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Never ending boot saga continues

elemmac

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Without the heel lifts I don't get thrown backseat anymore, but I am getting sore shins by pressuring the front of my boots hard and the boots not giving at all. Bumps are really bad with this and I have to take the full brunt in my knees.

I'm not sure how to explain.... Im leaning my mass forward, pressing my shins to the boot fronts and getting my butt forward over top my feet?
You mentioned taking spoilers out as well? Maybe try putting those back in (while leaving the heel lifts out)...spoilers will essentially create more forward lean in the boot, this may help you get forward and take some of the pressure off your shins.
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You mentioned taking spoilers out as well? Maybe try putting those back in (while leaving the heel lifts out)...spoilers will essentially create more forward lean in the boot, this may help you get forward and take some of the pressure off your shins.
I'll try it and see. The upright stance feels good, but it's like I hit a concrete wall on the front of the boot when I try to flex. I can somewhat forward, but not enough to feel completely comfortable. It may be that im doing things all wrong too, not sure. I've had bad boot fit for years, so maybe it is just me not doing what I should be doing. I think that is what @liquidfeet was getting at, and I'm sure that is a big factor too. I'm a disaster lol.
 

elemmac

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'll try it and see. The upright stance feels good, but it's like I hit a concrete wall on the front of the boot when I try to flex. I can somewhat forward, but not enough to feel completely comfortable. It may be that im doing things all wrong too, not sure. I've had bad boot fit for years, so maybe it is just me not doing what I should be doing. I think that is what @liquidfeet was getting at, and I'm sure that is a big factor too. I'm a disaster lol.
Could be anything...there's only so much bootfitting you can do over the internet, lol. Just figured the spoilers might be a change you can do on your own, and an easy one to reverse if it doesn't feel right. Good luck!
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I am wondering too if it might be a leverage issue. The boot doc liners come up at least 3 inches out of the top of the shell, pretty far up my leg. Comfortable, but I don't have very long legs and I'm already 5'1". I'm 125lbs, so I would think that would be heavy enough for a stiff boot, but maybe not with short legs.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It's so hard to tell. BF who is an L3 says "you don't need to crush the boot! You just need to be able to open and close your ankles, and TIP." The BD tongues will push you back a bit, but I LIKE that BUT I can see how it would either make it seem like you aren't flexing properly, or are being pushed back.

I hope today goes better. I think you'll have some answers if things feel quite a bit better on the Santa Anas with the flatter bindings.
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ye
Could be anything...there's only so much bootfitting you can do over the internet, lol. Just figured the spoilers might be a change you can do on your own, and an easy one to reverse if it doesn't feel right. Good luck!
LOL truth. I'll give it a whirl and see. I need a big fat bank account for lessons and a boot fitter to follow me around for a week lol.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I am wondering too if it might be a leverage issue. The boot doc liners come up at least 3 inches out of the top of the shell, pretty far up my leg. Comfortable, but I don't have very long legs and I'm already 5'1". I'm 125lbs, so I would think that would be heavy enough for a stiff boot, but maybe not with short legs.
Wait, what?! Mine are about an inch, maybe 1.5 inches. Same boot size. Is this the whole liner, or just the tongue? If it's just the tongue, maybe have some of the material dissolved there.

In the meantime, buckle a bit looser on the top.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I wonder if they changed the height of them, because mine's I think two seasons old now and it's definitely not 3 inches above my boot. It's no taller than the stock liner, except the tongue, which I'm glad is taller. Weird!
 
@contesstant

I thought Marker fixed the issue with stepping into the Squires, particularly for shorter BSLs. I guess not! I didn't paid attention to binding ramp angle and heel/toe lifts, nor the fine point of bindings in general, until those dratted Squires. Something new to learn...
Think it all depends. My Marker Squire bindings give me no issues at all. And I am a total lightweight with shorter BSL. They're not demos though. Think from 2016 or 2017.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@SquidWeaselYay, I'm still wondering what you do when you "try" to flex the boot, and what your purpose is in doing this "trying."

A boot flexes as a by-product of something else. That something else is the important thing. There are some very high level skiers who are in favor of boots that don't flex. That lack of flexion does not mean they are not forward enough. It just means... well, I'll try to get to that.

If your stance puts you on top of the skis in such a way that most of your body weight is hovering over the front of the skis, in front of your toe piece, then you are forward. If your boots are soft, then the cuffs will flex when the downward pressure from your hovering body increases in the middle of the turn, when forces are strongest. Your stance doesn't have to change to make that flexion happen. The cuff's flexion absorbs that mounting pressure. When it stops flexing, your ski's front end, the shovel, receives the pressure and it bends.

If you have stiff boots, the ski's shovel receives that mounting pressure right away, and bends sooner.

The flexion of a boot is there not for comfort, not to signal that you are forward, but to absorb some of that pressure before the ski responds. Boot flexion delays the bending of the ski's shovel.

Who would want the boot cuff's absorption to delay the ski's response?
1. People who are not yet precise with their pressure management (thus low flex numbers for beginners and intermediates who don't yet know how to manage pressure in a timely manner).
2. People who are skiing terrain or conditions that will produce irregular pressures that even a highly skilled skier can't manage properly (bump skiers).
3. Skiers in too-loose boots who need to avoid the shin-bang that comes from shins bumping into the cuffs since there's so much air space in there.
4. Skiers who like to make gentle, skidded turns, who do not necessarily want to pay attention to controlling the bend in the ski's shovel, who ski on nearly flat skis anyway and want a soft, gentle ride.
5. Skiers who are still building their edging skills, who don't want to be surprised by the effects of an inadvertantly bent shovel that suddenly comes around when they didn't expect or try to create that bend.
6. High level skiers who don't want boot cuffs to flex like the immediate response of their shovels to the mounting pressures. They manage that bend well in order to determine turn radius for their edged turns.

You are light in weight, so what a soft flexible boot means for you is different from a 145 lb skier. In any event, there's no reason to "try" to bend a cuff. If you are bending your knees to bend the cuff, stop. Just ski and start paying attention to how much the ski bends when your skis are pointing down the fall line and just afterwards (apex), not how much the cuff gives. It's the ski that makes the turn.
 
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liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#6 in my last post is an explanation of why some high level skiers want their boots to be stiff. I think it may be misunderstood the way I originally posted it.

I've restated it below.

6. High level skiers who don't want their boot to flex much want their skis' shovels to bend immediately in response to the mounting pressures of each turn. They manage that bend well by controlling their edging, which in turn controls the pressure. These skiers are precise in their control of these factors. The resulting bend in the skis determines the turn radius for their edged turns.
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Day 2 update:
@elemmac good call about the spoilers. I out those in on the 3rd run and felt a lot better stance wise. I was more forward without as much effort and my shins didn't hurt. Thanks for the tip!

Either the boot liners are packing out where I need it to happen or I am getting used to the pain. Went down a bunch of glades today and had so much fun I forgot my feet hurt (until the odd jarring here and there in the bumps). Also, the Santa Anas were much more fun than the kenjas yesterday. Also, I wore real ski socks today (smartwool PhD) and kept the upper cuff buckle loose, and left the booster strap a tad looser than yesterday. I felt way more confident and balanced today than yesterday by a mile. Did a few blacks and got a little backseat after I would get some pain, but I was able to be mindful of it and corrected pretty well.

The most painful part of today was standing/walking around in them at the end of the day. DH wanted to go the the Moose market and I was ready to scream by the end. Even with all the buckles undone. Should have out the slippers on, but I didn't think it would take as long as it did.

Sorry for any spelling errors, we went to lone peak brewery for dinner and they had a double IPA on nitro that I could not say no to. I know I have some people to respond to on this thread but I'm beat and buzzed and full fo good food and ready to crawl into bed. :smile:

Supposed to have a few inches of fresh tomorrow, yay!
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Day 3 mid day update: Side of foot bone still in pain, it's firmer today so I think it's getting jarred around more too. Hopefully after lunch the snow will start and the pain will subside.
 

SquidWeaselYay

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Called Dieter over lunch. He said to go to a good fitter here and get it punched or ground about a 1-2mm, or if the fitter can do it, they can inject some acetone. I think we will go do that this evening. I remember somebody saying that Lone Mountain Sports is good, any other recommendations or people I should ask for?
 

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