Of Boot Stiffness & Ankle Flexion

[santacruz skier]

great advice that I got years ago from Lito Tejada-Flores.

I watched so many DVD's of Lito's..... He totally made sense and I remember after watching one of his "powder" techniques (I'm not up on all the lingo), I was at Kirkwood and skied "The Wall" (a double black) using his techniques for powder . It worked. Too bad I no longer have a DVD player (maybe those were on VCR's which is even more antiquated)...

 

[BlizzardBabe]

Ok, maybe it is time to talk brands and numbers. Twelve or more years ago I was in the Lange Jr. Race boot. I loved those boots. When it came time to replace them I went to Bootworks in Park City on a recommendation. They fitted me w/the Lange XT90 which I've been skiing for the last 5 years or so. The XT90 has hike/ski modes that I rarely used. These are the boots that I was observed to be "squashing." I've really liked the boots (so comfortable - not a traditional Lange trait), but I can't say I ever felt the passionate love I had for my Jr. Race boots.

My current bootfitter explained some technical yada yada about the mechanics of the hike/ski modes and the advantages and disadvantages including, apparently, some limited sacrifice of finesse and control. I just purchased the Lange RX110 LV which is, essentially, the Lange race boot w/a slightly higher cuff, more comfy foot-bed, and heel and toe plates that won't cause me to kill myself while walking.

This, from @liquidfeet makes so much sense to me:

However, it's important to remember that it isn't the lower leg's pressure on the tongue that tilts the shovel downward. It's the lower leg's forward pull on the top of the spine (back of the boot) that does that. . . The more the lower leg tilts forward into the tongue without bringing the spine's tilt along with it, the less effect that lower-leg-tilting delivers to the ski.

As I noted before, I had no problems at all fully flexing the boot, albeit in a nice warm shop, but it does actually seem that the entire cuff is coming with me when I flex the RX110's (yes, I'm wearing them under the kitchen table as I write). I didn't get this sensation from my old boots. This leads me to believe that the XT90's were either too soft or something about the hike/ski option made them slightly less "a part of me" when flexing my ankles. I'm hoping that the flexion I apply in these boots will translate more immediately to the ski.

Does this make sense?

 

[mustski]

lol
But back to topic, I will be cautiously evaluating my new boots' 3 buckle design and softer flex, as compared to the old boots.

For the record ... I love the 3 buckle boots! The main thing is be careful on the buckling ... foot in, tap the heel. Tighten the top buckle and the strap, flex hard and then do up the ankle buckle just enough to hold you back and tighten the toe buckle just enough to hold the foot. It's easy to over tighten the ankle buckle and cut off circulation.

ETA: I have always had to pay premium for boots since I have difficult feet. I'm not too worried about Bud's prices; I'm just hoping he can fit me in something that works. Bob is getting new boots too so we are both seeing Bud. It will give us an excuse to ski Tahoe!

 

[badger]

Here is an interesting article. Kind of technical but informative.
Https:/skimoves.me/2014/04/16/ankle-glude-path-block/

 

[marzNC]

lol
But back to topic, I will be cautiously evaluating my new boots' 3 buckle design and softer flex, as compared to the old boots.

I'm thoroughly enjoying my 3-buckle boots (going on 4th season). Only slightly stiffer than the rec 4-buckle boots I had before. The 3-buckle model is the third pair of boots in 12 years, all the same brand. My boot fitter (last two pairs of boots) is local and was not about to put me in too stiff a boot since I'm petite and older, although pretty strong.

Today was Day 1 of the 2018-19 season. I was at Killington. In the morning, I didn't buckled the top buckle all the way on purpose. Started out on a couple groomers but also played on a few short bump runs. At some point, I tightened up the top buckle. Seemed somewhat easier to control the skis on bumps. Not that different on blue groomers, unless I was trying to do railroad tracks.

When I read Post #1 by @BlizzardBabe , the thought that popped into my head was Goldilocks. Meaning that boots should not be too soft, and not too stiff, but just right. Meaning when only considering flex, not all the other factors that go into a well-fitted boot. The flex should be appropriate for the way a skier is put together physically and in terms of technique and preferred terrain. For me, softer is better. Even more so as my sense of how little movements translate into easy turns even on steeper or more complex terrain. But that process has taken quite a few seasons of working with multiple instructors. Couldn't feel subtle differences Walter talked about in the multi-week program until more fundamentals were mastered.

Note: not an instructor or boot fitter. Just my opinion based on thinking back to my experience in the last 10-15 years moving from rear-entry boots to walk/ski to 4-buckle to 3-buckle.

 

[badger]

Sorry. That should be :. Https/skimoves.me/2014/04/16/ankle-glude-path-block/

 

[marzNC]

Here is an interesting article. Kind of technical but informative.
Https:/skimoves.me/2014/04/16/ankle-glude-path-block/

Correct URL is "glide"
https://skimoves.me/2014/04/16/ankle-glide-path-block/

 

[badger]

Glide-path-block. OMG...it keeps Auto correcting from my phone. So very sorry!!

 

[badger]

Thank you Marz.

 

[Skisailor]

I watched so many DVD's of Lito's..... He totally made sense and I remember after watching one of his "powder" techniques (I'm not up on all the lingo), I was at Kirkwood and skied "The Wall" (a double black) using his techniques for powder . It worked. Too bad I no longer have a DVD player (maybe those were on VCR's which is even more antiquated)...

You don't need a DVD player. I think his videos are now up on YouTube for free . . . .

 

[santacruz skier]

You don't need a DVD player. I think his videos are now up on YouTube for free . . . .

Really? It was nice seeing them on a tv monitor though rather than my 11 inch laptop. I'll have to check it out. Also read his books.... but that was years ago. Then no instruction for a couple decades until Taos last season.

 

[SallyCat]

I discovered Sunday that my boots (Lange Jr. race boots) stiffen considerably in the non-sunny cold. I found that I had to then pay more attention to what my upper body was doing in order to stay on top of the skis. I gave some extra thought to moving forward with my hips, really committing my whole body forward rather than just flexing my ankle. I also went to the bootfitter at the end of the day and had him put a Booster Strap on to get some flexibility at the top of the boot. Will see if that helps.

There are things I can do to soften the boots, but I like the way they feel when it's sunny and in the 30s and higher and don't want to over-soften.

 

[contesstant]

I discovered Sunday that my boots (Lange Jr. race boots) stiffen considerably in the non-sunny cold. I found that I had to then pay more attention to what my upper body was doing in order to stay on top of the skis. I gave some extra thought to moving forward with my hips, really committing my whole body forward rather than just flexing my ankle. I also went to the bootfitter at the end of the day and had him put a Booster Strap on to get some flexibility at the top of the boot. Will see if that helps.

There are things I can do to soften the boots, but I like the way they feel when it's sunny and in the 30s and higher and don't want to over-soften.

Ahh, those Booster Straps are going to do a lot more for you than just when it is cold! They are one of my favorite things that I can't imagine living without.

 

[contesstant]

Here is an interesting article. Kind of technical but informative.
Https:/skimoves.me/2014/04/16/ankle-glude-path-block/

OK, so where is the next article where he talks about what he does for it? I'm so curious!

 

[SallyCat]

Ahh, those Booster Straps are going to do a lot more for you than just when it is cold! They are one of my favorite things that I can't imagine living without.

The bootfitter put me in the "expert/racer" straps and when I balked and suggested the "intermediate" straps, he said that it had as much to do with body weight as ability. That gave me something to think about on the long, depressing car ride home.

 

[marzNC]

Really? It was nice seeing them on a tv monitor though rather than my 11 inch laptop. I'll have to check it out. Also read his books.... but that was years ago. Then no instruction for a couple decades until Taos last season.

I got Lito's Soft Skiing book when I started taking lessons. It was good to have had a few lessons, plus the experience of skiing on straight skis, to put his comments in perspective. One of the differences in that book was that he wrote it later in life. The subtitle says it all: "The Secrets of Effortless Low-Impact Skiing for Older Skiers." I would recommend it for intermediates who have been skiing for > 10 years and intend to keep skiing for another 10, 20, 30, 40+ years.

Didn't find Lito's videos or other books that useful. Remember that I'm a visual learner who doesn't really learn ski technique from reading. But do find it useful for a better understanding of what I've learned in person from very experienced instructors.

 

[liquidfeet]

....I had to then pay more attention to what my upper body was doing in order to stay on top of the skis. I gave some extra thought to moving forward with my hips, really committing my whole body forward rather than just flexing my ankle.....when I balked and suggested the "intermediate" straps, he said that it had as much to do with body weight as ability.....

^That is the golden key right there. Once you get your ankles flexed into the tongues, you then need to pay attention to how the shovel of the ski is pressing into the snow and control that. With ankles flexed forward, raising your hips UP moves your whole body, including those hips, forward so that it hovers over the fronts of the skis. At this point it's your body weight and momentum that then presses the shovel down onto the snow and bends it. (*Note: keep heels solidly in contact with boot sole so tails of skis won't wash out.)

Two sides of the same coin: focus on raising the hips upward (they will naturally go forward at the same time because you've tilted the shin forward relative to the skis), or focus on making the thigh angle more upright/vertical. Both are exactly the same movement, and both bring the body forward. Some people prefer thinking about doing one of those over the other. Move the hips up/fwd as needed to control that shovel's interaction with the snow during each turn. Also pay attention to the tail at the end of the turn; you may need to drop that hip more than expected to keep the tails from washing.

When the forces are strong at the apex of the turn, your body weight/momentum will press down on the skis as your shin presses hard into the tongue. If there's flexibility there, the tongue will move forward, absorbing and slowing down the applied pressure on the shovel. A Booster Strap makes that forward flex and application of forward pressure more "progressive" and less abrupt than the hard velcro power strap provided on most boots.

Of course, this is a generalized version of maintaining fore-aft balance that starts at the ankles. It doesn't take into account whatever long-leg-short-leg movement pattern one is using to control your turn radius and edge angles.

 

[marzNC]

Of course, this is a generalized version of maintaining fore-aft balance that starts at the ankles. It doesn't take into account whatever long-leg-short-leg movement pattern one is using to control your turn radius and edge angles.

I realize now that what I liked about the SkiA Sweetspot balance trainers (used mostly 2012-14) is that it allowed me to play around indoors to start feeling what different movements did. Obviously not the same as being on skis on a pitched slope, but still helpful. Especially after knee rehab when the idea of tipping sideways to get skis up on edge more was a bit daunting.

 

[VickiK]

The bootfitter put me in the "expert/racer" straps and when I balked and suggested the "intermediate" straps, he said that it had as much to do with body weight as ability. That gave me something to think about on the long, depressing car ride home.

I suspect this is part of the reason I was in 105 rated boot, and hence my concern of getting into a 95.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

I don't suppose you can attach Hotronic heaters to the Booster Strap? Is it stiff enough and/or would the heater cage interfere with performance?