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Not pushing myself hard enough?

SummerRunner

Diva in Training
Hi fellow divas!

I've been a long-time reader, but this is my first post! I started skiing a few years ago (early 30s). Initially I lived in the Bay Area and would go to Tahoe a couple times a year and crash down the greens/blues. Then a couple years ago we moved to Salt Lake City and my job has been kind enough to let me take PTO to do Ladies Day at Alta for a couple seasons, so I've gone from struggling on blue groomers to feeling pretty okay on easy to moderate off-trail black terrain -- think easier stuff off the High T.

While I'm happy with my progress, I feel very self-conscious about the fact that I'm not a fast skier and that I still get nervous on harder terrain. Having good form makes me feel better, and I'm still working on staying forward in certain situations, so I'll often ski areas that aren't quite at my limit so that I can focus more on technique, even though I'm pretty sure I could survival ski down more impressive runs.

Everyone else I ski with (outside of training programs) skis way faster and more confidently than me, and a handful have a tendency to be really condescending, and it makes me feel like maybe I haven't improved. The worst was this weekend -- I was skiing with a female friend who has 10 years of skiing experience on me and is very willing to bomb down things, but also tends to be in the backseat, lift her ski to turn, etc. We skied most of the same runs; she would finish a few seconds ahead of me most of the time but also crashed about 8 times (powder day so no big deal), I went slower but didn't fall at all. In some areas (bumps, heavier snow) I tended to be a little faster than her. We ran into some other friends, one of whom was struggling quite a bit on the runs we were on, and when my friend suggested we go ski something even harder, I said I'd prefer to do more laps where we were. Struggling woman stayed with me, my friend went off with the other woman (who is the strongest of all of us). I had some of the best runs of my day pitching things out for the other lady, really focusing on linking turns in powder (a new skill for me) between sections. I was grinning ear to ear until I met up with my original friend and she commented, "Oh, it's so great you found someone at YOUR LEVEL to ski with!" (that person being the woman who was struggling so hard), and then talking about how the run she'd done would be a double black diamond if Alta flagged them and how it's so cool that she's a REAL skier now, the implication being that I'm still a beginner.

This same friend is allergic to blue runs, as though she's afraid she's going to lose her "real skier" card if she touches blue terrain even if a stand of trees or whatever is nicer than a black run nearby, so I know I shouldn't take anything she says too seriously, but it really got to me. Maybe I am hampering myself by being too much of a coward and not forcing myself to survival ski more? There was tons of fresh snow the day we were skiing so it's not like I was going to get hurt if I fell, but on the other hand even a lot of the runs I DID do off the High T that day were new to me. So I pushed myself some. And I was so proud of myself for doing them, and it stung a lot to hear them brushed off as "easy" and "not meaningful". Overall I hate being such a coward and get frustrated that my friends (even my female friends!) seem to see everything as a competition -- who skied the hardest run? Who goes fastest? Feeling proud of linking turns where I haven't been able to in the past or of checking my ego and mostly sticking to terrain where I can practice good form or focusing on what is FUN on a given day is starting to feel like a liability -- like I should be ashamed if I consider anything but the steepest, most aggressive runs "fun". I know I need to just ignore them, but it's hard when I think there's a kernel of truth to me just being too timid a person for skiing to ever really be a fit, and there being something pathetic about how much effort I put into improving just to still be worse than almost everyone I ski with :/
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
There is nothing wrong with you, she is the problem and sounds very toxic to your mountain enjoyment. You said it yourself, you were happy and grinning ear to ear with your day until she returned and made you second guess your own fun and experiences.

I wouldn’t ski with someone who harshed my stoke, the ski season and life overall is just too short! I imagine skiing isn’t the only area this person finds the need to try and one up others?? Ski with those who bring you joy on the mountain, skiing by yourself would also be better than the description of this “friend”.

I’ve been skiing for 15 years now, still find plenty to work on and do so constantly with lessons and practice. Part of the fun of skiing for me is trying to be better so I can feel more comfortable on the terrain I want to ski. I have lots and lots to improve on, but the only competition is with myself. From some amazing high level instructors I know, who have skied since they were small children, this can be a lifelong pursuit! I like greens all the way up to double diamond bumps and chutes if the conditions are right. When I ski with those who are more junior to skiing I have a blast with them and never have any problem skiing whatever terrain they are happy on. I’ll either ski slower or go ahead a little and stop at the next junction or lift to catch back up. It’s not a contest, and it’s usually way more about the social company than skiing some agenda of trails to me when out with friends. It can be worthwhile to ski with people who push you outside of your comfort zone a bit, but only if it’s in a happy/safe/supportive manner and not at all like what you’re describing. I ski with some friends who are way better and faster skiers than me as well, and they never make me feel bad about it and waiting at the lift to meet back up etc.
 
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NewEnglandSkier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
With friends like her, who needs enemies?
Anyway, you should ski at whatever pace and terrain you feel comfortable with. It sounds like you are definitely progressing. It is a win to be able to link turns where you couldn't before etc. If she doesn't see that then I'd say I'd likely not want to ski with her again as clearly your goals are very different and she doesn't seem willing or able to appreciate your goals.
That's what is great about skiing---it doesn't need to be a head to head competition. Everyone can focus on their own interests and goals--and those goals need not be to ski nothing but blacks.
 

RJ*

Angel Diva
I don’t ski with competitive people. Period. The minute I sense a bigger than normal ego, I bail and go find someone else to ski with, or ski alone. I also really dislike thinking of skiing in terms of levels. People are all different, with diverse strengths and weaknesses, different personalities and preferences, not to speak of on or off days.
Follow your smile! That’s your guide right there. If you’re not smiling, find someone else to ski with.
 

ForTheKidsSkiMom

Certified Ski Diva
Hi, don’t let anyone bring you down … sounds like a buzzkill. It is human nature to compare oneself to others, but think about shifting your mindset, on who, and how you compare yourself. When you think about all the skiers in the world, of course, there will always be people better than you, and the other direction is also true … people not as skilled. People who are too cautious to try skiing, even if they have the means to do so. Put it in the greater perspective. Surround yourself with skiers who lift you up and support you and want to have a good time. You do you. Good luck
 

edelweissmaedl

Angel Diva
This person sounds pretty immature. You have the maturity to know you can always improve and opt out of overterraining yourself in lieu of practicing and focusing on form. Am I always my most coachable self? Definitely, not:smile: But the person willing to practice and keep learning is leaps and bounds above someone measuring themselves by the wrong benchmarks (color on a sign at the start of a slope).

To quote a level 3 instructor, no one is an 'expert'. Everyone still has something to learn.
 
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Iwannaski

Angel Diva
OP: your friend sounds both like a dick and not a friend. I feel like she thought Mean Girls was a user manual for life. EW.

I’m fairly conservative when I ski. I’m working on speed, and terrain progress, but only so that I can keep up with and enjoy time with my kids while keeping my middle aged mom bod intact. LOL.

NO ONE that I ski with (except maybe my 14 year old son) gives me a hard time about my speed, and even he’s very gentle with it and we have fun “racing” and he tries to figure out different ways to look bored at the bottom so that we can laugh - if we even ski together. My dear friend we go skiing with just acknowledges that I’m more conservative and we just separate and meet for lunch.

I think skiing is supposed to be fun. Sure you could survival ski, but would you enjoy it? Some people might! You might not! If it isn’t fun for you, don’t do it. So, if she’s going to make comments, I’d say you can either mute her comments in your brain or stop hearing her comments by no longer skiing with her.

My mom always used to say, “bodies can grow old without the brain getting more mature” (or something to that effect, because it was in a different language… LOL.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Lots of good sentiments have been posted here already but I am still shaking my head at those condescending comments. What a child that woman is. Maybe she's just immature and thoughtless and not someone that makes it a point to try to make others feel bad, but still, I have to think in SLC there are many people you can ski with that won't make you feel bad for just having fun.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
SummerRunner, I'm sorry you're dealing with someone so obtuse and immature.

Some people need a "unit of measurement" to gauge their own ability. In skiing this often takes the form of being the fastest or being able to get down the double black diamonds. Neither of these things are a good way to measure ability.... unless you're ski racing, then fastest actually does count.

Be proud of YOUR accomplishments and YOUR progress. This your skiing journey, you can define it in any way YOU want. Sounds like you have a lot of be proud of. Keep focusing on those moments. Surround yourself with skiers that lift you up, not knock you down...even if that's skiing solo, and you can focus on yourself without the peanut gallery.

I love this advice:
So, if she’s going to make comments, I’d say you can either mute her comments in your brain or stop hearing her comments by no longer skiing with her.
 

AJM

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Good Lord she sounds AWFUL !!
You stick to your guns girl and ski whatever you feel comfortable skiing and skiing it well and leave her to charge around like an out of control elephant rolling down the hill !
I had a skiing buddy like that many years ago who always put me down although I did have many people reassure me that I was actually the better skier and not to let her get to me .... needless to say we are NOT friends anymore :laughter:
 

CyberLola

Certified Ski Diva
Hello @SummerRunner !

Welcome! I'm new here too, just came a few days ago, but have found nothing but kindness, politeness and excellent/valuable advise from all the SkiDiva ladies, so I think you'll love it here too!

About your friend, here is my honest opinion, based on my own experiences:

I grew up in the world of classical ballet, which is an extremely strict world, requires full dedication, discipline, patience and being in it since first years of life, it creates extremely ambitious, competitive individuals. I am one of them, and an angry Russian director still lives in my brain telling me to work harder, do better, and excel always. I'm thankful to this upbringing since it taught me many excellent character qualities I apply in every aspect of life and my angry Russian director was actually kind pushing me because she believed in me. Ignoring me would've meant I didn't have a chance so I'm eternally grateful.

HOWEVER


You're in a setting where you are going to ski with friends. Your high level very skilled, competitive skier friend accepted to go skiing with her peers who might not be as skilled as her or not approach the sport in such a competitive, ambitious way as she clearly does. I think her attitude and behavior is quite wrong. As the most skilled person in a group she was not forced to join, went out of free will and in which she apparently has friends in, it is my honest, rational opinion she has two options here.
FIRST (most obvious) she behaves like a FRIEND first, puts her competitive, high skilled ambitious self on hold, and does nothing but encouraging, giving wise advise, constructive critique and offering support, which is, I believe, the "job" of any person who's worthy of being called friend. She roots for you, celebrates your improvement and helps you in areas you might struggle. Yes, she's not your coach, however, nobody needs to be official paid coach, to give helpful, beneficial advise to someone who's less skilled at something you excel.

SECOND (unfortunate) she cannot deal with peers who cannot keep her same pace or not have the same advanced skillset as she does, it annoys her, she gets impatient and wants to use the time to do her own advanced/expert skiing. Good, so be honest and in a polite way, she apologizes to all parties in the group saying she will go skiing on her own and maybe later she meets the other peers for some schnapps.

NEVER, EVER does she have any right to demean, patronize, use condescending tone and humiliate her PEERS.
As a competitive, ambitious person myself (nowhere close to being expert/advanced skier, but I am one in my job/occupation), it is my responsibility to either encourage, support and lead my junior coworkers in a way they improve and excel too, and in personal life, if I accept out of free will to be part of a setting that not everyone will be like me, I'm also accepting a responsibility to behave well, get along and never humiliate anyone.

Proposed solution: If you believe this lady is worthy of keeping as a friend for whatever reason, I suggest an open, blatantly honest conversation is a very calm, polite tone, but explaining in detailed manner how this behaviour is unacceptable. If the lady appreciates your friendship as you appreciate hers, she will think hard, analyze and behave appropriately next time.
If not, it's best to keep in mind this unfortunate events with this person, stick with peers who would never treat you or anyone else this way.

I'm very sorry for the lenghty reply!
 

Luvs2ski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Wow, women can be brutal. Skiing is supposed to be fun; I can’t stand when others have to make it a competitive thing or put someone down if you didn’t ski the toughest terrain. However, some just have to make everything a competition and that can be a fun suck. I would certainly not ski with that “friend” again …. Sounds like you had way more fun without her! I love to ski trails with good conditions ….don’t care if that is black, blue, green …skiing is my outlet, it’s my time to have fun. Sure, a challenge is fun, but I do it when I feel up to it and because I want to and not to prove anything to anyone but myself! Have fun out there ….and keep finding days out there that make you smile!!
 

AJM

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This same friend is allergic to blue runs, as though she's afraid she's going to lose her "real skier" card if she touches blue terrain even if a stand of trees or whatever is nicer than a black run nearby

My husband who is an expert skier (skied off Mt Cook in NZ etc etc ) is just as happy blasting around on the blue runs if the more challenging terrain isnt skiing well due to conditions. His theory is that you find the nicest snow then ski that, even if it isnt a black/double black its about having fun :ski:
 

bsskier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I’ll ski with you! In fact, I haven’t been up to the High Traverse at Alta. I’m a bit intimidated! Will you show me?

I have had close to your experience and it got to me for a couple seasons. Don’t let their clout chasing persona exhaust you. Ski where you want and have fun, even if that’s alone.
 

Mudgirl630

Angel Diva
Hi fellow divas!

I've been a long-time reader, but this is my first post! I started skiing a few years ago (early 30s). Initially I lived in the Bay Area and would go to Tahoe a couple times a year and crash down the greens/blues. Then a couple years ago we moved to Salt Lake City and my job has been kind enough to let me take PTO to do Ladies Day at Alta for a couple seasons, so I've gone from struggling on blue groomers to feeling pretty okay on easy to moderate off-trail black terrain -- think easier stuff off the High T.

While I'm happy with my progress, I feel very self-conscious about the fact that I'm not a fast skier and that I still get nervous on harder terrain. Having good form makes me feel better, and I'm still working on staying forward in certain situations, so I'll often ski areas that aren't quite at my limit so that I can focus more on technique, even though I'm pretty sure I could survival ski down more impressive runs.

Everyone else I ski with (outside of training programs) skis way faster and more confidently than me, and a handful have a tendency to be really condescending, and it makes me feel like maybe I haven't improved. The worst was this weekend -- I was skiing with a female friend who has 10 years of skiing experience on me and is very willing to bomb down things, but also tends to be in the backseat, lift her ski to turn, etc. We skied most of the same runs; she would finish a few seconds ahead of me most of the time but also crashed about 8 times (powder day so no big deal), I went slower but didn't fall at all. In some areas (bumps, heavier snow) I tended to be a little faster than her. We ran into some other friends, one of whom was struggling quite a bit on the runs we were on, and when my friend suggested we go ski something even harder, I said I'd prefer to do more laps where we were. Struggling woman stayed with me, my friend went off with the other woman (who is the strongest of all of us). I had some of the best runs of my day pitching things out for the other lady, really focusing on linking turns in powder (a new skill for me) between sections. I was grinning ear to ear until I met up with my original friend and she commented, "Oh, it's so great you found someone at YOUR LEVEL to ski with!" (that person being the woman who was struggling so hard), and then talking about how the run she'd done would be a double black diamond if Alta flagged them and how it's so cool that she's a REAL skier now, the implication being that I'm still a beginner.

This same friend is allergic to blue runs, as though she's afraid she's going to lose her "real skier" card if she touches blue terrain even if a stand of trees or whatever is nicer than a black run nearby, so I know I shouldn't take anything she says too seriously, but it really got to me. Maybe I am hampering myself by being too much of a coward and not forcing myself to survival ski more? There was tons of fresh snow the day we were skiing so it's not like I was going to get hurt if I fell, but on the other hand even a lot of the runs I DID do off the High T that day were new to me. So I pushed myself some. And I was so proud of myself for doing them, and it stung a lot to hear them brushed off as "easy" and "not meaningful". Overall I hate being such a coward and get frustrated that my friends (even my female friends!) seem to see everything as a competition -- who skied the hardest run? Who goes fastest? Feeling proud of linking turns where I haven't been able to in the past or of checking my ego and mostly sticking to terrain where I can practice good form or focusing on what is FUN on a given day is starting to feel like a liability -- like I should be ashamed if I consider anything but the steepest, most aggressive runs "fun". I know I need to just ignore them, but it's hard when I think there's a kernel of truth to me just being too timid a person for skiing to ever really be a fit, and there being something pathetic about how much effort I put into improving just to still be worse than almost everyone I ski with :/
Ditch that narcissistic self-centered person now.

You do what you want when you want where you want because you are skiing to have fun.
You are doing great to up your skills. She is being the concrete shoes for this exciting adventure called skiing.

Unfortunately, this world is full of this type of person. Be very selective with whom you spend your time. When I started to ski and spending a lot of time learning, I also had this person. She thought she was a great skiier. She was down right insulting and rude to me. I ditched her like a hot potatoe after saying some incredibly rude things to me for the second time. A stranger who was standing near us heard it. She said to me "do not let her put you down" right in front of her. I knew then, without any doubt, this so called friend was so rude to me. I was doing my best learning and trying to be a best skiier. She has been skiing for a long time by that time.

Everyone is different. It is okay to be scared sometimes. It is okay to take your time to learn to get better. Don't let her spoil your experience in getting better at skiing. Enjoy it. If not, what is the point of doing it.
 
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Iwannaski

Angel Diva
After thinking about this a while, she sounds classically insecure.
I suspect you’re better than her at a lot of things and this is her way of making HERSELF feel better.

Doesn’t change any of the advice. She does not deserve your time. BUT it’s just for you to know it has NOTHING to do with your ability or choices. It’s allllll about her (obviously, because she needs it to be… *eyeroll*)
 

Mudgirl630

Angel Diva
Wow, women can be brutal. Skiing is supposed to be fun; I can’t stand when others have to make it a competitive thing or put someone down if you didn’t ski the toughest terrain. However, some just have to make everything a competition and that can be a fun suck. I would certainly not ski with that “friend” again …. Sounds like you had way more fun without her! I love to ski trails with good conditions ….don’t care if that is black, blue, green …skiing is my outlet, it’s my time to have fun. Sure, a challenge is fun, but I do it when I feel up to it and because I want to and not to prove anything to anyone but myself! Have fun out there ….and keep finding days out there that make you smile!!
Well put. Exactly!
 

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