More toe issues. Discuss.

[skigrl27]

I think I've figured out my "Frozen Toes" issue and am currently dealing with it the best I can. Toes still get cold - but after a few runs & a warm up inside somewhere...plus deodorant, smartwool socks & toe warmers....I think I'm doing the best I can.

New issues (apologize if this is kinda icky) - my 2nd toenail (the long toe) on my left foot seems to be...well, kinda falling off. It's still "on" however, it's days may be numbered. It doesn't hurt, either...surprisingly. I have juuuust the right amount of room in my boots, my toes have enough space aren't smushed & aren't rubbing the ends of my boots or anything. This has never happened to me before! Anyone else??

Also - my 2nd to last toe & middle toe on each foot falls asleep sometimes. Mostly in normal shoes & for no apparent reason. I think I may have a circulation problem in my feet...which could explain all my issues - even the cold toes.

 

[SueNJ]

I sometimes get that same numbness you described--I have Morton's neuroma in both feet (thanks to squishing my wide feet into tiny little shoes with high heels when I was younger) and any pressure underfoot at the base of toes 3 and 4 or just back from that spot gives me the numbness. Do you have metatarsal arches in your footbeds? I made sure they were added when I had my ski orthotics made.

Can't help you with the toenail thing, though.

 

[Robyn]

Lost toe nails are quite common in skiing. I haven't had that happen but had one so banged up last year that I ended up having surgery on the nail in August because it mangled the growth shape so bad.

I have some numbness issues at times (mostly in athletic shoes) and agree that is probably causing some of your cold toe problems.

ETA: The podiatrist said my next step if it keeps happening is to completely remove the nail for good. He says many women just paint the skin right where the nail went and people never noticed there wasn't a nail. I hope it doesn't get there!

 

[Gloria]

This is quite common actually. Very few tele skiers have their big toenails by this time in the season, and most avid downhillers at least have black and blue ones by this point. Alot of people I know have actually had theirs removed completely, they just don't want to deal with it anymore. I have had a similiar yet not as complete procedure on mine. Mine has been removed down oneside near the skin which takes the pressure off, has worked pretty well for me, I have been able to keep my nails intact, although they do sometimes get black and blue. Not much you can do about though beyond this. Battle scars, it proves you have been skiing a bunch.

 

[tradygirl]

This used to happen to me every year, with multiple pairs of boots. Most toenails are lost due to trauma - knocking your toe repeatedly against the front or top of your boot (made worse by being cold). Two causes - you're in the backseat a lot, or your boots don't fit right.

I have not lost a toenail since I got boots that were professionally fitted. Ask any good bootfitter - losing toenails and foot pain are not supposed to be a given!

I know it sucks, but my only advice is to spend the money to get new boots from a reputable fitter, a full fitting, and custom footbeds. Your feet will not hurt, will not get as cold, and you will not lose toenails!

And stay out of the backseat! :D

 

[MaineSkiLady]

You've hit a nerve. I generally don't discuss this in public. Again, as with so many topics discussed here, I never thought I'd ever meet anyone with the same problem(s).

Okay, imagine what this all looks like after 33 years of tight-fitting ski boots - use your imaginations. :jaw:
Not pretty. I have 6 toenails that gotta go, for good. I have not yet done so. Why not, you ask? Because I was butchered once by an obviously less than septic podiatrist. I wound up almost losing my toe to sepsis, which I why I felt NannyMin's pain so acutely (and in my brain, almost literally).

Anything tight on any part of the foot is a recipe for future woes. This includes bunions. But the toenail thing - looks like I've got lots of company....I don't know if I'll ever find a podiatrist I can really trust, so I deal for now. Once the nail matrix is damaged, the nail will never be normal again. And we are definitely harming the nail matrix with the fit of ski boots.

Ah, but life's a trade-off, oui? My problem with my nails is that I never dare going barefoot or open toe, for fear of infection as much as making others faint (WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR NAILS??!! ), nor can I go anywhere near any kind of sand, for fear it will get into the edges and infect.

Keep 'em clean, do the best you can, and if you decide either for reduction or full removal, be prepared to be sidelined for awhile - if you don't wind up with the serious level of infection that I did.

 

[num]

ETA: The podiatrist said my next step if it keeps happening is to completely remove the nail for good. He says many women just paint the skin right where the nail went and people never noticed there wasn't a nail. I hope it doesn't get there!

I have a friend from soccer who's permanently missing 6 toenails. She always keeps her nails polished because she paints those 6 on. She wears open sandals and stuff, and you can't tell unless you know her.

 

[skigrl27]

This used to happen to me every year, with multiple pairs of boots. Most toenails are lost due to trauma - knocking your toe repeatedly against the front or top of your boot (made worse by being cold). Two causes - you're in the backseat a lot, or your boots don't fit right.

I have not lost a toenail since I got boots that were professionally fitted. Ask any good bootfitter - losing toenails and foot pain are not supposed to be a given!

I know it sucks, but my only advice is to spend the money to get new boots from a reputable fitter, a full fitting, and custom footbeds. Your feet will not hurt, will not get as cold, and you will not lose toenails!

And stay out of the backseat! :D

My boots were fitted by the same boot fitter that fits the US Ski Team. He's one of the best boot fitters around. They are brand new top of the line boots ($750) with another $250 of custom fitting after that. Foot beds, shims...you name it. They fit great & feel nice too. I don't have any pain. Just occasional toes falling asleep & the toenail.

I wonder if it's all the powder??? See, skiing in super deep light powder here - you kind of HAVE to be in the backseat a bit. Too forward = head over heels yardsale. I've got almost 40 days in these boots, too. So that...with all the Pow could be why this is the first season I've ever had to deal with this.

Ummm....I'll lose a toe nail if we get 24 feet by February every season!!

 

[volklgirl]

I too used to lose both big toe nails every ski season, mostly from hiking on the bunny hill with my boots barely buckled. I quit teaching and got my boots professionally fitted and I haven't had an issue since, although I do get tinglies in my midle 2 toes on my right foot when I stand around at all.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I've had a very good boot fit for about the last 6 years. The damage had been done prior. Once a nail is traumatized to the point that the nail comes loose and off, the nail matrix and sides are damaged for good. The ingrown problems begin with the new nail coming in - it just doesn't quite know where to "go" (and I won't go into graphic description of that scenario....). Boots are just snugger than any shoe we'd wear otherwise. The more hours and years in them, the more damage. I remember reading Michael Jordan's autobiography, with his descriptions of how beyond horrible his feet were.

Guess this is one of our price tags as jocks? No easy answers. Any footwear that won't stress your nails wouldn't work one iota re skiing.

 

[smpayne]

When I first got my new boots, after the 2nd day, little toes (on both feet) had been rubbed raw and were bleeding. My bootfitter was able to make adjustments to my footbed and the board inside the boot(under the liner) to give me more room up and down room for my toes.

I used to figure skate in high school and college. Ski boot have nothing on a new pair of skates. The girls that were really good and needed a new pair of skates every year had the ugliest feet. I'm just glad skiing doesn't require landing on your toes.

 

[atlantiqueen]

MSL is right...once the damage is done, it's done. I've broken all my toes dancing and lost most of the toenails at one time or other from being en pointe (toe shoes) )

Since I've been climbing and skiing, I lose one or 2 per season.

Re: your circulation issues (numb/cold feet) consider your diet. Women are notorious for having poor circulation so look at foods/supplements that work at improving circulation.

Here's a few:
Pumpkin Seeds - a good source of vitamin E
Oranges - the high levels of vitamin C and bioflavonoids in oranges help the flow of blood through your body by strengthening the capillary walls.
Nuts - contain niacin, or vitamin B3
Watermelon - rich in lycopene
Garlic

 

[Gloria]

My boots were fitted by the same boot fitter that fits the US Ski Team. He's one of the best boot fitters around. They are brand new top of the line boots ($750) with another $250 of custom fitting after that. Foot beds, shims...you name it. They fit great & feel nice too. I don't have any pain. Just occasional toes falling asleep & the toenail.

I wonder if it's all the powder??? See, skiing in super deep light powder here - you kind of HAVE to be in the backseat a bit. Too forward = head over heels yardsale. I've got almost 40 days in these boots, too. So that...with all the Pow could be why this is the first season I've ever had to deal with this.

Ummm....I'll lose a toe nail if we get 24 feet by February every season!!

I think you are getting more of a tele toe than backseat, if your boots are fitted tightly enough that you are having circulation issues than you are probably not able to slide your foot forward hard enough to be hitting the front of your boot ( plus I think that 2nd buckle from the top on your boots is angled to prevent this ). I think you are experiencing more downward pressure from the shell like a tele skier gets in the flex postion. You may see if they can take some dragon skin and sand down your liners just enough under the toes to relieve this, they may be able to take just enough off without affecting your stance too much. The other thing to see first though, since this is the 2nd toenail, is if you need more width across, that toe could be getting jammed by those on either side of it, which is also an easy problem to fix, and may well solve your circulation issues as well.

 

[alaski]

I definitely think that black and blue toenails are a sign of poorly fitting boots. Don't put up with that - keep going back to the boot fitter and make sure they get it right! If they fit you with intuition or other moldable liners, make sure they put a toe cap on to give your feet enough room.

I suffer with circulation issues too. Some days my boots are fine; other days I have to fool around with them all day long and they still never feel right.

Edited to add:

same boot fitter that fits the US Ski Team.

I don't know that that is necessarily a good thing. All the ski team guys I know say quite matter-of-factly that their feet hurt really bad in their boots, and that they expect to lose circulation by the end of the run. They say you just have to get used to it. No thanks!

 

[skigrl27]

Well - I was saying that more or less because he's considered one of the best bootfitters around & has offered to work with me forever as long as I own the same boots. Tons of "regular" people go to him too...not just racers. And trust me - for what I've paid - I'll bother him whenever I want. So far, he's really helped with my stance.

Maybe I'll try to buckle the 2nd one down a little less. I really LIKE the feeling of my boot being nice & snug though - and I unbuckle at the bottom usually. Some days I'm fine...others I have cold toes...others I have toes asleep.

 

[Kimmyt]

OK, lotsa experience here on this one. The last two years have been defined by foot issues.

Big toenails on both feet turned black/purple last year and ultimately fell off. They 'started' to fall off by lifting and being attached loosely. There was no pain after the initial banging which caused them to come off, caused by too-large boots. After the initial painful trip I got custom footbeds, but the bootfitter pretty much told me he could only make my boots so much smaller, and I'd probably have to get a smaller sized boot in the end. After several months of being loosely attached, I noticed new nails coming in and after the old nails fell off I simply kept my eye on the new growth. This mean using the sharp file thing on a nail clipper to clean out under the growing edge of the new nail as well as lightly pry it out from the skin to ensure no ingrowns. It didn't ever really hurt, but it was never exactly fun.

Anyway, now I have better boots that fit me (a whole 1.5 sizes smaller!) and custom footbeds. Well, I still do get a bit of pain, though now it is in my second toe, and may be caused by some technique issues. I also think this happens because my 2nd toe is rather long, quite a bit longer than my big toe. It can have a tendency to curl under at the front of the boot, if I got boots any bigger I'd be floating in them, so after a while long in the boots I may have to get some extra room put around that toe if it's possible, but for right now I'm waiting in case the boots pack out. Anyway, so the 2nd toe is not painful. Sometimes when I'm in the backseat it is, but overall it's not hurty, although it is a pretty shade of violet, but I'm letting it bed. I have been consider using a small wad of lambswool to pack around this toe in my sock to provide some extra cushion. Good ski socks do help as well, the kind with the cushy toe-section (I use Smartwool Race Light socks).

I also do sometimes get the mild numbness you speak of. Usually this is when I clamp down on my 2nd buckle over my arch, which is particularly high, and I can feel the bone on top of my arch really digging into the shell. Usually clamping down conditions are ones that drive me into the backseat, like powder or crud. The second toe thing is another thing I may have to get looked at on these boots, but I'm holding off there too. Usually a loosening of the 2nd buckle over my foot and the lower ankle buckle help alleviate numbness, and if it's particularly bad I'll go into the lodge and take off my boot for about 10 minutes and it seems to help.

Anyway, good luck with your problems, hopefully you can get it sorted!

K.

 

[Gloria]

Maybe I'll try to buckle the 2nd one down a little less. I really LIKE the feeling of my boot being nice & snug though - and I unbuckle at the bottom usually. Some days I'm fine...others I have cold toes...others I have toes asleep.

I hope I didn't confuse you, this buckle is angled to prevent your foot from sliding forward in the boot, is what I meant. So crank her down as much as you want.

 

[skigrl27]

No I'm not confused. I didn't even notice the toenail thing until yesterday. I also have a very LONG second toe. Kinda resembles a finger more than a toe - and weird feet in general: very high arches, skinny feet, heels & ankle - but a wide fore foot and super long toes. My bootfitter said I'd probably wear a size 7 shoe if my toes were average size. I wear a size 9.

I also think I have OCD when it comes to buckling my boots too. Like...I NEED to have this one on the second notch, the two bottom buckles on the first notch, etc, etc. I haven't really played with buckling yet. Will experiment this weekend!

 

[Gloria]

Very similiar situation, my 2nd and 3rd toes are both longer than my big toe. My second toe has adapted in the joint by both bending backwards, it will actually accordian itself, as well as after years of various footwear, they are both jackknifed to the opposite sides. Including narrow ankles and heels etc. You should look into seeing if you are sandwiching that toe, I find this happens to me alot in various footwear especially items like ski boots where the heel fit is so critical, sometimes the proportion is just so off, my frontfoot is totally crammed to accomodate the lesser portions. There are alot of things bootwise that can be done if this is the case. You are probably like me though, so used to it, it becomes oblivious unless you really think about it. I bet if this is the case and you solve it, alot of your other issues will be solved too. Could allow for a heck of alot of bloodflow to them there toes.

 

[Kimmyt]

I think you all have the same feet as me.