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On women's skis

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Interesting review on the Wild Joys. Now I'm wondering if they will be too stiff for my liking 5'1 @ 105 lbs....
https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2017-2018-head-wild-joy
After reading that, I do remember that these were the skis that I immediately returned to the tent after taking the EASY green run from the tent to the gondola because they wanted to lock into a turn HARD. Conditions were REALLY crappy that day (it was raining at the bottom and I was exhausted already.) This is a far more serious ski than the Total Joy at 85 under foot, which is a ski that I've always liked.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
After reading that, I do remember that these were the skis that I immediately returned to the tent after taking the EASY green run from the tent to the gondola because they wanted to lock into a turn HARD. Conditions were REALLY crappy that day (it was raining at the bottom and I was exhausted already.) This is a far more serious ski than the Total Joy at 85 under foot, which is a ski that I've always liked.
I remember it took me a few runs to get used to them as felt very different from what I was used to skiing. They were very fun once I figured them out and thought I should try to find some to buy. Skied the rest of the day (or 2) on them.
Now after reading that review i was thinking, "hmm" do I want a ski that is "very stiff"........ I do like a damp ski and is probably why I wasn't thrilled with the older Santa Ana 100's in both sizes 153 and 161. Also, there was about 4 ft (no kidding) of heavy wet snow that had fallen overnight. That's why I demoed them. But I still have the Sambas and still like them! Just want a narrower ski in the 88-92 range.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
Maybe need to think about Sheeva 9's again. Or ? Kind of want something for Taos....
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I have not tried the Yumi. Maybe I should? Thinking more of the 88-92 waist so would also be good in Tahoe conditions.
The older version of the Yumi was the one Volkl model that I liked for demo runs. I think the Kama is the equivalent design.

Le Ski Mastery carries Volkl if you want to demo when at Taos. I bought my Stormriders from there after demo'ing to be sure. I'd taken them out on two very short runs at a PA demo day the month before so knew they had potential. Alain and his staff know their stuff.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
The older version of the Yumi was the one Volkl model that I liked for demo runs. I think the Kama is the equivalent design.

Le Ski Mastery carries Volkl if you want to demo when at Taos. I bought my Stormriders from there after demo'ing to be sure. I'd taken them out on two very short runs at a PA demo day the month before so knew they had potential. Alain and his staff know their stuff.
I'd like to try the Santa Ana 88, Elan Ripstick 88, Sheeva 9 and maybe the new k2. Guess I could add Yumi to the mix but that doesn't seem like a good ski for Tahoe conditions as don't ski much groomed in Tahoe.
Any other ideas?
 

Pixie Perfect

Certified Ski Diva
I'd like to try the Santa Ana 88, Elan Ripstick 88, Sheeva 9 and maybe the new k2. Guess I could add Yumi to the mix but that doesn't seem like a good ski for Tahoe conditions as don't ski much groomed in Tahoe.
Any other ideas?
I am a petite Tahoe skier and demoed the Yumi at Sierra at Tahoe last season! I had a blast on them and those are the skis I ultimately bought. Can’t wait to ski them this season. :smile: I didn’t just ski groomers when I demoed, but I am only skiing greens and blues at this time. I also only ski in bounds & frontside — no backcountry skiing for me.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
I am a petite Tahoe skier and demoed the Yumi at Sierra at Tahoe last season! I had a blast on them and those are the skis I ultimately bought. Can’t wait to ski them this season. :smile: I didn’t just ski groomers when I demoed, but I am only skiing greens and blues at this time. I also only ski in bounds & frontside — no backcountry skiing for me.
Good to know.... I may try them if I do some demoing. Generally, I start out on some groomers for warm up but like to ski ungroomed runs. The Yumis may be narrower than I want but understand would be good for my stats (5'1 <105 )
 

nopoleskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yumis are 84 under foot. IMO 84 vs 88 isn't a whole lot of difference. Me Going from 71 to 90 that's a noticeable difference. (me on my atomic 11's switching out to Z-90's)
Hope you get to demo!
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
Yumis are 84 under foot. IMO 84 vs 88 isn't a whole lot of difference. Me Going from 71 to 90 that's a noticeable difference. (me on my atomic 11's switching out to Z-90's)
Hope you get to demo!
You're right! The narrowest skis I have now are the Black Crows @ 97mm. When in St Moritz this past season, the widest skis I could find were the Stockli's at 78.. Yes it definitely took me time to get used to them!
 

tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You're right! The narrowest skis I have now are the Black Crows @ 97mm. When in St Moritz this past season, the widest skis I could find were the Stockli's at 78.. Yes it definitely took me time to get used to them!

FWIW, the Yumis are my wide skis, aka the skis I take out west. I never noticed a huge difference between my Kenjas and Yumis as far as their width; 87 vs. 84/83 (old Yumis were 83, I think).

I also tried the BP 88s and new Yumis (84) back-to-back on the same day and while they certainly had their differences in how they skied, I never really felt like the waist width was a factor. The Yumis didn't feel substantially narrower. The Yumis certainly aren't a powder ski, but I don't consider them a ski specifically made for groomers/frontside either. They're not built like a carving skis; there isn't a lot of side-cut to them.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
FWIW, the Yumis are my wide skis, aka the skis I take out west. I never noticed a huge difference between my Kenjas and Yumis as far as their width; 87 vs. 84/83 (old Yumis were 83, I think).

I also tried the BP 88s and new Yumis (84) back-to-back on the same day and while they certainly had their differences in how they skied, I never really felt like the waist width was a factor. The Yumis didn't feel substantially narrower. The Yumis certainly aren't a powder ski, but I don't consider them a ski specifically made for groomers/frontside either. They're not built like a carving skis; there isn't a lot of side-cut to them.
Great feedback and we're about the same size! I would probably try the 154's . Wonder how they would do in Taos bumps? You're a racer and I'm clearly not as fast as you Eastern skiers ! But I like off piste probably about 75% of the time so they need to work for that as well. I'm used to the Blizzard Sambas 98 and the Black Crows 97 for everything.... Probably won't be demoing skis in Tahoe before Taos as will just want to ski!
 

SierraLuLu

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The Yumis certainly aren't a powder ski, but I don't consider them a ski specifically made for groomers/frontside either.

How do the Yumis hold up in powder, at least compared to other skis in the 84-94 width? I’m thinking about demoing these if I get a shot early in the year, but doubt I’ll have a chance to demo them in any powder unless I get very, very lucky.
 

SkiBam

Angel Diva
I've said it before, but I love my Yumis. I'm another petite person - skis are 147cm. I skied them most of last season, mainly at Tremblant where they did everything - hard pack (carve really well) and deeper snow too. I took them to Switzerland in March (Quatres Vallées region) and again, found them great. I think we smaller ladies can get by with less underfoot width as we don't tend to sink as much! Have to confess I never before met a Volkl I liked but the Yumis are now my one-ski quiver as I plan to sell my SuperJoys.
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
How do the Yumis hold up in powder, at least compared to other skis in the 84-94 width?

It depends on how well you already ski powder, and the depth of the powder. It's a versatile all-mountain ski, but I don't think of the Yumi as a "training wheels" ski that would help someone who rarely skis in >10" fresh snow improve in that condition.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Jackson Hogan just released part 2 of his blog post on Women's Skis. Part 1 is in the OP. Here it is in whole. If you've been watching the Rossignol women's marketing thread, be sure to note the entry in the first chart on Rossignol.

The State of the Women's Ski Market II

In 1993, there were 25 models of reputedly made-for-women skis entered in the Snow Country Magazine ski test. They were classified as "recreational," but a more accurate adjective would have been "dreadful." Not a single brand of the 18 represented was aiming at anyone above average ability. Our elite test crew regarded them with unvarnished contempt.

The reason no one tried to concoct a decent women's model was the prevailing attitude among ski makers that making a model specifically for good women skiers was a misbegotten enterprise. The men who designed skis were, of course, skiers themselves, and the women they skied with didn't ask for or want anything to do with a "women's ski." Nonetheless, the selection of women's skis continued to grow, soon adding a cadre of step-up, "performance" models that were still three rungs below the nearest race ski in any brand's collection.

I share this historical nugget as it establishes a baseline that in some aspects still exists today. Now as then, the best female skiers in the world are racers, an arena in which made-for-women skis simply do not exist. A hefty percentage of non-racing experts also prefer either a unisex ski or women's ski that's a virtual clone of a unisex model.

But unlike the situation 30 years ago, made-for-women models are no longer an exercise in condescension. Outside of the race world, they occupy every category and price point in the ski pantheon. The mind-blowing success of Blizzard's Black Pearl 88 has firmly established the viability of the made-for-women market. Just how much any given women's model has actually been adapted for the fairer sex is another matter, one this essay - and companion chart - intends to illuminate.

With your permission, I'm going to burn two minutes of your attention span by chatting about the attached chart (below). It's a nearly complete list of the women's models offered in the U.S. in 2020. For each model, it indicates what changes, if any, were made in comparison to any corresponding unisex model. Four design elements are examined: construction, materials, mounting position and sidecut. A model with "X's" across the board has been built from scratch to be a women's ski. Gray scale in lieu of an X means that this ski shares that feature with a unisex model.

The one trait that all women's models share is they come in shorter lengths. It's common practice to pare down the core thickness on shorter skis so the intended, lighter weight target skier can bend it. Because thinning the core profile is standard operating procedure that applies to any short ski, regardless of who it's sold to or how the topskin is decorated, this modification is treated as a given and so doesn't appear on this table. The same can be said for changes in sidecut geometry that are related to length, not gender per se.

What the table tells us is that most of the X's land on Technical and Frontside models and most of the gray scale spans across the All-Mountain East, All-Mountain West and Big Mountain genres. Among modifications, moving the mounting point forward (normally in the 1-2cm range) is by far the most common accommodation for women. As for more consequential alterations, changing a sidecut - and therefore the tooling - is less likely an adaptation than employing a modified construction and/or a switch in materials.

What the chart doesn't reveal is how much time and money each brand spends sorting through all the alternatives that might make a ski better for a lighter weight skier. Salomon, for example, maintains separate test crews for system skis and flat (wider) models, yet their testing often leads them to propose identical solutions for men and women. Nor does the chart cast any light on any given brand's future direction.

But the chart is clear on one point about the present: there are a lot of checked boxes and a lot of gray scale boxes, which exposes a schism in the current thinking about women's skis. On one side of the philosophical divide, empirically derived differentiation is deemed both good for the female skier and for the company that commits to it.

The other side of the argument hasn't changed since the days of the Snow Country ski test: the ski can't tell a good female skier from a good male skier, so why do women need different skis? If you want to adapt a model or two specifically for women who need training wheels, fine, but don't try to help skiers who neither need nor want any help.

Both of these perspectives are here to stay, as is the abundance of choices available across the women's market as a whole. If there's a category that could use shoring up, it's Women's Frontside, for which I have a simple, economical solution.

Instead of isolating the best, most adapted, hard-snow women's skis in the Technical genre that Americans eschew, make clones of the flagship women's model in 80mm and 84mm waists. I don't suggest anyone eliminate their current crop of diluted Frontside models that match the needs of intermediates, just add one or two strong skis geared for the advanced gal. They won't attract a lot of American women right away, perhaps, but it would be a step in the right direction. As things stand, American women are more or less obliged to "graduate" to an All-Mountain East model just to get a high performance women's ski.

Most likely the market for high performance, Frontside women's skis will remain small, but maybe not. Nobody saw the Black Pearl 88 coming, not even Blizzard. And it's been the top selling ski in America, regardless of gender affiliation, for the past four seasons.
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tinymoose

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
How do the Yumis hold up in powder, at least compared to other skis in the 84-94 width? I’m thinking about demoing these if I get a shot early in the year, but doubt I’ll have a chance to demo them in any powder unless I get very, very lucky.

Tbh, b/c I'm on the east coast, I've only seen any substantial amount of powder a handful of times, and I'm pretty atrocious at skiing in it. That being said, I would say they're no better and no worse than other skis I've tried in powder. I'm pretty sure the common thread between all the skis I've tried in powder is me... operator error. Other skis I've tried in powder... Black Pearl (88), Kenja (87), Kiku (107)... WAY TOO WIDE for my weight/size. The newer Yumis have a titanal band in them, and I did find them to bust through stuff and I get less tossed around than my old Yumis w/o the titanal band.
 

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