was there that day and I thought maybe the reason why we've never seen a crowd like that is because the Sublime used to blackout Family Day weekend. But I definitely saw a bunch of IKON passes while waiting in line. It was the first time skiing with a big group of friends and we lost each other pretty quickly and we didn't get in as many runs as we had hoped. I felt bad for the friends who bought day lift tickets :(

Well marzNC, I beg to differ. We have a large group of Brits in at Tremblant and Mont Ste. Anne these 2 weeks. Those 2 places are promoted over in Britain and attract a lot of customers. Tremblant runs a Ski/Ride la Gap for Gap year students from Britain.

Crazy! I had no idea there was such a thing.

 

[Jilly]

@snowysnow, the Tonnik pass was blacked out though.

 

[snowysnow]

@snowysnow, the Tonnik pass was blacked out though.

I have the IKON pass this year. Having had the Sublime for the past several years, I never had the privilege to experience Family Day weekend first hand. So that Saturday, I just thought the crowds were "normal" for that weekend. However, I'm starting to think the crowds were due more to Family Day tourists + IKON tourists + other tourists, on top of the local crowds.

 

[Jilly]

14,600 skier visits.....all time record! Plus all the new snow the week before.

 

[SkiBam]

@snowysnow, the Tonnik pass was blacked out though.

Yes, the Tonik pass was blacked out, but on it we get three "float" days to use whenever we want - blacked out days or notincluded - so there might have been some Tonik passholders. Not me, though!!

 

[Christy]

Why in the world did they put Family Day on the (US) President's Day? It seems like it would have been so much nicer had Canadians had a Monday where they didn't have to compete with traveling Americans (it's even worse in BC since most WA state schools has the whole week off for midwinter break).

 

[QCskier]

Yes, the Tonik pass was blacked out, but on it we get three "float" days to use whenever we want - blacked out days or notincluded - so there might have been some Tonik passholders. Not me, though!!

Yes, I was one of those Tonik passholders who used a floating day for the Saturday. The line-ups were bad everywhere on the mountain. Tremblant was crowded yesterday too but it was nothing like the week before. I think the Ikon pass is definitely causing an uptick in traffic there.

 

[Jilly]

Why in the world did they put Family Day on the (US) President's Day? It seems like it would have been so much nicer had Canadians had a Monday where they didn't have to compete with traveling Americans (it's even worse in BC since most WA state schools has the whole week off for midwinter break).

My thoughts exactly!! BC has the Monday before.

 

[canannie]

Tremblant was on Max Pass the last few years and we definitely saw an increase in traffic. This year....OMG - Saturday was a new record, 14,600!!

Blue Mountain (Hill) saw 20 thousand on Family Day apparently........ I did not go

 

[Christy]

My thoughts exactly!! BC has the Monday before.

I think they changed it. It was on Presidents' Day this year in BC too.

 

[GaSkier]

I wonder what will happen next season? Given that this is the first season for Ikon, certainly plenty of people like me who are curious to check out Deer Valley as part of a trip to SLC.

How long has the new Summit lift been around? Always takes a year or two before more people discover major upgrades if they aren't regulars at a given mountain.

We were at Solitude/Deer Valley early January for a couple of weeks. Way too crowded for us (and downright dangerous several days). Will try to roam elsewhere next year.

 

[SallyCat]

This is a quick overview of why multi-resort passes are a problem for snowsports.

 

[Christy]

I'm glad someone wrote an article on the downside. I hope that small hills can still lure people with lower prices and smaller crowds. I think they really need to play this up. I'm also guessing these smaller hills often have cheaper lodging in the vicinity than the Vail resorts do, for example.

The article says:

Thanks to the consolidation of resorts and the rise of ultra-affordable, multi-resort passes, the price of skiing hasn't been this cheap since the advent of chairlifts

I'm so tired of hearing this. I don't consider $769 (Epic at its cheapest)+ to be "ultra affordable". It's a great value for people who are going to ski a certain number of times per year; who were going to buy a season pass at a Vail or Alterra resort anyway; or who are going to take multiple ski trips. But it's not what most new skiers might want to spend; it is a lot for families or individuals on a budget. You can go to White Pass, which is a very respectable ski area day trip distance for a lot of people, 12 times for that, which is all many people might want to ski in a season anyway.

 

[SallyCat]

I'm so tired of hearing this. I don't consider $769 (Epic at its cheapest)+ to be "ultra affordable". It's a great value for people who are going to ski a certain number of times per year;

And it's great for people who can afford airfare and lodging at the participating resorts. The median household income in the US is around 56k, so that's not most people.

 

[MissySki]

And it's great for people who can afford airfare and lodging at the participating resorts. The median household income in the US is around 56k, so that's not most people.

I dunno, I’ve been using the Ikon this season for mostly just day trips in New England. Yes, I did also use it for Diva West in Aspen which more than covered the pass in and of itself, but really I did that trip on the cheap due to having this pass, reasonable airfare, and a great lodging deal from another diva. Otherwise I haven’t flown anywhere and have only done lodging once so far this year. I’ll be under $40 per visit when all is said and done, hopefully substantially less than that depending how much more I get out. On median household income, I’d be more curious what it is for skiers specifically as I think it’s probably a lot higher, especially for those who don’t live near a ski area. I grew up really poor, which is probabaly why I didn’t get on skis for the first time until I’d graduated from college living in MA. Sometimes we didn’t even have a car, there was no thought on getting to a ski area even if it had been cheaper, couldn’t even get there nevermind spend on tickets and rentals etc. Thank goodness I have much more income to play with now, motivated in part by how I grew up for sure.

 

[SallyCat]

I’d be more curious what it is for skiers specifically as I think it’s probably a lot higher, especially for those who don’t live near a ski area.

Right, that's exactly my point. If the multi-resort passes drive smaller, local mountains out of business, and drive up day-ticket prices at the remaining non-affiliates, this will create a significantly higher entry barrier to skiing than currently exists. As the article explains, these passes do not accurately reflect the cost of running a ski area; non-affiliates can't compete well with them.

New skiers don't buy Ikon passes. They spend their money on rental gear, lessons, and day passes. Skiing will always be a relatively expensive sport, but the concern is that these new combo passes are driving so much business toward member resorts (hence the worry about overcrowding) that individuals and families won't have locally-accessible, relatively affordable options to find their way into the sport.

As someone who makes a living on the ability and desire of families to purchase ski and board lessons for their kids, that concerns me.

 

[Christy]

It's $949 for the unlimited Ikon pass next year. For the person who used to buy a Crystal season pass and now has to buy this, there's no savings or advantage unless they want to shell out for ski trips to get more value out of it. (You do get days at Snoqualmie, but Snoqualmie doesn't have a lot of appeal for a Crystal skier). There's no other ikon options in Washington or in Oregon or Idaho, so you're probably getting on a plane to take advantage of any other destinations. So again, this whole "these passes make skiing so cheap" is just not true for a lot of people.

I know there's the base pass which has the blackouts and is cheaper, but I don't think Crystal had something comparable so I can't compare.