Mental vs. physical?

[Tammy]

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself and to ask my first question of this collective wisdom. I'm new to this forum as well as to skiing; just started in January 2008 and have become a full-blown addict (bought my own gear and have even taken day or two off work to sate my habit ).

This is an interesting topic from my perspective as a beginner. Over the last year or so I've taken 4 lessons and the very last one I took was quite a confidence-booster. The instructor observed me going down a mellow green run (basically working on parallel turns) which was pretty easy for me. He then said I was ready for steeper terrain so that we could work on pole plants so we then went down a fairly steep blue. It was nice and wide so I didn't fall or get too freaked out by it; but it was pretty tiring on my knees and had to pull off to the side to relax for a minute every so often. Well, pole plants made much more sense to me after that run and the instructor said that in the future, I should continue to ski steeper terrain (blues) since my turns were looking good and I was in control.

So, that being said, I have a question for the divas! How much of this sport is mental and how much of it is physical? Mentally, I know that I should be skiing the steeper stuff and that the instructor I had was right-- practice makes perfect-- but what defines overconfidence with one's abilities in this kind of situation? Or, I guess to put it another way, I've interpreted this instructor's words to mean that I should be going a little beyond my comfort zone in order to improve, but when is the correct time to say to yourself, "I think that's a little over my head for right now?"

I know that greens and blues on one mountain do not necessarily translate to the same experience on others; but for this season I'd ultimately like to ski at Missoula's local mountain, Snowbowl-- which is not a beginner hill. Most of the terrain there is quite steep although there are one or two "green" runs. Most of the time I ski at Discovery Basin and that's where I took my last lesson. I'm kind of wondering if I should just bite the bullet next weekend and give the green stuff a try at Snowbowl on my own, take a lesson there with that in mind, or go up there with a friend who knows the green runs?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom you can share.

Cheers,

Tammy

 

[Monkeygirl]

I find a lot of skiing goes on in your head. Once in a while I'll get freaked out at the top of a steep icy run. That's when I'll have problems. If I stay calm and confident I can do almost anything.

 

[Pequenita]

Hi Tammy, welcome!!

I need to caveat this by saying that I learned how to ski before age 10 and I moved from greens to blues based more on peer pressure than anything else. But, I had my skiing renaissance in 2002 and began skiing terrain that I previously didn't think I could ski after skiing in a group with someone whose form wasn't as strong as mine. I basically thought to myself, "If he can ski this looking like that, I definitely can ski it."

Based on this, and based on many -- not all, but many -- women underestimating their physical abilities, I think that much of what holds us back from more difficult terrain is mental. I think the time to move on is when you're applying all the the skills you were taught and are starting to get bored. Being bored can sometimes lead to laziness; moving up to more challenging terrain will reinforce the stuff you learned in lessons. Hubris is key. Others may disagree, but I feel there is no shame in popping off the skis and walking down if you find yourself on terrain that is too challenging for you on a particular day.

I say do what makes you most comfortable at Snowbowl because my bet is that it's your brain rather than your physical ability that's at issue here. So if taking a lesson is what will put your mind at ease, then that's the route to take. But if all you need is a buddy, then go that route. Same for the solo method, although since you're phrasing it as "bite the bullet", it seems like you're a little skittish to take this route.

Best of luck, and keep us posted with what you decide!

 

[altagirl]

I'd put it at about 75% mental and 25% physical. I mean, surely - you need some strength and fitness and balance to ski well - and your gear has to fit right and be appropriate for what you're doing. And there are obviously physical skills to acquire and movements to learn in order to learn to ski. But like most sports, the hardest part to master is the mental part.

I mean, you can do everything right on groomed snow and KNOW that you should pretty much do the same thing on crud or ice or bumps or when there are trees or exposure... and while sure there are little technique differences there - what's the big thing that holds most everyone back? You hit something different and you tense up, and then it sets off a whole bad chain of events. If you could stay relaxed and confident, chances are you'd be able to roll with it and master those skills in no time. But instead you have to wrestle with everything going on in your head. It's definitely the harder part (of most sports) to master.

 

[Tammy]

Thanks for all of the advice so far .

To quote Pequenita:

"Others may disagree, but I feel there is no shame in popping off the skis and walking down if you find yourself on terrain that is too challenging for you on a particular day."

I wholeheartedly agree with you there! My philosophy at this point is to leave my pride in the parking lot so I can get the rest of me safely back down the hill . My second to last time out, I ended up doing that down a narrow and cork-screwy cat track which was beginning to give me the willies. I've noticed that steeper runs don't bother me so much as narrow runs do.

Anyway, hopefully the snow will be good by the end of this week-- it's been getting a little melty up here in Montana-- and I'll let you all know what happens.

Cheers,

Tammy

 

[Appennini gal]

Hi Tammy,

sounds like we are going through the same experiences. I started skiing last Feb and I am now working on pole planting as well. I hate narrow runs too! I feel really uncomfortable knowing that I can't do nice wide turns...It is obviously all in the head, after all they thought us how to stop and control speed in our first lessons, right?
Right now I am skiing blues, but really looking forward to move up on the reds (here in Europe we go green, blue, red, black). Not sure when I will take the plunge...it sounds like you really have to know the pole planting technique to venture on steeper terrain. Last time I went down an easier red, felt pretty comfortable. I will probably practise on this one till, to quote Pequeinita "I get bored".
When I can't be on the slopes I like to watch some tutorial videos on line. The ones I like are:[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGew5K2I-U&feature=related"]YouTube - Learn to ski (Chapter 5 - From blue to red terrain)[/ame]
www.sportskool.com/skiing

Keep us posted!

Ciao

 

[sleddog]

As an instructor, I always adhere to the mantra: old material - new terrain, new material - old terrain. So with that in mind, as you're learning to use your poles for timing of the turns, I'd stick to terrain you're comfortable skiing, as you get the skills in your muscle memory, move up to more challenging terrain.

I've always hated seeing parents taking their children on the more advanced runs, because they always revert to the wedge even if they're skiing parallel on easier terrrain. Bragging rights are a real hindrance to skier improvement.

Try the new mountain - but stick to the greens until you find out how their terrain is compared to your home area. I'm sure even the tougher ski areas have some terrain that is appropriate for your level - it's just a question of whether it's enough terrain to keep you interested, or if it's only one run.

 

[altagirl]

"Others may disagree, but I feel there is no shame in popping off the skis and walking down if you find yourself on terrain that is too challenging for you on a particular day."

I would recommend learning to sideslip/side step down rather than walk. I think you are generally MUCH safer on your skis than trying to walk down in your boots - whether it's on ice where you can slip and go for a ride or if you're out West and off-piste, particularly - often times you can stand on the snow on your skis, but take them off and you will sink to your hips on foot. Trying to walk down can be a nightmare.

 

[Robyn]

While it's certainly a different feel for those of us who have skied for years there are definitely still times I get onto a slope that freaks me out for one reason or another. I often use the mantra in my head "commit to the turn". It's so hard when you're on something steep or icy and you have to convince yourself to make that turn which inevitably gives you a point where your skis are pointed straight down the hill. On those points I say just before time to initiate the next turn "commit to the turn" and if I concentrate on making that single commitment it helps me mellow out and make it through. There is a lot of mental that goes into skiing whether a newbie or an expert, especially if you have a healthy dose of natural fear built in. I still battle my fear of tree skiing every time I go in (really, horrible experience as a child) but I just concentrate on making the next move. I love when I get to follow someone in (thanks Pinto and family!) because they get to concentrate on picking the line so I can then concentrate on how I'm going to ski it. But it's all completely mental, I know I can do something but sometimes I have to convince my body.

 

[geargrrl]

I would recommend learning to sideslip/side step down rather than walk. I think you are generally MUCH safer on your skis than trying to walk down in your boots - whether it's on ice where you can slip and go for a ride or if you're out West and off-piste, particularly - often times you can stand on the snow on your skis, but take them off and you will sink to your hips on foot. Trying to walk down can be a nightmare.

I agree - a walker on a ski run is a hazard as no one automatically looks for a walker. Plus, the post holes trash the grooming, and if you drop a ski that is an entirely different hazard.

Side slipping is one of those skills that when you master it, you'll be able to slide slip down just about anything that you can't ski. Frankly, it is a skill you should be have before you start exploring any new terrain, in case you need it.

gg

 

[Robyn]

In addition, side slipping is a great way to get a better feel for edging. We use it coaching all the time.

 

[Christy]

but what defines overconfidence with one's abilities in this kind of situation? Or, I guess to put it another way, I've interpreted this instructor's words to mean that I should be going a little beyond my comfort zone in order to improve, but when is the correct time to say to yourself, "I think that's a little over my head for right now?"

I've been taking a lot of lessons lately and that is where I am comfortable doing new stuff. I trust my teacher (same guy every time) and know he is going to push me beyond my comfort level but not ask me to do something I can't do. It's hard for me to push myself on my own, and I end up getting frustrated, so it's worth the $$$.

If you're by yourself and want to push it, you can approach it from a logical angle. Have I ever done anything like this before? If not, how big a leap is it? Are conditions good? What about it freaks me out and how can I mitigate that? If I get into trouble, can I side slip down? What is LOGICALLY the worst that might happen? (Injuries can happen anywhere but is there something different about this particular run). Work it out in your head, see if it makes for you to try it on your own.

I personally think the mental game is huge in all sports. Hitting a baseball, riding a horse, skiing...you name it, your attitude/confidence plays a huge role.

 

[WildKitten]

I should be going a little beyond my comfort zone in order to improve

This is the only way to improve.

When I look back on my ski progression over the past 5 years I think it has had everything to do with challenging myself, and it's a whole lot mental over physical. But, I did it in my own time.

When I felt ready to ski a blue I'd ski a blue then go back to the comfort of a green Then I'd ski another blue, then back to a green. I slowly found that skiing blues made skiing greens much easier. And, the easier the greens became the less I wanted to ski them. I actually wanted to start challenging myself on blues.

I would suggest your challenge yourself, at your pace. Wait until you get a nice groomed surface on a nice wide trail. TAKE YOUR TIME. Stop if and when you need. Make some nice slow comfortable turns.

It's a wonderful feeling to break through a barrier and get to the next level.

You'll know when the time is right. Good luck.

 

[Pequenita]

I agree - a walker on a ski run is a hazard as no one automatically looks for a walker. Plus, the post holes trash the grooming, and if you drop a ski that is an entirely different hazard.

Side slipping is one of those skills that when you master it, you'll be able to slide slip down just about anything that you can't ski. Frankly, it is a skill you should be have before you start exploring any new terrain, in case you need it.

gg

I agree, but I honestly don't think many beginning classes teach it. The only times I've come across it were in -- of all things -- a bumps class and instructor training course, for what the instructor should know, not what to teach.

 

[Jilly]

Slide slipping is part of the edging skills that we teach in the CSIA progression. Basically if you're slide slipping, your not edging, so this is how to feel the difference. PSIA may have a different progressin. But we teach it as soon as the skis are parallel.

 

[amanda]

For me there is definitely a huge mental component to skiing. I would say that fear and apprehension are the two biggest hinderances to my improvement as a skier. With that said, in my opinion the only way to improve at anything is to challenge yourself and to keep stepping outside of your comfort zone. I find that skiing behind someone else can be really helpful when trying to overcome mental hangups on harder terrain. I've noticed that if I follow DBF's line down things that are challenging for me I ski them much better than I would on my own. It eliminates alot of my inner doubts because I focus on following his line instead of being afraid. I also like to use little mantras like Robyn's "commit to the turn." I think that reminding yourself what you need to do like this really helps you to focus on skiing aggressively instead of being afraid.

 

[SkiBam]

I'll also put in a plug for side slipping. It's something I always cover in my lessons, although people sometimes say they don't like it. But I tell them it's not only an excellent balance exercise (see what happens if your weight is back, or forward) that will improve their skiing, but it can give them the confidence to know they can "get down" almost anything.

 

[altagirl]

I know when I've done some camps it's a skill we worked on in several different ways. One was just an edging drill where you stand on fairly steep groomed terrain and have someone below you grab the ends of your poles and you dig your edges in to keep them from pulling you down. The body position you naturally have to assume to prevent being pulled down the hill is what you want for skiing steep terrain. It teaches you the position where you have maximum grip and then you can release and edge and feel the range in between.

And the second was to actually hit a groomer and throw your skis sideways and sideslip like 100 feet or so at speed - and try and stay in a straight line - no drifting forwards or backwards. It's like sliding a rail... but, minus the rail - you're just doing it on a groomer. And it's always harder than you think - I remember I kept drifting forwards - it took some work to straighten it out. Part 2 of the drill is doing that then switching sides back and forth. But it's one of those good drills for keeping your upper body down the fall line and getting good control of your edges and really finding your center. (And probably good practice if you want to learn to hit rails as well...) It definitely comes in handy when you're out trying to traverse into a tight spot - you often don't really have room to turn among rocks and trees and roots sticking out of the snow - being able to really control your sideslipping so you're only going forward and backward when you WANT to and can go straight down the fall line can be really important. Very often the hardest part of expert terrain isn't skiing the run - it's getting to the run you want to ski.

Mind you - if you're in good powder - sideslipping through fresh snow is a guaranteed way to make other skiers mad, since you're ruining it for people who wanted to actually ski it. But once it's been skied out - that's often the only way to access some terrain. And if it comes down to being stuck somewhere with no other way out - I'm sure they'd rather see you sideslip some powder than need to be rescued!

 

[SkiMo]

Hah!!!! Sideslipping...I never knew that what I did naturally to get down the icy crud I wind up in sometimes had a name! I actually called it my "snowboarder's technique. I watched how they could slowly get down some pretty steep terrain by leaning back towards the mountain and I sort of did it on my skis. It's worked every time.
As far as mental versus physical, I think it is a combination of both. Your body will tire if it is not in shape...period.
Everyone here has me convinced though, that lessons are very important. I'm going to take one next weekend I think.

 

[Pequenita]

Hah!!!! Sideslipping...I never knew that what I did naturally to get down the icy crud I wind up in sometimes had a name! I actually called it my "snowboarder's technique. I watched how they could slowly get down some pretty steep terrain by leaning back towards the mountain and I sort of did it on my skis. It's worked every time.

That's half of it. Edging into the mountain (ie, snowboarder leaning back) is the brake, and then tipping your ski edges downhill to match the pitch of the slope is the slipping part.