New skis and boots have me struggling!

[AHendrickx]

I just got new skis and new boots and got to take them out for the first time yesterday but felt like I took two giant steps back with my progress....I felt as though I really struggled to maintain proper form and when I did I got some serious quad burn which I have never had while skiing.

For some background I am a very new skier I have skied for the past 6-7 weeks 1 day/week for about 3-4 hours each time. I skied one season when I was 7 so I don’t count that really since I’m 30 now. I am 5’6” and bought 156 cm k2 anthem 76 skis. I had been on 140 cm elan element rentals but wanted something I could grow into and have for a couple of years at least. I just didn’t expect to struggle so much. I expected to have to get used to the longer length but didn’t expect to struggle to stay in a good stance.

I did go to a boot fitter and get fitted for boots and ended up with molded food beds and some heel lifts d/t poor dorsal flexion. I have bad ankles from years of cheerleading so this didn’t surprise me. I’m in a 90 flex boot which seemed high but I’m heavier (178 lbs) and relatively athletic. I have worked out regularly for years regularly doing the peloton bike, weights and yoga. When I got boots it was between this one and a 75 flex but the 75 flex was very loose on me and didn’t feel like it secured my heel at all which he didn’t like.

Did I bite off more than I can chew or is this normal? i know I need to get used to going faster with longer skis but this is all a new world to me so I just want to be sure I really just need to power through!

 

[Christy]

I got some serious quad burn which I have never had while skiing.

If you've never had this before and have it with new gear, your boots may have too much forward lean, or, those new heel lifts may be pushing you too far forward, which forces you to sit back to keep your balance. Try just removing the heel lifts and see if that resolves the problem. If not, get back in contact with the bootfitter. Something is going on s/he should be able to fix. Be clear to them you haven't had this issue before. They can make your boots more upright (by removing any spoiler, for example). Did they have you stand on your skis when they did the fitting? Sometimes skis have a lot of binding ramp angle and that needs to be taken into account. But first do take out the lifts and try that. That's info they need to know.

Another possibility is that the boots are a little too big. Just that tiny bit of extra movement can make your quads burn. I have struggled with all of this. My liners are packing out and when its cold and my feet are smaller, I am starting to get the quad burn again due to just a little bit of foot movement. I skied last week when it was spring like and my feet were warm and kind of swollen, and my boots fit super snug and I didn't have the burn.

 

[AHendrickx]

If you've never had this before and have it with new gear, your boots may have too much forward lean, or, those new heel lifts may be pushing you too far forward, which forces you to sit back to keep your balance. Try just removing the heel lifts and see if that resolves the problem.

I will try this tomorrow- I didn’t stand on my skis so this may be part of it. I had resort rental boots before these which were a lot more roomy but still didn’t get the quad burn so it could be the heel lifts. i feel as though my feet to get smaller in cold too though they didn’t seem to move too much in my boot... not compared to the rental at least maybes just a little forward but I may need to secure my heel/ankle more too.

 

[Jilly]

There could be a physiological aspect here too in the longer length of ski. But I'm more inclined to think it's the difference in the boots. Something is not right. OH....your feet should NOT move in your boots. If they do, then the boot is too big or it's not the right geometry.

 

[Iwannaski]

Did you try the balance check in your skis of jumping on a flat spot? I find that when I have a struggle run, that check really helps me do a fast self-assessment of my setup. When I’m nervous about something, I am off balance. I stop, breathe and jump until I’m in the right position. If you can’t get to the right position, something about your new setup is throwing you off balance?

I’m a newer skier as well... and one of the ski patrol guys at one of our local hills gave me that as a check when I was anxious about a newer slope. He said if I couldn’t do 3 balanced hops, I needed to get myself reset so that I would be ok.

When you say your resort rentals were “roomy” ... what do you mean? Along which axis? By your feet? Toes? Ankles? Calves?

 

[AHendrickx]

There could be a physiological aspect here too in the longer length of ski. But I'm more inclined to think it's the difference in the boots. Something is not right. OH....your feet should NOT move in your boots. If they do, then the boot is too big or it's not the right geometry.

When I tried on boots these seemed to be the most snug to my foot... if things don’t pan out I will have to take them back for sure

 

[liquidfeet]

I will try this tomorrow- I didn’t stand on my skis so this may be part of it. I had resort rental boots before these which were a lot more roomy but still didn’t get the quad burn so it could be the heel lifts. i feel as though my feet to get smaller in cold too though they didn’t seem to move too much in my boot... not compared to the rental at least maybes just a little forward but I may need to secure my heel/ankle more too.

Tough love ahead.

ANY movement of the foot inside the boot is bad. Before too much time goes by, take those boots back and complain that your heel/ankle is moving. Please do this. Please. Boot fit needs to be SNUG. Do not allow them to glue stuff to the outside of your liners to fill the air spaces. Demand new boots that actually fit. They should be tight, as in, really tight, as you stand and walk around in the shop, without any added stuff glued in them. The boot fitter can grind out cavities in the shell, or warm the plastic and punch it outward, to make room for any parts of your foot that press too hard on the shell. This is bootfitting 101.

So repeating, your new replacement boots should be TIGHT, as in, more tight than you can believe will ever work for you. Ask to see the manager if the boot person isn't willing to work with you on this. Please do this. New boots should not be loose, not at all. They should be "too tight" until the liners pack out and they become just right. If you keep these boots and allow them to add stuff to the liner to fill in the slop, your quads will continue to hurt, and you will not have control over your skis. You will think you are at fault, and you may learn to hate skiing.

Why am I so sure? Why am I coming on so strong with this?

Because you are a novice skier, a first time boot buyer, and your words clearly describe boots that are too big. The other reason I am coming on so strong with such certainty is because most people buying boots for the first time tend to get boots too big. But they don't realize it and go for years struggling when boots that fit would have helped them control their skis without quad burn and fear. You realize it may be the boots. You are ahead of the game and have come here for advice. So I'm not holding back.

I am so tired of boot sellers doing this to beginners, and especially to beginner women. So tired.

 

[Knitjenious]

Editing to say: listen to @liquidfeet who is much smarter at ski things than me! But I still commiserate with your journey!

Hey @AHendrickx! I am in a pretty similar position as you in that I am a newer skier (skiing about the amount you describe for the last 3 seasons), am on the heavier side, and had some serious burning legs my first trip out in new boots a week and a half ago, despite having been fit by a bootfitter!

The first thing I did was adjust down the adjustable cuff profile on my boots (a feature they came with, made the back of the boot lower) That got rid of the thigh burn and now I feel good when I am actually skiing. But I am still getting calf burn when I am standing around or, for example, riding the magic carpet with my daughter for a warmup. So since the season is about to end for us here, my plan is to do some daily stretching to try to increase my flexibility and if I still have calf burn come next season, I will go back to the fitter.

I agree with the above poster who said try taking out the heel lifts and see if it helps! My thigh burn was definitely me overcompensating for my boots leaning me too far forward.

 

[marzNC]

I did go to a boot fitter and get fitted for boots and ended up with molded food beds and some heel lifts d/t poor dorsal flexion.

Welcome! Sorry the first day with new gear didn't go well. What region are you skiing in?

How long did you spend with the boot fitter? Also wondering how many pairs of boots he had you try on.

If you haven't already, check out the tips in Gearipedia about boot fitting.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/why-you-yes-you-need-a-boot-fitting.2075/

 

[liquidfeet]

....I am 5’6” and bought 156 cm k2 anthem 76 skis. I had been on 140 cm elan element rentals but wanted something I could grow into and have for a couple of years at least....
Did I bite off more than I can chew or is this normal? i know I need to get used to going faster with longer skis but this is all a new world to me so I just want to be sure I really just need to power through!

No you don't. The length of the skis does not determine how fast you go. 156 is probably just fine for you.

If you were unable to control your speed, and were in the back seat which causes the quad burn, it's probably your boots that are causing the problem. You might be in the back seat because of those heel lifts, but it could also be something else. It could be because your usual way of controlling your speed wasn't working, and that feeling of insecurity sent your body back. This is normal. If the boots are loose in any dimension, you will have difficulty controlling the skis, no matter how long they are. So I'm still thinking it's the boots.

It could, mayyyyyybe, be the ski tune. Just a thought. New skis do not always have an optimal tune on them. They should, but sometimes they don't.

However, because boots are so expensive, and a new tune on the skis is not, I'd go back to the shop and deal with the boots first before using them longer and trying to fix the problem by reworking the ski's tune.

 

[liquidfeet]

When I tried on boots these seemed to be the most snug to my foot... if things don’t pan out I will have to take them back for sure

Did the boot seller take the liners out and have you stand in the boots without the liner? If yes, did the bootseller show you how much space there was behind your heel? Did the bootseller discuss the "volume" of this boot? How about the width? Boots are sized with different widths and volumes, not just lengths. The length might be right but the volume or width could be off, causing the forefoot or heel to wobble around. Even a tiny amount of wobble will translate into much more wobble in the skis.

 

[AHendrickx]

Did you try the balance check in your skis of jumping on a flat spot? I find that when I have a struggle run, that check really helps me do a fast self-assessment of my setup. When I’m nervous about something, I am off balance. I stop, breathe and jump until I’m in the right position. If you can’t get to the right position, something about your new setup is throwing you off balance?

I’m a newer skier as well... and one of the ski patrol guys at one of our local hills gave me that as a check when I was anxious about a newer slope. He said if I couldn’t do 3 balanced hops, I needed to get myself reset so that I would be ok.

When you say your resort rentals were “roomy” ... what do you mean? Along which axis? By your feet? Toes? Ankles? Calves?

My rentals were so roomy that I could feel my heal coming off the footbed on the chairlift and could move the front of my foot side to side. The size below was too small... I have a weirdly long second toe and it was crumpling up on me I told the boot fitter this which is why we went with the 26.5 not the 25.5 but now I’m wondering if we should have sizes down...

 

[AHendrickx]

When you say your resort rentals were “roomy” ... what do you mean? Along which axis? By your feet? Toes? Ankles? Calves?

I have never tried the balance check so I will try that. My rentals were very roomy to the point I could feel my heel lift off the foot bed on the chair lift. I had gotten the size down but I have a strange extra long second toe and it was crushed in the size 7 rentals so I stuck with the 8’s and that was a big reason for getting my own

 

[AHendrickx]

Tough love ahead.

tough love appreciated!! I will go back to the boot fitter this week. He was very attentive and spent about 45 minutes with me. What I have were the most snug he had me try on but maybe I need to go a size down. he did tell me to come back if anything wasn’t right. He did also say sometimes they need to be adjusted and sometimes it’s the wrong boot but not to hesitate to come back if it didn’t feel right. He did make it a point to focus on my heel and ankle and told me to not focus on much else bc he could grind out the boot or punch it out if needed. I did tell him my second toe was my issue in the (men’s) size 7rentals bc it is so much longer than my big toe so I don’t know why we started with the 26.5. But I will go back for sure!

 

[AHendrickx]

Welcome! Sorry the first day with new gear didn't go well. What region are you skiing in?

How long did you spend with the boot fitter? Also wondering how many pairs of boots he had you try on.

If you haven't already, check out the tips in Gearipedia about boot fitting.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/why-you-yes-you-need-a-boot-fitting.2075/

I tried on 4 pairs and the fitting was about 45 minutes total. I had a foot scan he had me flex my feet, March in place then stand still, flex in my boots a bunch and asked a ton of questions about what my foot felt like in the boot I’m in NH

 

[liquidfeet]

Where in NH? Who did you see? I know a bunch of those guys. Ask about volume and width, not just length, when you go back.
And yes, he can punch out space for that long second toe if you end up going down a size.

Did you say you are in a men's boot?

 

[AHendrickx]

Where in NH? Who did you see? I know a bunch of those guys. Ask about volume and width, not just length, when you go back.
And yes, he can punch out space for that long second toe if you end up going down a size.

Did you say you are in a men's boot?

I’m in Warner,NH and went to Skinner’s in Newbury, NH near mount sunapee. We ski pat’s peak. I forget the name of the guy who helped me just remember that they call him “the boot whisperer”

I’m not in a men’s boot but pats peak rentals went by men’s sizes so I was in 7 at first then a 8 when I was renting there. I’m in a women’s boot now.

 

[ski skuhl]

Tough love ahead.

ANY movement of the foot inside the boot is bad. Before too much time goes by, take those boots back and complain that your heel/ankle is moving. Please do this. Please. Boot fit needs to be SNUG. Do not allow them to glue stuff to the outside of your liners to fill the air spaces. Demand new boots that actually fit. They should be tight, as in, really tight, as you stand and walk around in the shop, without any added stuff glued in them. The boot fitter can grind out cavities in the shell, or warm the plastic and punch it outward, to make room for any parts of your foot that press too hard on the shell. This is bootfitting 101.

So repeating, your new replacement boots should be TIGHT, as in, more tight than you can believe will ever work for you. Ask to see the manager if the boot person isn't willing to work with you on this. Please do this. New boots should not be loose, not at all. They should be "too tight" until the liners pack out and they become just right. If you keep these boots and allow them to add stuff to the liner to fill in the slop, your quads will continue to hurt, and you will not have control over your skis. You will think you are at fault, and you may learn to hate skiing.

Why am I so sure? Why am I coming on so strong with this?

Because you are a novice skier, a first time boot buyer, and your words clearly describe boots that are too big. The other reason I am coming on so strong with such certainty is because most people buying boots for the first time tend to get boots too big. But they don't realize it and go for years struggling when boots that fit would have helped them control their skis without quad burn and fear. You realize it may be the boots. You are ahead of the game and have come here for advice. So I'm not holding back.

I am so tired of boot sellers doing this to beginners, and especially to beginner women. So tired.

PREACH!

 

[Jilly]

45 min? I'm usually 2 hours!! And it doesn't sound like you got a shell fit. Check out our Gearpedia about, why you, yes you need a boot fitting.!!

 

[liquidfeet]

I’m in Warner,NH and went to Skinner’s in Newbury, NH near mount sunapee. We ski pat’s peak. I forget the name of the guy who helped me just remember that they call him “the boot whisperer”

I’m not in a men’s boot but pats peak rentals went by men’s sizes so I was in 7 at first then a 8 when I was renting there. I’m in a women’s boot now.

Sounds like you have a good bootfitter. Go back and get something that fits well from him. I bet it will work out since you are going to be persistent. AKA pushy. Go for it!