Mid-Atlantic/Southeast skiing (PA, NJ, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, TN) for 2024-25

[marzNC]

I'm heading to Coeur d'Alene Idaho for meetings next week and if I see snow at upper elevations I'm literally going to salivate my way through the conference.

I'm doing a ski safari to Idaho in March. Going to check out Tamarack and Brundage using the Indy Pass. Flying to Spokane has been an idea for a while.

 

[marzNC]

The NC ski areas are not dealing with any major damage, meaning buildings, lifts, and snowmaking infrastructure. There is plenty of small debris to clean up. The bigger issue for the upcoming ski season will be the roads and the situation for the towns where people usually stay overnight.

Updates from App, Beech, Sugar, and Cataloochee are in this SAM article.

October 2, 2024

North Carolina Ski Areas Sustain Minimal Damage from Helene, Communiti

SAM Magazine—Banner Elk, N.C., Oct. 2, 2024—Ski areas in the mountains of western North Carolina appear to have suffered relatively minimal damage from Hur

www.saminfo.com

 

[marzNC]

With a sale of Elk announced as coming soon, there are probably people wondering if Alterra or Vail Resorts would be interested. I don't think so.

Vail Resorts already has several PA resorts that serve to make an Epic pass of interest to skiers/boarders who live in western or eastern PA. While JF/BB isn't a typical "ski resort" it's close enough to Philly for day trips. The houses close to the slopes are probably owned by people who have considered JF and/or BB as an "amenity" for decades. I drove around the area a bit in early October while staying at Shawnee on Delaware for a few days. I noticed that one of the local resorts close to BB that's around a lake has an indoor water park.

Alterra was formed as a partnership that included KSL Capital. KSL Resorts is another company related to KSL Capital. Camelback and Blue Mountain are now operated by KSL Resorts. Both are 4-season resorts with the ability to host conferences, large weddings, etc. during the non-snow seasons. It took a few years after KSL Resorts bought Camelback before it was added to Ikon. Blue was bought later and the family that owned it remains actively involved. Blue is also on Ikon for 2024-25.

KSL Resorts has created a combined pass for Camelback and Blue. The unlimited Peak-to-Peak pass is $999 (until Oct. 14) for ages 6-64. In comparison, the unlimited pass for just Camelback is $719. Seniors 65-69 and 70+ can get much cheaper season passes for Camelback. Blue Mountain's unlimited pass is $799. Blue has a senior pass for 70+. A child 9 and under can be added for only $79, up to three kids.

 

[tinymoose]

FWIW, I've always gotten the impression that JFBB gets more of the NYC metro crowd than Philly. I would say Philly largely goes to Blue, although some more diehard skiers to make the trek up to Elk or Camelback. I think we've always been the odd Philly people out going to JFBB and Montage over the others, and that was largely to avoid the crowds at the other mountains. Now that JFBB is also jam packed on weekends, we exclusively ski Montage now.

 

[marzNC]

FWIW, I've always gotten the impression that JFBB gets more of the NYC metro crowd than Philly. I would say Philly largely goes to Blue, although some more diehard skiers to make the trek up to Elk or Camelback. I think we've always been the odd Philly people out going to JFBB and Montage over the others, and that was largely to avoid the crowds at the other mountains. Now that JFBB is also jam packed on weekends, we exclusively ski Montage now.

Good to know. There are plenty of New Yorkers who go west into the Poconos for leisure time activities during the summer.

Who goes to Camelback on a regular basis?

I didn't realize that Jack Frost was an upside-down ski area. I drove down the road as far as possible to take a peek up the hill. There was a really nice view from the clubhouse of the Jack Frost National Golf Course. That's actually a bit higher than the top of the Jack Frost ski area.

 

[tinymoose]

I think Camelback is a combo of NYC metro/north Jersey crowd b/c proximity and diehards from elsewhere who really love the mountain. I personally have never gotten the hype around Camelback. Terrain doesn't seem super exciting imo, and it's soooo crowded. Plus you get to pay for parking! Granted I've only ever been there a couple times midweek for demo days long ago.

Yeah, JFBB is an upside down mountain with the lodge and everything at the top. They do a really good job with trees on the sides of some of their blue and black trails, and it's also nice a lot of their black terrain is separated off to the side from the rest of the hill, so it keeps it a bit quieter over there. Granted, again I haven't been back since Vail bought them b/c it sounds like it just gets so crowded there anymore. We used to have our Montage passes, and then get a 4-pack of tickets to JFBB to change it up week-to-week.

 

[marzNC]

The price for a 4-day Epic Day pass went up a bit in early October to $204 for the 22 resort option with no peak dates. That option includes all Epic locations in PA, plus NH and the midwest. Can add holiday blackout dates for $38. Peak dates are right after Thanksgiving, Christmas week, Saturday of MLK weekend, and Sat-Sun of Pres. Day weekend.

Note that it's possible to get an Epic Day Pass for 1-7 days. One day in PA is $59 with no blackouts, while it comes out $47 per day if going for 7 days. The per day cost shows up on the webpage when selecting options.

In comparison for people who ski in PA, an Indy Pass (hard to get) with blackouts is $349. That provides 2 days at each location. Meaning all over the USA and Canada. PA locations include Blue Knob, Shawnee, and Montage. There are also Indy locations in VA and WV that are relatively close for people who live in DC/NoVA.

Ikon only has Snowshoe in the mid-Atlantic. Close enough for people to drive from Pittsburgh or DC/NoVA but no reason to drive south from Philly. There are pass options for Snowshoe only that start at $199 and go up to about $400.

Epic Day Pass for 7 days, as of mid-October 2024:

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Blue Mountain in PA is also on Ikon. I actually skied there a few times last season using my Ikon pass. Blue is usually very crowded on weekends, but they have good snowmaking so sometimes are the first or one of the first to open in Philadelphia area.

 

[marzNC]

Blue Mountain in PA is also on Ikon. I actually skied there a few times last season using my Ikon pass. Blue is usually very crowded on weekends, but they have good snowmaking so sometimes are the first or one of the first to open in Philadelphia area.

Hard to remember that Blue and Camelback were added to Ikon. That happened after KSL Resorts became responsible for operations at both resorts. Wonder how many people will check them out for more than a day because they have Ikon, especially on a weekend. Windham joining Ikon was a big deal for the Catskills since it's close to Hunter, which is on Epic. But Windham may not stay on Ikon since the business model is shifting a bit.

I stopped by Blue on a Saturday in early October. The place was very busy with mountain bikers using the lifts and people doing activities around the summit lodge, including a large wedding and a birthday party in a private room.

Was funny to read a letter from a few years before Blue opened in 1977. It was a professional assessment from a ski industry consultant that clearly stated the idea of creating a business based around building a ski hill near the town of Little Gap was not a good choice. The original name was Little Gap, but became Blue Mountain 1989. The founder had learned that people from farther away thought the name implied the hill was small. Blue in PA is actually one of the bigger 4-season resorts in the mid-Atlantic. The founder's daughter is still part-owner and the CEO after the sale to a KSL-related company in 2021.

History display at Blue Mountain in summit lodge, October 2024


Not quite fall colors in the Poconos in early October 2024, view over summit parking lot

 

[marzNC]

Blue Mountain in PA is also on Ikon. I actually skied there a few times last season using my Ikon pass.

What did you think of the terrain at Blue?

 

[tinymoose]

What did you think of the terrain at Blue?

Not Olesya, but I've skied there a lot. Used to do my adult race clinic there.

Blue definitely feels much larger than most mountains in eastern PA. Similar to Montage it's around 1k vert w/o the weird half mountain split Montage has. Blue is kind of light on good beginner terrain. Paradise is a good beginner trail, but Burma Rd should probably be a blue b/c it's narrow with switchbacks, but it's the only good way down for newbies from the left side of the mountain (when facing downhill). Otherwise, they have a good assortment of blue and black trails. Nothing super exciting, but a good number. I will say I REALLY enjoy their new trail Free Fall when snow is soft (they don't groom most of it). Lots of people still call Free Fall "Coming Soon" b/c it appeared that way on the trail map for years. lol

Blue does have the ability to pump out a lot of snow, but I have to say the quality of their snow leaves something to be desired. It's not really their fault, though. They're far enough south their snow has a tendency to have that icy, granular consistency at times, kind of like a snow cone.

 

[marzNC]

Blue does have the ability to pump out a lot of snow, but I have to say the quality of their snow leaves something to be desired. It's not really their fault, though. They're far enough south their snow has a tendency to have that icy, granular consistency at times, kind of like a snow cone.

That may not be so much because of location and local weather around Blue, but more about the type of snowguns involved. In northern VA, Massanutten's snow cover is essentially 100% from snowmaking since average snowfall for the entire season is under 30 inches. The newer tower-mounted fan guns and new fixed stick guns are set up by the snowmakers to put out really nice dry snow when there is enough base and only a topping is needed. When base building is required, wetter snow is more important.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

What did you think of the terrain at Blue?

@tinymoose gave a great summary above. I don't have much to add.

 

[tinymoose]

That may not be so much because of location and local weather around Blue, but more about the type of snowguns involved. In northern VA, Massanutten's snow cover is essentially 100% from snowmaking since average snowfall for the entire season is under 30 inches. The newer tower-mounted fan guns and new fixed stick guns are set up by the snowmakers to put out really nice dry snow when there is enough base and only a topping is needed. When base building is required, wetter snow is more important.

Some it may be their old tower guns, but Blue has made a concerted effort to replace a lot of those with newer fan guns. I was hoping/thought it would make a big difference, and maybe it did a bit, but not a ton. Not sure how much they've replaced at this point?

FWIW, Massanutten, while farther south, has a much higher elevation above sea level than Blue. On the Snow has Massanutten's base at 1750' vs. Blue at 460'.

 

[marzNC]

Some it may be their old tower guns, but Blue has made a concerted effort to replace a lot of those with newer fan guns. I was hoping/thought it would make a big difference, and maybe it did a bit, but not a ton. Not sure how much they've replaced at this point?

From what I can tell, the upgrades to snowmaking infrastructure at Blue started in 2023. Sounds like this season will be noticeably different on the trails where the new snowguns were installed over the summer. Sounds like automation was installed at Blue relatively early compared to other mountains in the mid-Atlantic.

July 2024

https://www.powder.com/news/blue-mountain-snowmaking-upgrade

" . . .
Notably, Blue has added 132 stick guns and six fan guns to increase their snowmaking capabilities by 17.5%. The new equipment will keep Blue's trails fresh throughout the season, and will aide in opening more terrain at the beginning of the season.

The snowmaking upgrades include enhanced production on Come Around (Blue Square), Lower Lazy (Blue Square), Falls (Double Black Diamond) and Lower Sidewinder (Black Diamond) trails.

Blue's snowmaking automation software also received a "complete revamp" which aides snowmakers in creating the region's "best conditions".
. . ."

 

[tinymoose]

Blue was replacing guns pre-KSL/Ikon. It's either something in the terrain/elevation or they're intentionally pushing out sno cone slurry b/c it's more durable with the traffic they get. Blue is one of the more tech advanced mountains in the area b/c $$$ and it's not b/c of outdated equipment.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

I hate using profanity online, but I'm compelled to utter that four-letter word that, colloquially, is pretty nasty in the mid-Atlantic. WEATHER.

I'm reading not encouraging reports re the WEATHER prognostications for our region. Way above-average temps all winter. I'm not happy. Someone please make me feel better . . .

 

[marzNC]

I'm reading not encouraging reports re the WEATHER prognostications for our region. Way above-average temps all winter. I'm not happy. Someone please make me feel better . . .

While I read long-term forecasts, I don't pay much attention to them.

Snowshoe got snow recently for SkiSoutheast to post a blog entry with pictures. :-)

For what it's worth, here's what Zach of OpenSnow said about WV and NC when he looked at historical data during La Niña winters. Below are just excerpts from his post on Oct. 16, 2024. He also has the Catskills, western NY, and all of PA to cover under the heading Mid-Atlantic.

West Virginia
"Two out of the six La Niña years produced well above-normal snowfall, two produced near-normal snowfall, and two produced well below-normal snowfall.

This shows that weak La Niña years have strong variability in West Virginia with equal chances of above-normal, normal, and a below-normal snow season."

North Carolina
"Four out of the six La Niña years produced well above-normal snowfall, one produced normal snowfall, and one produced well below-normal snowfall.

This shows that it is more common to have a above-normal snow season near and around the Smoky Mountains in North Carolina."

 

[BlizzardBabe]

Thanx for that effort, @marzNC. There's enuf to stress about these days -- I don't want to have nightmares about the WEATHER too.

 

[marzNC]

The NC ski areas are not dealing with any major damage, meaning buildings, lifts, and snowmaking infrastructure. There is plenty of small debris to clean up. The bigger issue for the upcoming ski season will be the roads and the situation for the towns where people usually stay overnight.

Updates from App, Beech, Sugar, and Cataloochee are in this SAM article.

October 2, 2024

North Carolina Ski Areas Sustain Minimal Damage from Helene, Communiti

SAM Magazine—Banner Elk, N.C., Oct. 2, 2024—Ski areas in the mountains of western North Carolina appear to have suffered relatively minimal damage from Hur

www.saminfo.com

Boone has recovered enough to welcome tourists for fall colors.

The Blue Ridge Parkway in NC remains closed and is unlikely to re-open before next spring. The NC section is normally closed all winter because the roadway near and in the many tunnels is often icy once temperatures drop in the mountains. Most, if not all, of the VA Blue Ridge Parkway and the Skyline Drive in the Shenandoah National Park is open.

October 16, 2024 (Charlotte, NC)

Mountain towns invite ‘thoughtful’ visitors for fall colors

The fall color season is important to the economy of the mountains, contributing millions to the tourist industry. Many local businesses depend on this to make their annual profit as well.

www.wsoctv.com