Not pushing myself hard enough?

[floatingyardsale]

It's not what you ski, it's how you ski. Falling down a black diamond doesn't make her a better skier, just one that's more likely to get injured.

You, by contrast, behaved like a gracious friend and skied terrain that you and struggle friend could enjoy. It is fine to go at your own pace. Alta isn't going anywhere.

 

[Iwannaski]

What she said! What a downer! How insecure to shame someone else!

I missed your comment earlier @Abbi (before I posted mine) but YES THIS.

 

[brooksnow]

very willing to bomb down things, but also tends to be in the backseat, lift her ski to turn, etc.

So many people confuse speed and ability.
You can
1) ditch her or
2) if you want to keep her as a ski friend maybe suggest taking a lesson together with a professional who could teach her the difference (or at least try, some people refuse to be coached.)

 

[Knitjenious]

She is not your friend. Find someone else to ski with!!

This! ^^^

 

[Jilly]

A ski instructor saying....speed hides a multitude of sins....

Speed does not equate to better skiing.

 

[Tvan]

Is she a friend off the slopes? Does she show up when you need her when you're not on the hill? Do you enjoy time with her? If so, then it might be worth a conversation with her to tell her that her words and actions are hurtful. If not, then I would strongly consider whether this is a relationship worth keeping, because from your description, she sounds like a real jerk on the hill.

I'm in the slow, careful skier camp. Usually when I'm skiing, I'm the last one down the hill, and the slowest of the bunch. When I'm with friends, I prefer that we set a time to meet for breaks (10:30 at the mid-mountain lodge for a warm-up, for example) and ski by myself the rest of the time. I *hate* feeling like I'm slowing people down... so much so that I'd rather ski alone without the pressure.

That said, I'd be happy to ski with you, or just meet you at the lodge.

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

What. An. #######.

I'm totally with you - I'd rather mess around on the easiest trails with fun people all day long than ski with somebody like that.

You deserve better than that "friend."

 

[SquidWeaselYay]

A ski instructor saying....speed hides a multitude of sins....

Speed does not equate to better skiing.

Print that on a postcard and mail it to her house.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

She crashed 8 times and skis in the back seat, but you were faster in bumps and pow? Sounds like she is dangerous and out of control and misunderstood speed as a sign of a good skier, when the inability to control her speed shows that she is quite opposite and keeping her out of your safe space should be your priority.

Trust your own judgement in terms of when and where to push yourself with your own skiing. You may take a few more seasons to get there but I bet you will be skiing circles around her some day. Even if you don't, you'll not only look better (you probably already do) all while keeping the rest of safer for not skiing above your skill level where you know there is a 99 per cent probability of a successful outcome.

Knowing how to ski slowly is the key to going faster safely! Stick to your guns, amd your definition of fun and good skiing.

Taking the time with technique is pribably boring to her, but the best racers put in the work.

Arrrrghhhh, wish I could have her in a lesson and do some video analysis and bring her back to reality but that never really works.

 

[Iwannaski]

Arrrrghhhh, wish I could have her in a lesson and do some video analysis and bring her back to reality but that never really works.

You have to WANT to change to change…

 

[snoWYmonkey]

You have to WANT to change to change…

From the one side of the story we are reading I confess to not knowing if it is change I wish to bring about or a lesson I feel a need to teach...as in: "Hey lady, your skiing kinda sucks and you should maybe shut your pie hole! Oh and kindness works too by the way."

But I just expressed the opposite desire...ooops.

 

[Iwannaski]

@snoWYmonkey … first of all, I’d LOVE to come take a lesson from you. ASPIRATIONS!!!

I’m fascinated by this entire situation. for @SummerRunner … I think I’ve said in this forum before, that my son took to skis like a mountaineer, and my daughter swore she would never put on skis again after her first outing, in which she could LITERALLY do nothing.

I begged her to try one more time with a wide variety of other accomodations, and she did. She was an incredibly thorough and methodical learner. Cautious you might **almost** say to a fault. That apple did not fall far from its tree.

2 years later, guess who skis with incredible control and balance forward on her skis? And keeps up with her brother?

I guarantee you my son would say he’s better. And for 2 years, he was, kinda… but not really. I suspect he has some bad habits based on last year’s lesson. And she learned the good ones. And they’re kids, with a loving and well-resourced mom who will make sure they get the feedback and the resources to get better. But man, his lesson is going to be hard on him. And her lesson will be a blast.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

@Iwannaski maybe they are both right about being the better skier, just defining it differently? I sometimes reflect back on Bode Miller. Often skiing on the edge but when he kept it together he was the fastest. Not very often the cleanest or most precise skier to watch though.

As long as we are not too much of a menace to others, we get to choose what defines good I guess.

I have friends and colleagues that have skied some crazy lines, safely and in control, that I would never touch. From an instructor perspective they could use coaching, but do they need it? Not so sure as they are achieving their own objectives.

On the other hand Mikaela to me is both super smooth and technically precise and wicked fast. Sweet combo!

I hope your kids can both be happy with respective skills and abilities!

 

[Iwannaski]

Fair. But I saw him from the lift and he looked like he was sitting on a toilet.
I am PRETTY sure that’s not right.

Which, knowing the instructor I’m going to schedule him with - is likely to be pointed out immediately. I’m glad he is athletic and strong. I just want him to protect his body for years of fun on the slopes.

 

[SummerRunner]

Oh my goodness -- thank you so so much everyone for the support, I needed to hear it!!! For whatever reason my social circle involves a lot of very athletically accomplished and very competitive people, and I can feel like a weirdo in being more interested in fun than "winning". And then worry that maybe I'll never get to ski as much of the mountain as I'd like to because I don't have that kind of mentality. You have no idea how encouraging it is to know I'm not alone and that people who like to ski more conservatively and expand their boundaries bit by bit can still make progress!

In my friend's defense, she's always a bit like this, but she's going through some personal stuff that I think is making her worse than usual. The comments over the weekend were pretty rude even for her (hence why I was stewing over it enough to post here). But this is also a useful reality check that maybe it's time for me to set some harder boundaries until she's sorted herself out. Like many of you said, it's fine if she wants to split off to go ski harder stuff and be very proud of herself for doing so, but there's no reason for her to disparage what I or anyone else is skiing.

 

[SummerRunner]

Hello @SummerRunner !

Welcome! I'm new here too, just came a few days ago, but have found nothing but kindness, politeness and excellent/valuable advise from all the SkiDiva ladies, so I think you'll love it here too!

About your friend, here is my honest opinion, based on my own experiences:

I grew up in the world of classical ballet, which is an extremely strict world, requires full dedication, discipline, patience and being in it since first years of life, it creates extremely ambitious, competitive individuals. I am one of them, and an angry Russian director still lives in my brain telling me to work harder, do better, and excel always. I'm thankful to this upbringing since it taught me many excellent character qualities I apply in every aspect of life and my angry Russian director was actually kind pushing me because she believed in me. Ignoring me would've meant I didn't have a chance so I'm eternally grateful.

HOWEVER


You're in a setting where you are going to ski with friends. Your high level very skilled, competitive skier friend accepted to go skiing with her peers who might not be as skilled as her or not approach the sport in such a competitive, ambitious way as she clearly does. I think her attitude and behavior is quite wrong. As the most skilled person in a group she was not forced to join, went out of free will and in which she apparently has friends in, it is my honest, rational opinion she has two options here.
FIRST (most obvious) she behaves like a FRIEND first, puts her competitive, high skilled ambitious self on hold, and does nothing but encouraging, giving wise advise, constructive critique and offering support, which is, I believe, the "job" of any person who's worthy of being called friend. She roots for you, celebrates your improvement and helps you in areas you might struggle. Yes, she's not your coach, however, nobody needs to be official paid coach, to give helpful, beneficial advise to someone who's less skilled at something you excel.

SECOND (unfortunate) she cannot deal with peers who cannot keep her same pace or not have the same advanced skillset as she does, it annoys her, she gets impatient and wants to use the time to do her own advanced/expert skiing. Good, so be honest and in a polite way, she apologizes to all parties in the group saying she will go skiing on her own and maybe later she meets the other peers for some schnapps.

NEVER, EVER does she have any right to demean, patronize, use condescending tone and humiliate her PEERS.
As a competitive, ambitious person myself (nowhere close to being expert/advanced skier, but I am one in my job/occupation), it is my responsibility to either encourage, support and lead my junior coworkers in a way they improve and excel too, and in personal life, if I accept out of free will to be part of a setting that not everyone will be like me, I'm also accepting a responsibility to behave well, get along and never humiliate anyone.

Proposed solution: If you believe this lady is worthy of keeping as a friend for whatever reason, I suggest an open, blatantly honest conversation is a very calm, polite tone, but explaining in detailed manner how this behaviour is unacceptable. If the lady appreciates your friendship as you appreciate hers, she will think hard, analyze and behave appropriately next time.
If not, it's best to keep in mind this unfortunate events with this person, stick with peers who would never treat you or anyone else this way.

I'm very sorry for the lenghty reply!

I appreciate you taking the time to make the lengthy reply, lots of good advice here! I've never done anything as strenuous as classical ballet training, but your angry Russian director voice reminds me of my grad school experience -- the professors could be brutal, but it was because the field is really competitive and they wanted you to succeed. No feedback or vague "It's fine" feedback meant they didn't think you were worth the time to actually critique. Like you said, that kind of rigor and drive can be useful in a lot of ways, but it can also be counterproductive at times. It took me a while (and honestly some therapy) to learn that I wasn't a failure if I didn't hold myself to similarly high standards in my hobbies. I think part of why the competitive comments get to me is that I'm a recovering perfectionist.

 

[shadoj]

Haha, and you're still a perfectionist when it comes to technique, but not at the expense of fun! I'm willing to hang with anyone willing to practice and learn and laugh at themselves while they grow. You're totally my kind of Diva!

 

[CyberLola]

' it's fine if she wants to split off to go ski harder stuff and be very proud of herself for doing so, but there's no reason for her to disparage what I or anyone else is skiing.

PRECISELY.

One can remain with their competitive nature and direct this trait for their own benefit while also accepting that not everyone else near might have this same trait, and it's not productive to hurt them and humiliate them. What if someone who is much, much better than her appeared and behaved towards her the same way she behaved towards you? There's always people who are much better than us in any field, and I think she'd be sad if that happened.

 

[CyberLola]

I appreciate you taking the time to make the lengthy reply, lots of good advice here! I've never done anything as strenuous as classical ballet training, but your angry Russian director voice reminds me of my grad school experience -- the professors could be brutal, but it was because the field is really competitive and they wanted you to succeed. No feedback or vague "It's fine" feedback meant they didn't think you were worth the time to actually critique. Like you said, that kind of rigor and drive can be useful in a lot of ways, but it can also be counterproductive at times. It took me a while (and honestly some therapy) to learn that I wasn't a failure if I didn't hold myself to similarly high standards in my hobbies. I think part of why the competitive comments get to me is that I'm a recovering perfectionist.

Thank you very much for your follow up!

Yessss, even though I professionally don't belong to that world any longer, Ive transferred all these character traits that grew in me as I was growing up to all other aspects of life. I'm like this in my cyber security occupation, in my German language lessons & skiing too, of course. Pros? I'm in constant competition with myself, do not give up, spend time getting educated in all areas of an specific skill, love researching several ways I can optimize skills and keep improving/evolving, while also conscious that the more I know, the more I realize there's a world of things that I still don't know and I'm eternal learner, which I find fascinating and exciting.
Cons? Stress, 24 hour/365 days of impostor syndrome, maximum self criticism, time spent celebrating achievement much less than time already thinking next improvement.

Reading more above your friend in your other post above, it seems she's going through difficult situations in her life that migth make her even more impatient with other and behave in a more atypical way, hence the humiliating, demeaning tone & remarks.

While protecting yourself from having to deal with toxic, unnecessary negativity even if it is temporary, you can support your friend going through difficulty by being with her until her situation improves and in the meantime go skiing alone or with the other lady who won't treat you badly and be good skiing peer.

 

[Pequenita]

Find better people to ski with, and if you still want to hang out with the original group, tell them you’ll sync up with them for apres or dinner or whatever.

It doesn’t sound like fun to ski with that group.