Opinions wanted - new ski choices

[Gilly]

Hi There,

I'm new and much appreciative of this forum space.

I just put myself on a new pair of skis and I'm struggling with my feelings for them........here is some back story

New skier in Montana with about 35 days in this year and access to a great local hill and a great instructor. My skiing has progressed leaps and bounds. Super comfortable on blues and easy blacks. The unknown, bumps, and super steep slows me way down - lots of fear of consequence - but I can get down them.

I started this season with new to me Sheeva 10s 156s (I'm 5'6" 145) - I love them. Current instructor encouraged me to add a narrower ski to my quiver. I focused mainly on REI's availability for their returnability and got the Kenja 88 163.

I've skied them 4 days
Day 1: heavy fresh snow on a warm day and they seemed stiff and flat but I felt very comfy on them and had fun
Day 2: I skied the next day and it was hard pack and ice (shocking after that warm day I know), again skis felt solid I didn't love the ice but I felt in control the whole time but not much fun was had - I learned that they hate any back seat hesitation
Day 3: Same icy hard pack with new snow falling on top - had some good runs but again no joy was had
Day 4: Lesson today on 4-5 inches of groomed in powder and some fresh - of course everything felt pretty darn good and there might have been joy but how wouldn't there be?

I like how solid and damp they feel but I guess I'm missing some of the playfulness that I like with the Sheevas. I also feel like the Kenjas tattle on me if I get anything wrong (maybe that is a good thing). Do I need to give these skis more time and get comfy with a different feel or is there a ski I should be trying that gives me the best of both worlds?

Or is "Suck It Up Buttercup" the correct answer to all my first world problems ;)

 

[marzNC]

I started this season with new to me Sheeva 10s 156s (I'm 5'6" 145) - I love them. Current instructor encouraged me to add a narrower ski to my quiver. I focused mainly on REI's availability for their returnability and got the Kenja 88 163.

Welcome! What other skis have you tried, if any?

The Sheeva and Kenja are quite different. Skis should be fun and not feel like work.

 

[Gilly]

Thanks @marzNC !
Not many...... I demoed an older pair of Rossi Temptation 84s before the Kenja's - I found them more playful but they annoyed me with their big round tips and I was just on them to see how I felt about less width under foot.

I'd like to demo the BP 88s but locally I can only grab a 153 - one of the employees at my local hill has a pair that she has offered up to try I just need to confirm its binding doable. I'm guessing they will give me a very different feel. I may try and grab those tomorrow morning and do a few runs on both to truly compare. Good question to get me thinking........

The Kenja's haven't given me any true joy BUT they have given me plenty of "I've got this moments" in those icy conditions.

 

[DebbieSue]

You should be able to find joy in a narrower ski! I do wonder if BP88 153 might be short for you, and thus nowhere near as stable as Kenja on ice. The next length 159 (or even the next one) might come closer to Kenja 88 163 for control on ice, but be a bit more fun. I’m 5’5” 140 on BP88 at 159 and find them terrific in Northeast ice and just playful as my prior 154 Wild Belles which I chose for bumps and trees but really were not long enough for stability at speed or on ice. The Santa Ana 88 in the high 150s/low 160s might also be more playful than Kenja.

 

[scandium]

I like how solid and damp they feel but I guess I'm missing some of the playfulness that I like with the Sheevas. I also feel like the Kenjas tattle on me if I get anything wrong (maybe that is a good thing). Do I need to give these skis more time and get comfy with a different feel or is there a ski I should be trying that gives me the best of both worlds?

You should definitely be able to find a ski that might suit you more. I agree BP88 would be too short in the 153 for you, and I think wouldn't give you an accurate representation of how they ski - you probably need to try the 159s for a fair comparison. I assume they're the newer, stiffer ones rather than the original BP88 as there's been construction changes in the last couple years. Seconding the SA88 as another good option to try, assuming you wouldn't be keen on the Experience 88 based on how you felt about the tips on the 84.

 

[elemmac]

I started this season with new to me Sheeva 10s 156s (I'm 5'6" 145) - I love them. Current instructor encouraged me to add a narrower ski to my quiver. I focused mainly on REI's availability for their returnability and got the Kenja 88 163.

Not all skis are created equal in similar lengths. The 156 Sheeva 10 will ski significantly easier than a 163 Kenja. For a reference point, I would ski the Sheeva in a 172 and I am perfectly comfortable on a Kenja in a 163. The Kenja is a lot more ski per centimeter of length. If you're having a ball on the Sheeva in a 156, I would say you're probably feeling the stiffness of the ski without really being able to bend and work the ski at this point.

You mentioned REI's returnability... Can you trade in for a different ski if you don't like them?

Do I need to give these skis more time and get comfy with a different feel or is there a ski I should be trying that gives me the best of both worlds?

There are definitely skis out there that will get you the best of both worlds. As mentioned, I think the BP88 in a 159, or stepping into the BP82 might be a really fun ski to compliment your Sheevas as a 2-ski quiver. The SA88 in a 158, could be a solid option that splits the difference between stability of the Kenja on hardpack and the playfulness of the Sheeva in soft. Going with the Volkl Yumi instead of the Kenja could be another possibility to get what you're looking for. A decent amount softer, and forgiving, but still has that classic hardpack performance that Volkl is really known for.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably pack the Kenjas away for a year and pick up something a bit more forgiving for the time being (unless you can trade them in). I think after another year with 35+ days under your belt, your skill will start to match what the Kenja wants for input. And if they still don't give you joy at that point, sell them.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Skis should be fun and not feel like work.

I went through a bit of the same doubt as you last week. Demo'd a pair of skis I hated. I figured out how to ski them like they wanted to be skied. Self-doubt crept in....am I skiing wrong? Should I be skiing exactly the way these skis want? Then SkiDiva advice won over....why make skiing harder than it needs to be when there are other skis out there that feel fun and confidence inspiring to me?

There is enough to worry about on the slopes technique wise, your skis shouldn't be making it more complicated.

 

[tinymoose]

I know you're in Montana, but I'm assuming you're primarily skiing groomers for now? I ask because I think there's a couple different things going on here. 1) The Kenja is a lot of ski. It's got a lot of metal in it, which makes it fairly stiff, and this may be why you're not having a whole lot of fun on them. If you can't really bend the ski, it's going to feel stiff and sorta planky. As your skills improve, at your size, you may be able to work the ski one day, it's just probably too much for where you're at right now. 2) The Kenja is 88 at the waist. While it's narrower than your 102 mm Sheevas, it's not a very narrow ski. Your instructor probably wants you on something narrower because it's a lot easier to learn how to carve and get up on your edges the narrower your ski is.

For example, I own 2 skis... the Volkl Yumi, which is 84 at the waist, and a pair of junior race skis that are under 70 mm at the waist. The amount of effort and ease between the two skis as far as getting them on edge is very noticeable. Now, I don't think you need a pair of race skis, but I'd at least try to focus more on something in the 70s or at most low 80s just because it will make it easier on yourself as far as learning goes. It's not that you can't ski wider skis, you clearly can, it's just about having equipment that makes learning certain skills easier.

 

[Gilly]

Wow everyone thank you!

You are all sharing a really consistent message thanks for that!!

@elemmac I think you nailed it with me feeling the stiffness with out being able to bend it.
@tinymoose and yup you are correct on him encouraging the narrow waist for the learning curve

I was able to borrow a friends skis today - I thought she had BP 88s, I was bummed to find out they were Cheyenne 78s 163. We had a few more inches over night and the conditions were really nice. I did a couple of runs and wanted my Kenjas back. They were fun to turn but they definitely didn't feel as stable/damp and they actually backed me off a decent amount. Felt like the only thing I accomplished was knowing I didn't want a ski Blizzard doesn't make anymore - Actually they did make me appreciate how rock solid the Kenjas feel.

So @elemmac as someone skiing the Kenja do you think giving myself time with them would make sense. Today we had lovely conditions, I was happy to be back on them on the groomers, I skied them in about 6 inches of powder on a few runs and started to feel like I could figure that out some day. They are total 4x4s thru crud and I felt solid on them last weekend when the mountain was a rock. Clearly they have a ton of pros. How steep is that learning curve for me to start skiing more aggressively and let them off their leash?

@DebbieSue our stats are really similar and your thoughts on the BP 88 is really helpful

I have until early March next year to be able to return with REI - these comments jibe with my thought today while skiing; hunt for a pair of BP 88s (or maybe 82) ideally from REI, find a demo or something when they start to appear for next season. Then decide from there; instead of making it my life's mission to figure this out with like 2 more weeks of skiing left. The Yumi 84 is probably another that should be on my watch list. I could get my hands on a pair of Yumi 80s now but I'm a bit concerned I'll feel about them the way I did the Cheyenne 78s

Thank you all so very much for your input

 

[scandium]

Wow everyone thank you!

You are all sharing a really consistent message thanks for that!!

@elemmac I think you nailed it with me feeling the stiffness with out being able to bend it.
@tinymoose and yup you are correct on him encouraging the narrow waist for the learning curve

I was able to borrow a friends skis today - I thought she had BP 88s, I was bummed to find out they were Cheyenne 78s 163. We had a few more inches over night and the conditions were really nice. I did a couple of runs and wanted my Kenjas back. They were fun to turn but they definitely didn't feel as stable/damp and they actually backed me off a decent amount. Felt like the only thing I accomplished was knowing I didn't want a ski Blizzard doesn't make anymore - Actually they did make me appreciate how rock solid the Kenjas feel.

So @elemmac as someone skiing the Kenja do you think giving myself time with them would make sense. Today we had lovely conditions, I was happy to be back on them on the groomers, I skied them in about 6 inches of powder on a few runs and started to feel like I could figure that out some day. They are total 4x4s thru crud and I felt solid on them last weekend when the mountain was a rock. Clearly they have a ton of pros. How steep is that learning curve for me to start skiing more aggressively and let them off their leash?

@DebbieSue our stats are really similar and your thoughts on the BP 88 is really helpful

I have until early March next year to be able to return with REI - these comments jibe with my thought today while skiing; hunt for a pair of BP 88s (or maybe 82) ideally from REI, find a demo or something when they start to appear for next season. Then decide from there; instead of making it my life's mission to figure this out with like 2 more weeks of skiing left. The Yumi 84 is probably another that should be on my watch list. I could get my hands on a pair of Yumi 80s now but I'm a bit concerned I'll feel about them the way I did the Cheyenne 78s

Thank you all so very much for your input

Cheyenne and Yumi are completely different, don't worry! I hated the 2019 BP78s which were a couple year after the Cheyennes but essentially the successor. Flappy tip, and too soft, making me worried about pushing the ski too hard because I felt like I'd just get bounced off the next lump of snow I hit. I have the 2019 Yumis and they are a lot more substantial but keep the same feeling of being easy to turn. You won't charge through the snow on a Yumi like you do on a Kenja, but you also don't have to work 110% on every run and they're much more forgiving of bad skiing.

 

[Gilly]

Cheyenne and Yumi are completely different, don't worry! I hated the 2019 BP78s which were a couple year after the Cheyennes but essentially the successor. Flappy tip, and too soft, making me worried about pushing the ski too hard because I felt like I'd just get bounced off the next lump of snow I hit. I have the 2019 Yumis and they are a lot more substantial but keep the same feeling of being easy to turn. You won't charge through the snow on a Yumi like you do on a Kenja, but you also don't have to work 110% on every run and they're much more forgiving of bad skiing.

@scandium do you have the Yumis in the 80 or 84?

 

[tinymoose]

I owned the Kenjas prior to the Yumis, and I tend to think of them as a Kenja-lite. I swapped skis because I'm only 5'1" and 100 lbs. and just didn't really have the mass (or skill) to bend the Kenja well at my size.

The major difference between the two skis is the Kenja has metal running the full length of the ski, whereas the Yumi just has a titanal band under the binding area, but is otherwise a wood ski. Obviously, the Yumi will be softer and less rigid, but it's still a fairly damp ski overall. On cruddy, choppy days I almost always opt to take out my Yumis over my race skis, as I'll get tossed around less.

I've never tried the Cheyenne, but my experience with the Black Pearl 88 is that it's a softer ski than the Yumi.

 

[Gilly]

@tinymoose interesting! From what I've read I would not have guessed the BP was softer - do you have the Yumi 84?

 

[tinymoose]

@tinymoose interesting! From what I've read I would not have guessed the BP was softer - do you have the Yumi 84?

I do. I didn’t realize they made any other width until I saw you asking and looked it up. When I purchased mine it was just the one width.

I didn’t dislike the Black Pearl, but I didn’t enjoy it as much as the Yumi. I have an old post where I gave my experience with them.
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/2018-volkl-yumi-and-black-pearl-88.22628/

 

[Gilly]

@tinymoose that very much makes me think I need to demo them both! So great to have such fun problems ;)

 

[DebbieSue]

I did NOT like the BP88 when I demoed it in 2014 (chatter) nor the Yummy (too soft) but I was given skis under 150cm. I was lighter at 125, but still, neither was enough ski. I didn’t like the BP88 any better in back then either when I tried it longer in mid 150s. My demo reports are on here, but I don’t know how to paste in the link (yet) so you’d have to search to read details. I also know that I value light weight and short turning radius. I’m guessing that you feel good with the longer radius of the Kenja, so you might want to see if the radius correlates w the fun vs stability factor for any other ski you try (radius varies with length for each model ski, but you can look it up, to make it all more complicated). BP88 continued to evolve from 2014, which I didn’t like, to the 20/2021 that I have now and love as much in powder and chop as I do on ice/scratchy conditions. BP88 in 159 is such a big seller that I was advised to put funky stickers on mine so that they wouldn’t be picked up inadvertently by another skier.

 

[scandium]

@scandium do you have the Yumis in the 80 or 84?

I have the 84. 2021 is the first year they did Yumi 80/84, I think.

 

[fgor]

BP88 in 159 is such a big seller that I was advised to put funky stickers on mine so that they wouldn’t be picked up inadvertently by another skier.

Haha, i love this! I have the 2020 BP88 @159 and I've had people accidentally pick up my pair of skis, thinking they were theirs (on the next rack over). More than once! I took a big gouge out of the topsheet of mine soon after I bought them, and I used to double check the gouge was there when grabbing them, before I started hanging my blue poles over the tips to make them easier to recognise :P

 

[elemmac]

So @elemmac as someone skiing the Kenja do you think giving myself time with them would make sense. Today we had lovely conditions, I was happy to be back on them on the groomers, I skied them in about 6 inches of powder on a few runs and started to feel like I could figure that out some day. They are total 4x4s thru crud and I felt solid on them last weekend when the mountain was a rock. Clearly they have a ton of pros. How steep is that learning curve for me to start skiing more aggressively and let them off their leash?

I don't actually own them. But I've demoed them many many times. Even though I've had a lot of fun with them, they've never given me that "true love" feeling the way other skis have, so I've never made the purchase. It is definitely possible that you'll grow to love them. You had mentioned an instructor recommended something narrower...what about taking another lesson on the Kenjas with the same instructor? Having someone observe your skiing on the Kenjas, especially when they've seen you ski on other skis, will provide valuable feedback on if the skis are holding you back or helping your skiing.

If a lesson this season isn't an option and you have until next March to return, I would look into some more demos early next season (or whatever you can find at the end of this one), and explore other options. You may find something else that you really enjoy, or you may come back to the Kenja's and decide they are what you wanted but just didn't know it.

Last thought...the narrower Black Pearl 82 (I haven't been on the 78) is very different than the old Cheyenne, in a good way.

 

[newboots]

I ski the BP82s in the Northeast and have a lot of fun on them. A great ski priced lower than one would expect is the Liberty line. Paging @nopoleskier @Olesya Chornoguz and other Liberty skiers!