Question: Moguls - can you learn to ski the zipper line when you're no longer a kid?

[bounceswoosh]

Hey all,

I've always admired the amazing way that competitive mogul skiers rock down the hill. It's just so athletic, so powerful, so amazing.

I'm in my early 30s and still working on learning to ski moguls - not zipper line, just the basic stuff they teach you in ski school. Using all the parts of the bump, rounding the turn rather than cutting it short, etc. And even that is pretty hard for me. I realize that my issues with moguls are mainly psychological. I have the techniques, but sometimes I don't do a good job of applying them in the bumps.

But still. I really admire those zipper lines.

And so I wonder. Is it plausible to think I could still learn to ski the moguls in the competitive style? They don't really teach that style in group lessons, so I'm thinking I would have to go for private lessons if I were serious about it - and not a few of them. A major investment. And I wonder if someone past her early 20s can realistically train her body to move like that. Or maybe it's something you have to start when you're a kid.

Does learning to ski moguls in a less aggressive way help lay a foundation for zipper line bumps? I'm thinking that it must, at the very least by gaining familiarity and comfort with the shape of the bumps, and giving me techniques to fall back on.

I've taken a lot of classes this year, and watching the women's moguls yesterday, I found that I could do a much more technical analysis of how they were skiing than I could in years past. I could see the way their knees absorbed the highs and lows. I could see how their "turns" were almost more of an unweighting and twisting (okay maybe I'm not describing that very well) compared to the more gentle styles that use rounded turns.

I've always loved seeing people ski moguls like this. I know that it's hell on the knees. I know that I don't have the "take no prisoners" attitude to skiing that I wish I had. I just wonder if zipper line mogul technique is something I should let go of, or something I can work toward.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[ski diva]

Yep, I was watching that with my tongue handing out, too.

That looks SOOOO COOL. Also very hard on the knees.

Still, something I wish I could do, too.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Does learning to ski moguls in a less aggressive way help lay a foundation for zipper line bumps? I'm thinking that it must, at the very least by gaining familiarity and comfort with the shape of the bumps, and giving me techniques to fall back on.

Yes. Like anything else in skiing, bump skiing in the zipper line is at the tail end of the progression. Get familiar with the technique required for skiing bumps, and eventually you will be more and more in the fall line and skiing them with increasing speed. (IMO, it's a looonnng learning curve, though - at least it has been for me!) And this is a type of terrain skiing where the upper body and pole planting position are VERY important in maintaining the line and balance.

Just as a beginning skier traverses and then turns - and longingly looks at those who can just hit the fall line and face downhill the entire way - the learning curve is similar in bump skiing. Keep at it, maybe try a lesson once in awhile. As with most of skiing, it has a huge "mileage" factor.

 

[skithesierras]

Yes - watching the bump skiers yesterday was awesome!

At 49, I'm still hoping to master bumps. I plan to take some bump clinics/lessons *sometime*. So don't stop believing you can - you're still young!

 

[drjoyous]

Hmmm. My thoughts about bumps are this: in the middle ages, people thought that when you were born, you were "given" just so many heart beats and orgasms (!) and, once you had hit your "limit," you'd die. Ok, they weren't very medically modern.

But I feel that way about those coolly (sp?) ridden bumps. You have just so many of those in your knees before your knees give out. If you spend years learning how to do bumps in that particularly professional fashion, you will spend many days mashing those knees.

I love bumps...but only manage them quietly, softly, and slowly--just enough to train me for quick turns in the trees.

 

[mountainxtc]

yes you can learn! it's never too late, although your body will resist and complain more than it would have when you were a kid! you want to find a program like this, I've only heard good things about them, and I'm sure there are others like it out there.....

I'm watching the men's moguls right now, all 4 canadians in the final, yahoo!!

 

[SkiBam]

Yeah, I've been watching the men too. Amazing! I think moguls is one of my favourite events (though I love slalom too) to watch. I love to ski them, too, but, boy, not like that!!

 

[mountainxtc]

I'm going to the mens slalom

love to ski the bumps too, but again, nothing like that!!

 

[SuZieCoyote]

Bumps

I can't ski the zipper line, but I just started doing bumps last year at age 55. I cam up to four or five "teeth" of the zipper now, then traverse a few bumps, turn and head down another few teeth. I stop every so often and huff and puff and then head down again. I sometimes feel it the next day in my knees, but not bad and the fun is worth it. At 30 you are so young! I've no doubt you can get there if that is your desire.

That said, I've been told by teachers that modern mogul ski racing (like we've watched on the Olympics) is just hell on your knees, no matter what your age. Those young girls doing it have frequently had six or more knee surgeries. If you're driven for a medal, maybe it is worth this kind of misery. I actually enjoy seeing people gracefully navigate the moguls a bit slower and with more elegance than just tearing down the field. It is all a matter of taste, I suppose. I go neither tear-arse fast, nor masterfully elegant, heh. But I do have fun!

 

[mountainxtc]

learning to ski the zipper line is something you would do just so you knew you could do it. it's not really a way to ski the bumps for fun on a daily basis. I am sure that none of the olympic athletes spend time zippering when they're just out for a recreational cruise! we (I think I can speak for most women here) like to be in control and maintain a consistent speed, and that's how we teach people to ski moguls (safety is also a factor). skiing the zipper line is about generating speed, and it's the nature of the beast that you will finish the line faster than you started - that's why it's used in competition - not to mention the fact that it wreaks havoc on your body!

 

[evaino]

I agree - Olympic bump skiers are amazing!

You can definitely learn in your 30s. But it takes time. Technique is part of it as are quick feet (which is the only part that has any genetic limiting factor), and learning to pick a good path is also big.

I agree with mountainxtc - not sure you really want to ski zipper line on a regular basis, but it is cool to be able to do it. That doesn't mean that you're stuck doing slow turns around multiple bumps. There are many fun ways to ski moguls. I enjoy the CSIA approach to bumps, but I also love to mash the big soft ones, and if I see the right bump, I will launch off it. I also enjoy zipper lines on occassion. In my opinion, the key to bumps is to get in them and to have fun.

I started trying to skiing moguls in my twenties, but only when conditions were perfect, and it took forever to get down. I'd steer clear of bumps under chair lifts because I didn't want people to see how bad I was at them.

It wasn't until I was 29 that I decided to stop wishing I was in the bumps and start being in the bumps. I skied bumps every chance I got - even under the chair lift. I got a couple of good bump lessons, but mostly it was time. I fell a lot. But I find bump falls don't hurt much because you don't have a whole lot of speed.

I was already a ski instructor at this point, so I was tumbling around in the bumps in uniform! One time I had a complete firesale (even lost my sunglasses), and I got a "can I have a lesson?" comment from the chairlift. (I replied "sure - come on in here" and she shook her head and zipped it!).

That's my long winded way of saying - keep on trying; it will come! And it will be awesome when it does. Also do yourself a favour and ask at the ski school for an instructor who's good in the bumps and take a bump private. And then practice a whole lot more. But remember that even the practice will be fun!

Elsbeth

 

[Gloria]

Hey all,


I've taken a lot of classes this year, and watching the women's moguls yesterday, I found that I could do a much more technical analysis of how they were skiing than I could in years past. I could see the way their knees absorbed the highs and lows. I could see how their "turns" were almost more of an unweighting and twisting (okay maybe I'm not describing that very well) compared to the more gentle styles that use rounded turns.

I've always loved seeing people ski moguls like this. I know that it's hell on the knees. I know that I don't have the "take no prisoners" attitude to skiing that I wish I had. I just wonder if zipper line mogul technique is something I should let go of, or something I can work toward.

Anyway, thoughts?

Yes you can learn to ski the zipperline at any age BUT take a lesson from a competent mogul skier. Your observations are good, but next time you watch note the difference in knee angulation of a mogul skier vs a recreational skier or race oriented skier. It's the lack of knee angulation and the ability of the skier to keep the knees and skis underneath that make it both a pleasant and knee friendly experience. If you try skiing the zipperline with typical angulation, as many of us have...you'll find that not only is it tougher to compress, but it's really really hard and bad for the knees to extend into the trough this way. With less angulation, it feels like you are simply standing back up in the trough, with more the feet tend to slide sideways and and simultaneously slam into the trough, at which point your knees are in an incredibly vulnerable position while taking a hit. There is some upper body weighting techniques that are combined with all this so you definately want to learn from someone skilled rather than go at it on your own. The good news though, is if you do learn proper technique it isn't as bad on your knees as most think but you can totally destroy them if you try without proper instruction.
Have fun!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Yes you can learn to ski the zipperline at any age BUT take a lesson from a competent mogul skier. Your observations are good, but next time you watch note the difference in knee angulation of a mogul skier vs a recreational skier or race oriented skier.
...
Have fun!

Thanks for all of these pointers - I'll keep an eye out. I've taken a bunch of group lessons with an instructor who actually used to be a competitive mogul skier, so I think if want to go that direction I'll approach him. He's familiar enough with how I ski moguls that I think he would advise that I keep working on more gentle lines before trying the zipper line, and he'd certainly be right. Still, it's good to have goals, and I do want to eventually have the choice of skiing the zipper line when/if I feel like it - even if I'd only do it one run out of 50.

 

[Gloria]

Hey there you go! Definately talk to him, and next time you are on a groomed slope with him ask him to demonstrate and explain a "short swing" turn for you and/or express interest in learning one. Watching him on a groomed slope you will be able to see the "mechanics" and better understand the technique without all those bumps in the way.

 

[SkiBam]

Our ski school was at Mont Orford (in the Eastern Townships) yesterday, where they had made a nice bump field on a not-very-steep section of the hill. Once my lessons were over (none of my students were keen on bumps) I decided I had to try this as it was un-steep enough that I thought I could maybe manage a zipper line. I approached it with some trepidation as I was in the ski school uniform and didn't want to disgrace the school. Anyway, to my surprise, I actually skied the zipper line - kept thinking my speed was going to get out of control, but it didn't (any steeper and it very likely would have). Knees felt fine, though this morning my back was telling me that skiing like this too much might not be the best idea for this senior citizen! I generally approach the bumps in a much more gentle fashion.

Anyway, bottom line if you want to practise zipper lining: look for bumps on a gentle slope.

 

[HotChocolate]

Hi Monique,
I'm in the bumps alot more this season and I WILL learn to ski the zipper line at some point. You just have to keep at it which is fairly easy if you have the will power and it sounds like you do. I find that watching mogul instruction DVD's over and over has helped me quite a bit. The words and movements of the "instructor" stay in my head so when I'm out practicing with friends I am recalling the instruction...but that's how I learn maybe it will work for you as well.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Kano]

Here's where I am when it comes to bumps:

Never mind zipper line, I just want to lose that "oh Shicks!" feeling at every turn!

Karen in Boise

 

[skithesierras]

Kano,

That's exactly my sentiment!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Hi Monique,
I'm in the bumps alot more this season and I WILL learn to ski the zipper line at some point. You just have to keep at it which is fairly easy if you have the will power and it sounds like you do. I find that watching mogul instruction DVD's over and over has helped me quite a bit. The words and movements of the "instructor" stay in my head so when I'm out practicing with friends I am recalling the instruction...but that's how I learn maybe it will work for you as well.

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks! Can you recommend a particular DVD?

I'm on the Breck lesson pass, so I've actually only skied without an instructor two days this season - both last weekend. So at this point I can pretty much always hear the instructor - usually because one is telling me what to do!

One move I haven't gotten down yet is what my instructor called the "mule kick" - as you're turning around the mogul, pull your heels back. He demonstrates it in an exaggerated way, so that his heels actually do lift and it really looks like a double mule kick. I'm not sure if it's a strength thing or what, but I don't feel like anything happens when I try that.

 

[Gloria]

One move I haven't gotten down yet is what my instructor called the "mule kick" - as you're turning around the mogul, pull your heels back. He demonstrates it in an exaggerated way, so that his heels actually do lift and it really looks like a double mule kick. I'm not sure if it's a strength thing or what, but I don't feel like anything happens when I try that.

Timing more than strength. Essentially what you are wanting to achieve is for the tip of your ski to maintain contact with the snow as you drop into the rut. Essentially it is to maintain solid edge control and prevent inadvertant airs and jolts that will throw you off your line. As you are coming around the bump just as your ski tips start to get a little air shift your weight to the balls of your feet and suck your heels up towards your rearend.

I can't remember the name of the really young Japanese girl with the huge airs that made it to the finals. She was an excellent "driver" or very good at this move. If you can figure out her name I bet there are plenty of vids on youtube or the like to watch her on.