Magic carpets

[num]

What do you guys think of magic carpets for little kid beginners? It seems to me like they're a great way to get the tiny ones up a little incline (when they're ready) without the rope tow killing their arms. However, I was talking to an instructor about lifts and tows and he expressed harsh feelings toward the magic carpets, saying that they hindered kids and were skiing's version of putting a kid in front of a tv instead of playing with them. I was a bit surprised at the harshness of his feelings toward them, and was wondering if that's common.

Personally, I was thinking to (whenever I end up taking my little niece out to ski) start her out somewhere that has a magic carpet to make it a little gentler of a start, to make it a comfortable first time out and let her fall in love with the gliding feeling before worrying about holding on to the rope. She's very athletic with strong legs, but is also quite a shortie- she's 4 and wears a 2t.

So what do you guys think? Love em? Hate em? Anyone share the aforementioned instructor's view, or dislike them for another reason?

 

[ski now work later]

I actually prefer a small, low double chair so kids learn how to use a chair from the start. Our local hill has that and I was so grateful for it. On the other hand, my kids started skiing and riding at ages 8 and 11 and maybe for the 5 and under set a magic carpet makes more sense. They did use one at Killington a couple of seasons ago and I thought it was a little silly.... And I think my stepkids used one at Okemo too 2 Christmases ago.

 

[Jilly]

Having taught on both a magic carpet and a handle tow, plus memories of rope tows, I'll take the magic carpet. I'm not sure where the instructor you talked to is coming from. Stance and balance are the two most important issues to deal with as a begineer. Having your arms pulled out of their sockets by rope tows or handle tows doesn't add to an enjoyable session. When I use the carpet I don't have kids piling up as the first one did the splits face first. The carpet teaches balance while moving. This can be applied going downhill. There doesn't seem to be any fear factor with the carpets either. Your not up high, they move slow and and you can pick your spot. I can be right behind an intrepid skier and hold them on the way up if needed. Our local hill is replacing the handle tow this summer with a carpet. I'm looking forward to it.
FYI - the magic carpets at Tremblant are not longer free. You need to buy a carpet lift ticket.

 

[Severine]

No prior experience with rope tows (or T-bars, poma lifts, J-bars, etc) but I've run the magic carpet at our local ski area a couple times now. I think it's a great way to get never-evers just enough up the hill to get a feel for skiing/boarding. That said, I think that beyond 2 days (and that's a MAX, the first day being the lesson and perhaps a warm-up on the 2nd day) I don't think anyone should still be using it. That is, of course, unless you're 4 years old and too short for the double (like one of my favorite regulars on the magic carpet :D).

It's better than side-stepping your way up or taking the skis off and walking, but after a point, you really just need to move on up the hill.

(BTW, there are a lot more adults than you would think using the magic carpet, too. I was surprised by that.)

At our ski area, everyone must have a lift ticket to use the magic carpet. But they do have a discounted rate for the learning area only.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I couldn't be happier to see the demise of rope tows. I even remember cowhide rope tow mitts, which were heavy over gloves (no fingers) that instructors would wear to keep their $$$ gloves from major "rope burns." Good riddance. T-bars, however, still have great merit: at Sugarloaf, sometimes this is the only lift to the summit in windy conditions when chairs are on wind-hold.

 

[perma-grin]

That same instructor is more than likely still lamenting the demise of the 207 straight ski!! I personally love the Magic carpet! It is so much easier for the skier to get up the hill. I don't miss the 10 skier pile up that results when one skier on the rope tow falls and fails to let go of the rope!! (I belief the tecnical term is" body surfing the hill".) While it may be quite comical to watch it is a pain in the butt when it's obstucting your lesson from getting up the hill. I have also found it to be more helpful (M.C.) in aiding my newer students that maybe less than physically fit, to get up the hill. It really sucks when your student is worn-out or frustrated before they've even made it up the hill once! I think the M.C. is a win-win for student and instructor reguardless of their age!

 

[Ski Luvr]

My son and daughter used a magic carpet for the first time yesterday. They loved it! Both of them seemed to adjust very quickly to getting on and off. Much quicker than I adjusted to the rope tow!

 

[ski chick]

I personally want to kiss the inventor of the magic carpet. Getting on the chair or rope tow is a whole other lesson on the mountain. The magic carpet can give kids the confidence to learn how to get to the bottom of the bunny hill and practice their pizza and french fries without the added skill of the lift. I do agree that after a few days they are ready for the chair but that also means they are ready to move away from the bunny and maybe try a green. Hooray! And to all the instructors who posted, I, on behalf of parents everywhere, thank you for your hard work. When I grow up I want to be a ski instructor to little kids. How rewarding! You guys are the best!

 

[Robyn]

I'm a little confused by this instructor, what exactly about them hinders kids? I'm with the others that think that more than anything they probably enable a child to ski more on those additional days as they aren't exhausted and frustrated by the tow rope. In addition, I'd imagine they are safer as well.

 

[valli]

I think they are great. We started our daughters skiing at 3 and 2, and the magic carpet is much better than the rope tow when they are first starting out. It's also easier for an instructor or parent to take multiple kids than it is on the lift.

 

[LucieCZ]

Our kids love magic carpets! It's not just about learning at that age, it's also about having fun. That instructor probably forgot that part. Lol

 

[floatingyardsale]

Said instructor has never seen my friend's three year old do laps of the magic carpet like we'd lap a groomer. What a grump!

 

[AJM]

I only wish we had a magic carpet at our local hill when my son was little, I spent hours and hours and hours on our rope tow ... maybe thats why I have such long arms

 

[liquidfeet]

he expressed harsh feelings toward the magic carpets, saying that they hindered kids and were skiing's version of putting a kid in front of a tv instead of playing with them. I was a bit surprised at the harshness of his feelings toward them, and was wondering if that's common.

No this is not common. I've never heard anyone say this before.

He contrasts the kids riding up the carpet with parents playing with them instead. That makes me wonder if he ever noticed that once at the top, the kids ski down. The carpet ride is only half the experience. Once at the top, kids are usually accompanied by parents or an instructor showing them how to make turns. I don't understand how he could be thinking that the carpet replaces parents "playing" with the kids down below.

**Note: kids skiing straight down from the top of the carpet lift, making no turns on the way down, and coasting to a stop at the bottom where the snow flattens out is a big no-no. Kids should always be making turns. That's the job of the parents and instructors - to refuse to let the kids straight-line their skiing. If kids get used to the easy speed of a straight run, they will resist learning to turn and become dangerous to themselves and others. Straight runs hinder kids.

He may have seen unaccompanied kids straight running down, and that may have been what prompted him to say what he said.

 

[Ms Mia]

I note the original post was from 2007, so I'm just hoping rope tows have been phased out most places. I remember using one as a kid and HATING it. I recently introduced my very nervous 6 year old to skiing and the first thing we did was to just go up the magic carpet without skis. She relaxed a bit after that, and indeed, was happy to go up on her skis. Also, the rope tows encourage backseating - your balance is the opposite of what you need to be learning. Using the carpet teaches kids to lean forward and maintain balance while moving. It's gentle, inviting, and doesn't involve ripping your arms out of your socket!

 

[marzNC]

I note the original post was from 2007, so I'm just hoping rope tows have been phased out most places. I remember using one as a kid and HATING it. I recently introduced my very nervous 6 year old to skiing and the first thing we did was to just go up the magic carpet without skis. She relaxed a bit after that, and indeed, was happy to go up on her skis. Also, the rope tows encourage backseating - your balance is the opposite of what you need to be learning. Using the carpet teaches kids to lean forward and maintain balance while moving. It's gentle, inviting, and doesn't involve ripping your arms out of your socket!

The approach to beginner terrain, especially for kids, has certainly changed since 2007.

I learned to ski with a rope tow. Not my favorite but as a middle schooler and new skier, it wasn't a big deal. That rope tow on a private school hill is still in operation. My daughter was already an advanced skier by the time she used it when she was in middle school. She'd learned to deal with a rope tow at Alta since that was the access to Alta Lodge.

In any case, a rope tow as the only way for a never-ever child or adult beginner to start skiing is relatively rare in the 2020s. Magic carpets in teaching terrain has become the standard. Out west, more and more of the carpets are in a clear tunnel so that when it's snowing the carpet and the people on it are protected from wind and snow.

When Taos Ski Valley redid the Pioneer lift that's used by adult beginners, they put in a short access magic carpet that's in a tunnel. The Children's teaching program also has a magic carpet in a tunnel.

Big Sky recently put in two long magic carpets in the same tunnel. The teaching terrain by those magic carpets is right at the main base.

Grand Targhee, March 2024


Big Sky, March 2024


There are also a few small hills I know of in the east coast that have retained an old, very slow, short chairlift so that beginners can learn how to load a lift. I remember the one at Montage in particular. One reason it's still there is that the current owner is a local businessman who didn't ski before he bought Montage. He appreciated the little lift as he was learning to ski.

When I stopped by Mt. Brighton, a bump near Detroit, there was a fast rope tow running next to a terrain park. The young people (probably mostly 15-25 yo males) were lapping the terrain park and had no issues getting on the rope tow from wherever they wanted. Fair to say that installing and maintaining a rope two is a lot less expensive than a magic carpet, especially in regions that get a lot a snowstorms.

 

[Amplify]

I note the original post was from 2007, so I'm just hoping rope tows have been phased out most places. I remember using one as a kid and HATING it. I recently introduced my very nervous 6 year old to skiing and the first thing we did was to just go up the magic carpet without skis. She relaxed a bit after that, and indeed, was happy to go up on her skis. Also, the rope tows encourage backseating - your balance is the opposite of what you need to be learning. Using the carpet teaches kids to lean forward and maintain balance while moving. It's gentle, inviting, and doesn't involve ripping your arms out of your socket!

Agree! I had never seen a magic carpet until my older kid started skiing about five years ago, but I was like "omg amazing." I grew up learning on a rope tow and I didn't really mind it, but it was like, a whole other THING to learn before I could even start to learn to ski. It was yet another barrier to entry, for young kids who already tend to have a fairly short-term-gratification mindset.

My kids encountered their first rope tow this season. Both comfortably ski the easier to mid-range blacks at Gore, Smuggler's Notch, etc, by which I mean they are not beginners, and it took them a couple runs to get the hang of using the rope tow. It's just a separate (though related) skill! And beginners are learning enough new skills already; I am happy there is a way to skip having to learn the rope tow skillset as a pre-requisite to actually learning to ski down an incline. The point about training to keep weight back is a really good one, and not something I'd even considered before.

 

[marzNC]

The point about training to keep weight back is a really good one, and not something I'd even considered before.

I was taught to keep my weight forward while using a rope tow. The better hand position is to have one in front and one behind, not just hanging on with two hands while leaning back. Keeping the skis in the track meant not being in a wedge. Note that I was on long straight skis well over my head.

To avoid getting jerked as your front hand slowly closes on the moving tow rope, the elbow should be bent.

Knowing how to use a rope tow is useful at Alta. The "transfer tow" between the two bases is much easier since there is only one short section that goes uphill (going towards Albion from Wildcat). Access to Alta Lodge is by using a "handle tow." I find that easier but have an older schoolmate who preferred the rope tow. Kids and adults usually get the idea fairly quickly if someone explains and demonstrates how to use the handle tow (do not try to sit on the platter).

 

[Briski]

+1 for magic carpets. I think the best thing about them is the low angle terrain they serve. Perhaps the biggest challenge in teaching people to ski is keeping them in low angle terrain long enough. If you can keep it low angle the kids can learn to rely on turns to control speed instead of power wedging. Terrain served by most (but not all) beginner chairs is too steep and long for a 3-4 year old, That said Winter Parks Galloping Goose is an ideal little kid learning chair. You used to be able to by a $5 goose only ticket.

 

[SkiBam]

I must confess to being quite apprehensive my first time on a magic carpet. This was about 20 years ago when I started as an instructor and we had to learn how to give kids their first lesson. Didn't take long for me to be comfortable on the carpet, though I recall a couple of incidents. One was when my skis iced up during the ride up, then wouldn't slide when I got off the lift (don't know how common this is). Another time a kid fell and I don't think the operator was paying attention as it took quite long for the lift to stop. But overall I think they're great and I sure would have loved a carpet instead of rope tows as a kid.