SuperSkiMom
Certified Ski Diva
I was told they would be installing gates at Pico. I would think it would only be for the Golden Express. (That is the main lift at the base). No need I think for Outpost.
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More ski resorts going to RFID
- Thread starter marzNC
- Start date
I was told they would be installing gates at Pico. I would think it would only be for the Golden Express. (That is the main lift at the base). No need I think for Outpost.
marzNC
Angel Diva
It seems as if RFID has finally becoming standard at North American ski resorts, even though the first installations started around 2006. That was just before the 2008 recession hit the ski industry hard. Alta was one of the first to see the value of investing in RFID, with the gates first in use for the 2007-08 season. Vail started testing in 2007 and their in-house RFID system, EpicMix, was rolled out for the 2008-09 system. Vail chose UHF instead of the more common HF because the scanners can read RFID cards from a greater distance. What evolved into EpicMix started at five Vail resorts: Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, and Heavenly. Aspen also made the decision to invest in RFID in time for the 2008-09 season.
The list of early adopters is a bit surprising. In addition to Alta, Stevens Pass, Tamarack, and Bachelor all had RFID gates before Vail and Aspen. Jiminy Peak, Wachusett, and Blue Hills in MA have had RFID for several years. Snowbird installed RFID gates at the base lifts in 2015. By the 2017-18 season the list in N. America included Panorama.
By 2017, the technology was mature enough that the cost was not longer considered a barrier. At least not in comparison to snowmaking equipment according to an April 2018 article in SnowOps. Blue Hills uses turnstiles that cost $2000-4000 but worked out a lease arrangement with DAG Systems, which has it's U.S. office near Boston. Axess is the vendor used by Alta. Vail and Aspen use hardware from SKIDATA but handle software separately. Aspen expanded the reach of their RFID cards into retail using scanners from another company that were much cheaper than what SKIDATA had to offer.
https://snowopsmag.com/index.php/re...ss-north-america-are-going-rfid-and-loving-it
". . .
Axess has installed RFID systems in 50 countries, generally beginning the process in early spring to be ready for the next ski season. “The initial costs for such a program are comparatively low,” said Kopetzky. “The whole investment for a smaller resort is less than the cost of two complete snow guns on a tower (including shaft, control panel, etc.).”
Orchiston [director of business technology] said, “We did a lot of investigation into ROI prior to purchasing the system in June 2017. We took into account various factors – for example, labor savings and fraud elimination. The technology frees up staff to work on other lifts, interact more with the guests and better focus on fraud control. . . . "
The list of early adopters is a bit surprising. In addition to Alta, Stevens Pass, Tamarack, and Bachelor all had RFID gates before Vail and Aspen. Jiminy Peak, Wachusett, and Blue Hills in MA have had RFID for several years. Snowbird installed RFID gates at the base lifts in 2015. By the 2017-18 season the list in N. America included Panorama.
By 2017, the technology was mature enough that the cost was not longer considered a barrier. At least not in comparison to snowmaking equipment according to an April 2018 article in SnowOps. Blue Hills uses turnstiles that cost $2000-4000 but worked out a lease arrangement with DAG Systems, which has it's U.S. office near Boston. Axess is the vendor used by Alta. Vail and Aspen use hardware from SKIDATA but handle software separately. Aspen expanded the reach of their RFID cards into retail using scanners from another company that were much cheaper than what SKIDATA had to offer.
https://snowopsmag.com/index.php/re...ss-north-america-are-going-rfid-and-loving-it
". . .
Axess has installed RFID systems in 50 countries, generally beginning the process in early spring to be ready for the next ski season. “The initial costs for such a program are comparatively low,” said Kopetzky. “The whole investment for a smaller resort is less than the cost of two complete snow guns on a tower (including shaft, control panel, etc.).”
Orchiston [director of business technology] said, “We did a lot of investigation into ROI prior to purchasing the system in June 2017. We took into account various factors – for example, labor savings and fraud elimination. The technology frees up staff to work on other lifts, interact more with the guests and better focus on fraud control. . . . "
Old fashioned ticket checking at Blue unless they put one in this year. They only have the one chair.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Ah, that means they didn't keep the RFID gates. The experiment started in 2012 and the lease agreement was for three years. The French company was trying to get into the American market I think. Haven't come across any other U.S. ski area using DAG though.
Turns out the the first season Wachusett had RFID was 2016-17. People were mostly so comfortable with the gates the first time I went in 2017, I didn't realize RFID was so new.
alison wong
Angel Diva
A burning question:
For places like Sunshine Village in Banff & Taos in NM, you only get scanned lift ticket ONCE at the base of gondola (SSV) or lift 1 (Taos). Because you can only access the rest of trials from gondola or lift 1. In that case, is it still necessary to install RFID?
Does RFID serve other purposes? Like tracking traffic, crowds for lifts / trails? Which may help in the future if resorts need to install chair lifts / terrain expansion?
For places like Sunshine Village in Banff & Taos in NM, you only get scanned lift ticket ONCE at the base of gondola (SSV) or lift 1 (Taos). Because you can only access the rest of trials from gondola or lift 1. In that case, is it still necessary to install RFID?
Does RFID serve other purposes? Like tracking traffic, crowds for lifts / trails? Which may help in the future if resorts need to install chair lifts / terrain expansion?
marzNC
Angel Diva
It's pretty clear that RFID data is being used by most, if not all, of the ski areas/resorts that have implemented it. The initial reason for some places was to make it harder to ride lifts without paying by "sharing" a lift ticket or pass. But for Vail, they were obviously interested in much more. Presumably that's why the software development was done in house and ultimately resulted in EpicMix to allow people to track their ski time.
Knowing how many people are riding which lift and what time can help determine optimal speeds for a place like Alta that wants to keep the number of people on the slopes reasonable. Slowing down a lift means fewer people unloading during a given time period.
I know there is interest at Taos within the management team for RFID. Other capital investments are taking priority for now. The intangible benefit is that for most guests, it takes less time to open an RFID gate than to wait until their ticket has been scanned by a hand scanner. Also, when it's cold, not having to fish out a season pass is certainly better.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Definitely useful during late season when the temps can change quite a bit during one week.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Killington installed RFID for 2018-19. Also at Pico. They are using Axess gates. Someone who uses up all their Ikon days will have to get a One Pass for $5 for any additional days.
THE SEASON OF MORE: WINTER 2018/19
Fall is always an exciting time at Killington Resort—as anticipation of the impending ski and snowboard season peaks—and never more so than right now, with the mountain abuzz in construction activity.
That activity is part of Killington’s $25 million capital investment—the largest single year investment in the resort in more than 20 years—encompassing new lifts, extensive modernization of the K-1 Express Gondola, construction of tunnels for better skier flow across the resort, introduction of RFID ticketing and significant snowmaking improvements. It’s a big project, and one so sweeping that it will positively impact the on-mountain experience of nearly every Killington visitor.
. . ."
THE SEASON OF MORE: WINTER 2018/19
Fall is always an exciting time at Killington Resort—as anticipation of the impending ski and snowboard season peaks—and never more so than right now, with the mountain abuzz in construction activity.
That activity is part of Killington’s $25 million capital investment—the largest single year investment in the resort in more than 20 years—encompassing new lifts, extensive modernization of the K-1 Express Gondola, construction of tunnels for better skier flow across the resort, introduction of RFID ticketing and significant snowmaking improvements. It’s a big project, and one so sweeping that it will positively impact the on-mountain experience of nearly every Killington visitor.
. . ."
marzNC
Angel Diva
Waterville Valley started using RFID last season. What's different is that the technology by Affinity doesn't have to be on a card. Season passholders can get a "helmet sticker" for $10. That means no more worrying about forgetting the RFID card when changing jackets. WV also provides tracking of season stats for passholders.
What's New for the 2018-19 Season
›› GATELESS RFID
Last winter we debuted the new Gateless RFID, developed at Waterville Valley Resort by the Affinity Team, led by Chris Bradford. The new technology eliminated barcode scanning and gate readers, creating more skiing and riding with more direct lift access and less waiting in lines. For this winter we have made updates to the technology by improving readability, eliminating the RFID card deposit, and introducing the Direct-to-Lift (DTL) Reloadable Card. Season pass holders and frequent skier card users will also have the option to upgrade to a helmet sticker. Skiers and riders at Waterville Valley Resort will continue to experience the forefront of innovations to lift access and ticketing this season.
What's New for the 2018-19 Season
›› GATELESS RFID
Last winter we debuted the new Gateless RFID, developed at Waterville Valley Resort by the Affinity Team, led by Chris Bradford. The new technology eliminated barcode scanning and gate readers, creating more skiing and riding with more direct lift access and less waiting in lines. For this winter we have made updates to the technology by improving readability, eliminating the RFID card deposit, and introducing the Direct-to-Lift (DTL) Reloadable Card. Season pass holders and frequent skier card users will also have the option to upgrade to a helmet sticker. Skiers and riders at Waterville Valley Resort will continue to experience the forefront of innovations to lift access and ticketing this season.
MissySki
Angel Diva
How cool!
marzNC
Angel Diva
Good question. It's an added-cost option. From my sense of Waterville Valley so far, the season pass holders who have kids probably don't take trips out west. There are clearly a lot of people who own condos. WV is very much a family resort designed around people who drive up for the weekend. Several of the shops and restaurants in the Town Center are closed Mon & Tue, at least during early season. A few shops are open Thu-Sun.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Haven't kept track of which resort works with which RFID vendor, but it's clear that the different vendors offer different services. I know that Vail and Alta use different vendors. Both required the vendor to create new technology before full implementation. Whether or not gates are required depends on the type of RFID used. Some gates are fixed and others are movable, both up and down, and can swing away from the lift line location.
marzNC
Angel Diva
The history of RFID around SLC is interesting. Solitude was apparently the first to install RFID. The first season for RFID gates at Alta was 2007-08. Brighton had RFID by 2013. Snowbird opted to build the lodge at the summit first. Snowbird RFID gates were new for the 2015-16 season. These four ski areas/resorts are close by but have very different management styles and priorities.
Park City has RFID now that it's owned by Vail Resorts. Will be interesting to see what happens at Deer Valley under Alterra ownership. Aspen started planning for RFID in 2008. By 2013, Squaw had RFID.
I wanted to know when Brighton went to RFID because it's been operated any Boyne Resorts for quite while. Boyne has put a lot of money into snowmaking and lift upgrades in recent years. But none of the three Boyne resorts in the northeast or Big Sky have RFID. Having to get a sticky ticket using an Ikon pass was a bit of a pain at Loon and Sunday River.
Park City has RFID now that it's owned by Vail Resorts. Will be interesting to see what happens at Deer Valley under Alterra ownership. Aspen started planning for RFID in 2008. By 2013, Squaw had RFID.
I wanted to know when Brighton went to RFID because it's been operated any Boyne Resorts for quite while. Boyne has put a lot of money into snowmaking and lift upgrades in recent years. But none of the three Boyne resorts in the northeast or Big Sky have RFID. Having to get a sticky ticket using an Ikon pass was a bit of a pain at Loon and Sunday River.
marzNC
Angel Diva
I know there are plenty of skiers out in the Rockies who have their BC gear with them while riding a lift because they are heading out a gate for side country terrain. But I don't have any experience with backcountry skiing or avi gear besides reading a few articles.
In general, an RFID pass needs to be kept separate from any electronics or another RFID pass. When I got a new camera with WiFi capability, that meant one more item that needed to be kept away. One reason I like to have as many pockets as possible in a ski jacket and ski pants.
Found this article from 2017 that makes it sound like keeping an RFID pass a certain distance from a beacon is a good idea. Less of an issue than a cell phone or GoPro but better to be cautious.
https://www.mountainskillsacademy.com/preventing-avalanche-transceiver-interference/
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nopoleskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well Tremblant has 'hand held readers" the employees did not like my pass in a clear "pass' pocket built in on my coat. One suggested I "cut the plastic' out?? I asked her how would that work better? just scan the bar code please! others were aiming the red laser at my leg! A couple 'got it" and knew me by name and got it the 1st time.
I like the gates w/RIFD no taking your pass out every run (if at a bottom lift)I like that I can leave mine in a pocket by itself and sail thru the gate, yes it means Less employees, (sorry lifties)
I like the gates w/RIFD no taking your pass out every run (if at a bottom lift)I like that I can leave mine in a pocket by itself and sail thru the gate, yes it means Less employees, (sorry lifties)
