CarverJill
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I got my EPIC pass in the mail a few days ago!
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Multi-Ski Area Pass Comparison
- Thread starter Tvan
- Start date
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
I renewed mine again so hope to ski with you! Hope you got that awesome military discount!
CarverJill
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes I did! I'd love to ski with you again. I may make a trip up to Tahoe this coming winter .
marzNC
Angel Diva
Some discussion came up in the Ikon thread that applies to all the multi-resort passes . . .
The question is related to how Vail Resorts and Alterra can make money in the long run when locals are getting season passes for less than before, while getting to ski at other resorts without paying for day tickets.
The Epic Pass came out in 2008. Dropped season pass prices for Vail Resorts in Colorado a lot. Stowe season passes dropped from about $2000 to $800 after VR took over. I presume many locals to a VR resort happily bought another Epic pass for 2018-19. Based on comments by Rob Katz, CEO of VR, the fact that lots of people buy an Epic pass before the snow falls at any VR resort is what has made that business model quite successful in the last decade. People are generally optimistic about how many days on snow they plan to get.
VR bought three ski areas in the midwest in 2012 (Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton) and 2016 (Wilmot) and spent about $35 million on capital projects like new lifts and major lodge renovations. That gave VR direct access to snowsports people who live in Minn/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Detroit. Apparently in 2010, those states are on the higher end of average number of ski days according to a 2013 Liftopia article. The four states are either in the 10-25 or 25-50 range per 100 skiers/boarders. There are major airports that make it pretty easy to do a ski trip of two to the Rockies, Tahoe, or W-B.
For a business viewpoint about why VR's strategy with Epic has worked out well, take a look at this 2012 article. Also covers Whistler-Blackcomb, which independent at the time. VR bought W-B in 2016.
No Business Like Snow Business: The Economics of Big Ski Resorts
Not only did sales increase for 2016-17, the revenue increase percentage was more than the count increase. The number of Epic passes sold for the 2017-18 season often quoted as 740,000. The season before it was about 650,000 and before that the round number was 500,0000. That's a lot of money to have in the bank before November.
Presumably Alterra hopes to have similar success with the Ikon pass, although there have been a few stumbles as they gear up for the first season for Ikon. Most recently, a deal for Costco members was set up that has annoyed some people who bought at the early bird price in the spring.
What's much less clear is what will happen with the Mountain Collective after 2018-19. The fact that Aspen Ski Co. inspired the creation of the MCP in 2012 and is still on the MCP--even though the Crown family is a major investor in Alterra--may indicate there are people at the top of Alterra and the Ikon "partner resorts" who think of having both as a win-win scenario.
The question is related to how Vail Resorts and Alterra can make money in the long run when locals are getting season passes for less than before, while getting to ski at other resorts without paying for day tickets.
The Epic Pass came out in 2008. Dropped season pass prices for Vail Resorts in Colorado a lot. Stowe season passes dropped from about $2000 to $800 after VR took over. I presume many locals to a VR resort happily bought another Epic pass for 2018-19. Based on comments by Rob Katz, CEO of VR, the fact that lots of people buy an Epic pass before the snow falls at any VR resort is what has made that business model quite successful in the last decade. People are generally optimistic about how many days on snow they plan to get.
VR bought three ski areas in the midwest in 2012 (Afton Alps, Mt. Brighton) and 2016 (Wilmot) and spent about $35 million on capital projects like new lifts and major lodge renovations. That gave VR direct access to snowsports people who live in Minn/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Detroit. Apparently in 2010, those states are on the higher end of average number of ski days according to a 2013 Liftopia article. The four states are either in the 10-25 or 25-50 range per 100 skiers/boarders. There are major airports that make it pretty easy to do a ski trip of two to the Rockies, Tahoe, or W-B.
For a business viewpoint about why VR's strategy with Epic has worked out well, take a look at this 2012 article. Also covers Whistler-Blackcomb, which independent at the time. VR bought W-B in 2016.
No Business Like Snow Business: The Economics of Big Ski Resorts
Not only did sales increase for 2016-17, the revenue increase percentage was more than the count increase. The number of Epic passes sold for the 2017-18 season often quoted as 740,000. The season before it was about 650,000 and before that the round number was 500,0000. That's a lot of money to have in the bank before November.
Presumably Alterra hopes to have similar success with the Ikon pass, although there have been a few stumbles as they gear up for the first season for Ikon. Most recently, a deal for Costco members was set up that has annoyed some people who bought at the early bird price in the spring.
What's much less clear is what will happen with the Mountain Collective after 2018-19. The fact that Aspen Ski Co. inspired the creation of the MCP in 2012 and is still on the MCP--even though the Crown family is a major investor in Alterra--may indicate there are people at the top of Alterra and the Ikon "partner resorts" who think of having both as a win-win scenario.
marzNC
Angel Diva
The Powder Alliance will definitely be around for 2018-19. Just read about the addition of Monarch to the list. When I checked the Powder Alliance website, that's not the only addition. Loveland and Sugar Bowl have joined, plus Ski Marmot and Castle in Alberta.
Per usual, folks who are locals for Colorado or Tahoe have the most options when it comes to a season pass. Although the decision process for the northeast is pretty complicated too with both Epic and Ikon including northeast destination resorts. Used to be that for people who fly for midseason ski trips from the southeast or midwest, picking a multi-resort pass was about where they wanted to go the next season and how many ski days they hoped to schedule. But with Snowshoe (WV) in Ikon and the three "urban" ski areas (MN, MI) in Epic, that's probably changed the decision process for some people in those flatland regions.
Per usual, folks who are locals for Colorado or Tahoe have the most options when it comes to a season pass. Although the decision process for the northeast is pretty complicated too with both Epic and Ikon including northeast destination resorts. Used to be that for people who fly for midseason ski trips from the southeast or midwest, picking a multi-resort pass was about where they wanted to go the next season and how many ski days they hoped to schedule. But with Snowshoe (WV) in Ikon and the three "urban" ski areas (MN, MI) in Epic, that's probably changed the decision process for some people in those flatland regions.
LauraJ83
Diva in Training
We have done Mtn Collective the past two years, and it has been an unbelievable deal. This past season we hit Alta, Snowbird, Jackson, Sun Valley, Telluride (RIP), and Aspen (plus my husband hit Banff, Lake Louise, Revelstoke, Squaw, and Sugarbush - count me jealous). Prior season we hit Alta, Snowbird, Banff, Lake Louise, Revy, Jackson, and Stowe (RIP) (plus husband also squeezed in Mammoth, Squaw, and Chamonix). We decided to do Ikon this year for some of the extra resorts and extra days. I'm not sure we are going to get our money's worth (at least on my part), but it was kind of a splurge and made sense since we are on the east coast. We also bought the Epic passes since we get the $99 military rate, and it seemed dumb not to, even if we only get in one weekend at a Vail resort.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Interesting, the SAM multi-resort season pass comparison chart includes the PowerPass with 5 areas in the Four Corners region but doesn't include the Peak Pass that has 7 areas in the northeast/Mid-Atlantic.
https://www.saminfo.com/mountain-departments/season-pass-comparison-chart
https://www.saminfo.com/mountain-departments/season-pass-comparison-chart
marzNC
Angel Diva
Found another comparison of Epic and Ikon. Already out of date because the pending purchase of Solitude by Alterra isn't included and Thredbo in Australia became an Ikon partner. A side-by-side comparison is useful to someone like me who is visually oriented, although would be better if the state/province were include for the N. American resorts.
Epic list on left starting with Vail and Ikon on right starting with Steamboat. The names in blue were links on the original webpage, which gives some indication of which are destination resorts vs more for day trips or weekends. Although Tremblant, Stratton, Sugarbush, and Loon certainly are destinations for some family ski vacations for folks who live in the northeast. Snowshoe in WV is definitely a destination resort for people in the southeast (may be missing from Region listing). Perisher is a destination resort for Australians.
Epic list on left starting with Vail and Ikon on right starting with Steamboat. The names in blue were links on the original webpage, which gives some indication of which are destination resorts vs more for day trips or weekends. Although Tremblant, Stratton, Sugarbush, and Loon certainly are destinations for some family ski vacations for folks who live in the northeast. Snowshoe in WV is definitely a destination resort for people in the southeast (may be missing from Region listing). Perisher is a destination resort for Australians.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Just read a slightly different viewpoint about comparing Epic to Ikon. When the article was published on June 19, only Epic included a ski resort in Australia. But then Ikon added Thredbo a week later. This Australian travel blog made a 1-day offer for a discount on lodging at an Ikon destination for people who caught the entry about Thredbo. Similar amount to the offer made by Costco a month later.
https://www.snowsbest.com/which-is-better-for-australians-the-epic-or-ikon-pass/
Fair to say that the decision process between Epic, Ikon, and MCP for folks in Australia or New Zealand is quite different than for folks in North America. Just as the decision process is quite different for Americans in California, New England, or the flatlands in the midwest or southeast.
https://www.snowsbest.com/which-is-better-for-australians-the-epic-or-ikon-pass/
Fair to say that the decision process between Epic, Ikon, and MCP for folks in Australia or New Zealand is quite different than for folks in North America. Just as the decision process is quite different for Americans in California, New England, or the flatlands in the midwest or southeast.
marzNC
Angel Diva
The MCP is available again for $449. Trying to make news by upgrading Niseko to a full partner instead of just as a Global Affiliate. The difference is that now additional days at Niseko will be at 50% discount.
Interesting that the price is $20 less in August compared to last year, even though the starting price in March was a bit higher. Don't expect the next change until early October.
Interesting that the price is $20 less in August compared to last year, even though the starting price in March was a bit higher. Don't expect the next change until early October.
marzNC
Angel Diva
For anyone still considering the Full Ikon who happens to be a Costco member, or has a Costco close enough to consider a membership, can get a $200 Costco cash card buying the Ikon from Costco online. The partnership between Alterra and Costco began in July.
https://www.costco.com/IKON-Pass-20182019-Season-%26-Bonus-Costco-Cash-Card.product.100423693.html
https://www.costco.com/IKON-Pass-20182019-Season-%26-Bonus-Costco-Cash-Card.product.100423693.html
nopoleskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
And Ikon gets more interesting, especially in Utah. Not only did Alterra buy Solitude and add it to Ikon, they are working with Brighton for Ikon. The list for Ikon when flying to SLC is way better than Epic.
Promising more tomorrow.
View attachment 9308
Sounding more and more like I need a Condo In SLC...
nopoleskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Taos- just got added to IKON..... :-)
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Can't believe it.... guess I need both Epic and ikon next year
nopoleskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have MCP and Ikon this year- I crunched #'s and by the time I paid 1/2 off the extra days at the Mts I'm skiing it was same or tad cheaper to go w/both..
Taos this spring did have a 350$ midweek pass EARLY Buy in- I almost did that but ended up w/MCP & took my 3rd day there.
Now I just have to SKI SKI SKI to make sure I beat both passes!!!
This working for a living really cuts into that, doesn't it!!
marzNC
Angel Diva
Interesting how the Epic pass is marketed in terms of the number of mountains. Adding Hakuba Valley means VR can claim access to 9 new mountains, instead of just one new location. Alterra uses the term "destinations" so Squaw/Alpine and Aspen/Snowmass/Highlands/Buttermilk are each a single destination even though they are completely separate mountains not connected by lifts. Alta and Snowbird are one destination even though they have different ownership but it's possible to ski between them. SkiBig3 around Banff is one destination with separate mountains.
I got an eBlast for the Epic pass today. Price goes up on Sept. 3. There is a note about Triple Peaks in very fine print in the email: " * Resort access and benefits at Okemo, Crested Butte, and Mount Sunapee are pending closure of the transaction to acquire Triple Peaks." Haven't ever bought one but find it entertaining to see how the major multi-resort passes are advertised.
I got an eBlast for the Epic pass today. Price goes up on Sept. 3. There is a note about Triple Peaks in very fine print in the email: " * Resort access and benefits at Okemo, Crested Butte, and Mount Sunapee are pending closure of the transaction to acquire Triple Peaks." Haven't ever bought one but find it entertaining to see how the major multi-resort passes are advertised.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Ikon pass prices going up $50 on 10/10/18.
I did the calculation for my planned trips and decided adding Ikon Base to the MCP I bought in March made sense because I'll be skiing MCP locations for enough additional days beyond the 2 included. Hope to explore a few of the Ikon locations is the northeast, as well as check out Deer Valley when I'm at Alta Lodge in April.
I did the calculation for my planned trips and decided adding Ikon Base to the MCP I bought in March made sense because I'll be skiing MCP locations for enough additional days beyond the 2 included. Hope to explore a few of the Ikon locations is the northeast, as well as check out Deer Valley when I'm at Alta Lodge in April.
