lots of tele/at gear questions

[skieast21]

Hi ladies,

I am thinking of doing some skinning/hiking for turns this year and am conflicted with what to do. Not sure if I want to really try tele skiing or just put some fristchi (sp?) bindings on another pair of skis and still use my alpine boots. Sooo...a few questions --

What are people's experiences with the fristchi type bindings? What do you tend to use them for?

Also -- is there really a difference between tele ski structure and alpine ski structure? Are they shorter? Longer? Softer? Different camber? Does it really matter?? :o)

If I am looking to maybe get another pair of skis to do more backcountry-ish skiing should I go shorter in length to get around or longer? Softer?

Or, if I am thinking of getting tele stuff -- even just for skiing off the lift -- what should I be looking for?

Skis last year were Head Wild Thangs in 150 which I really liked...this year I am going to be on Head Great Ones in 153 since I had to warranty my Wild Thangs and I haven't skied the Great Ones yet, but I am hoping I'll love those, too. Skiing in VT primarily - Mad River, Mansfield/Stowe, etc.

So...I guess I am considering either getting a tele set up that I would use to ski off the lifts and for hiking
OR
getting some fristchi bindings and throwing them on another pair of skis...what would you recommend as far as bindings or skis....???

Thank you in advance and if I have missed some threads that pretty much answer these questions, please direct me...I don't want to clog up the boards and overpost.

 

[BackCountryGirl]

Skieast21: I don't tele, but I do alot of AT in the east. I have fritschi free rides; I love them. If I were to buy new gear this season, which I might, I'd get the upgraded version called the freeride plus. I have BD skins (STS lights, which are the ones that look like tire tread). One piece of advice; get an experienced friend or a shop to cut the skins to your skis. You want them to fit just right. I also use ski crampons and boot crampons. I bought tele skis (Ross. Hip Chicks), that are 116-78-105. They have a 14 radius and they're 158s. I am 130 and 5'3". Until I got a pair of Fisher Wateas, they were my widest skis. They're about the same length as my all of my other skis (except for the twin tips), but they are softer. If you're trekking, weight is a factor. They are a wood core ski, which appeals to me. I like them alot; but I don't know how they compare to others. I like backcountry tree skiing, so softness made sense. I use Garmont Mega Ride boots, which I also like alot. Be prepared for AT boots to be pretty low volume. Make sure you invest in a decent pack and do learn how to use an avy beacon.

 

[skieast21]

Thank you so much --- this definitely helps even to just give me some places to start my research from while looking for new gear. I do have some people I can tap into around here, but it's good to get lots of opinions and especially those from women about what types of skis/equipment they find works for them, etc. since my resources here are all men.

What's the difference between the freerides and freeride plus??

Also - with the fritschi bindings, I can just use my alpine boots, right...vs. AT specific boots?

Thanks again.

 

[PowDiva85]

Lets see...
ok first off yes there are differences between tele and AT and alpine gear. Most significantly is weight, companies work really hard to keep the weight of tele/AT skis down since climbing up hill on a heavy pair of skis is a real drag..(heehee). K2 makes all their tele skis with a wood core that is super strong but very light weight, some models incorporate triaxle braiding and/or metal sheets to give you a damp yet light ride and their shes piste has been a favorite for many years and won several awards. G3 has an awesome telemark line up coming out that I can not wait to check out, the Nectar would be right up your alley for a newbie telemarker or ATer. I dont tele or AT at the moment but im planning to take all of these skis out with fritschis and AT so I can try em out. As far as AT goes it is a growing part of the industry and all sorts of new technology is coming out. The fritschis are a great choice only draw backs are that if you are inbounds on hard pack you probably wont like how they ski because you are set so hi off the ski compared to a regular alpine binding so you sacrifice alot of energy transfer. If you are thinking about being a "sidecountry" skier splitting your time on fat skis between resort and backcountry the marker Duke might be something to look at. Its really quite heavy for an AT binding but is better for inbounds skiing than the fritschis in my opinion. K2s MissBaker and Shucksann are the only womens specific AT specific skis on the market and both are well liked in our shop. These skis are made to work as tools as well as skis (ie. you can use for an anchor to check out steep terrain ect) and are light with a much less agressive side cut. On the boot side of things if there are three ways to go an AT/alpine boot cross, AT specific or tele specific. The AT/alpine cross have interchangeble soles so you can ski your heads or your AT skis without switching boots. If you decide to do a tele set up look for a four buckle which will support you similarly to an alpine boot and give you more control over a wider ski. Good luck on your search! Drop heels not bombs!

 

[tradygirl]

BIG question - are you already a strong telemark skier? If not, I would recommend AT gear for backcountry. Key thing is to use your strengths out there - it's a lot of work and I wouldn't want to waste it flailing around!

If you are a strong tele skier, consider tele since your gear can pull double-duty and you can have a new pair of powder boards to use either in the BC or resort. Look at touring bindings like the Black Diamond O2 where you can disengage the spring while skinning.

If you're going AT, here's the main question to consider when buying AT gear:

Am I going to do mostly long tours away from a resort (no lifts), or am I going to primarily hike from a resort (sidecountry from lifts)?

No sidecountry = weight/comfort over performance. Good news is that the newest stuff is getting light and high performance. Look at AT boots, especially the new stuff from Black Diamond and Dynafit. They have boots that can pull double duty with swappable soles, and perform very well while staying comfortable and light. You do not want to tour in alpine boots for long periods of time. Also, consider getting Dynafit bindings - they are WAY lighter than Freerides and are much more efficient for skinning. However, you need compatible boots and they perform a little bit differently than standard alpine bindings.

Sidecountry = performance over weight. This is where you would want a Freeride or a Duke. Both are compatible with an standard alpine boot, but are heavier and less efficient than the Dynafit. As PowDiva said, the Freerides will ski "weird" and do not transfer power as well as a standard alpine binding. The Dukes will ski better, but are far heavier.

My opinion on skis: don't skimp on fatness/length for weight NO MATTER WHAT. You want to have confidence in your skis, and you want to ski well after putting in all that work. Get a fat ski (>90 in the waist) that has plenty of length.

Bottom line - it's all about how you're going to use your stuff. If you just want to "check it out" before you decide which way to go, get a cheap used pair of Freerides and put them on a cheap pair of powder skis, even something you already own - it's a relatively small investment in case you end up hating it. Do some touring in your alpine boots to get a feel for everything. Once you know what you like (long tours vs sidecountry laps), start thinking about refining your needs and putting together a dedicated set-up.

 

[skieast21]

Thanks for the replies!!

First off -- no, I am not a big tele skier -- I have no tele experience. I alpine ski and used to race nordic so people keep pressuring me to try tele and say I'll be good at it (though I can't say I'm convinced, haha) but, yeah, I would definitely be learning tele inbounds this season before doing much hiking.

My hiking will primarily be sidecountry I imagine. I had forgotten about the Dukes so thanks for bringing those back into the picture. I have been wanting a fatter ski, around 90mm underfoot anyway, so I am thinking I will probably go with a freeride or duke and then get some new skis, wood core that are fatter.

How long should I go? I've gained about 10lbs since last year so I am around 120 (5ft 2 or 3in) and like I said I have the 153 great ones though those have some nice sheets of metal in them....but I'm not sure how long I should go in length now...like 160something? I understand wanting to be confident, but I don't know if I am going fatter AND longer how confident I will be maneuvering.

I see what you all are saying about the fritschis or dukes raising you up more --- if you mount them flat then is that just like giving your bindings a lift? Is your center as far as fore and aft changed on the ski or just your height? Wouldn't that make it easier to get a fat ski on edge and therefore more beneficial?

Also -- thanks for the names of some skis to check out. I will be trying to do this cheap as it will kind of be an on the side thing this year, but I am totally excited and appreciate the input.

 

[PowDiva85]

as far as length i would say you would be ok staying at a 153 or 155 ish length for this pair, they will make learning easier if you decide to switch to tele if you choose AT you could go a bit longer but stick with a length you feel comfortable with and you can always learn for this pair what you want if you really get into it and go longer
A note on AT bindings ... AT bindings do not release backwards like alpine bindings increase the risk for injury. It sounds like you are a strong alpine skier so if you fall you will probably go over the front vs the infamous backwards twisting fall but still something to consider, also AT bindings are almost twice as expensive as alpine so be prepared for that.
As far as the "lift" in the Duke and fritschi its like putting lifter plates under a alpine binding. It does not change the fore/aft angle just how close you are to the ski because of this and the way the binding is constructed you lose responsiveness.

 

[dloveski]

I use Head Sweet Fat Thangs (164) with fritsche bindings and my alpine boots for short hikes and also this set up is great for all mountain downhill skiing, most conditions. If I were to go on long b/c treks, I'd use the same ski set up but would invest in some Garmont boots.

 

[BackCountryGirl]

The Freeride Plus is wider, beefier, meant to go on wider skis. The Freerides will work with your regular boots; but, if you're going to do any trekking at all, I'd spring for the boots.

 

[skieast21]

I had thought about the Head Sweet Fat Thangs --- this year's graphics for the Sweet Ones really don't appeal to me (hate to be graphics oriented, but you know) so I have thought about trying to find last years....

What about something like a Line Celebrity or a Head Mojo 94 (although I don't think they come very small)?

Some of the G3 skis look great but I wonder about availability and sizing (though there are a couple women's models)....

Hmmm...tough decisions. Other ideas in the 90mm waist width? -- I wish there were "mens"/unisex skis that came in smaller lengths!

 

[Shannon D]

I know a couple of guys who have their AT setups on Black Diamond skis. They have been very happy, but I don't know anyone with experience on the women's models.

Volkl has women's versions of the bridge and the wall. The cosmo is 92mm and the pearl is 84.

I don't have any experience on these skis, but they may be worth trying out.

 

[skieast21]

That's right. I had seen the volkl cosmo somewhere -- is that a new model for this year??

Thank you for the suggestions.

I looked at the BD skis on the website -- the women's Joule and Velvet look pretty nice -- Joule is 95mm and Velvet is 88mm

 

[tradygirl]

I know a couple of guys who have their AT setups on Black Diamond skis. They have been very happy, but I don't know anyone with experience on the women's models.

I ski on the BD Verdicts (an older model) and they are fantastic! Stiff enough, but very forgiving. They have a huge sweet spot. Just go longer than you think - I'm on the 170s and I wish I would have gone with the 180s. I don't know anyone personally who has skied any of their women's skis, but I've read good reviews about the Joule.

BD is a local SLC company, so almost everyone I know skis on their stuff, and they've got a good rep around here. Their skins are the best I've tried and I like the Ascension the best (the Glidelites are a little to flimsy for my taste). The clip fix system is very user-friendly and seems relatively burly. It's also really easy to replace the tip loop if it wears out.

 

[Shannon D]

BD is a local SLC company, so almost everyone I know skis on their stuff, and they've got a good rep around here. Their skins are the best I've tried and I like the Ascension the best (the Glidelites are a little to flimsy for my taste). The clip fix system is very user-friendly and seems relatively burly. It's also really easy to replace the tip loop if it wears out.

Hubby, Brother in law and Father in law all use the BD Ascensions too. They LOVE them.

Also, DH was touring in alpine boots when he first got his setup. He ended up dislodging some of his custom boot work around his heels and he wasn't doing particularly long tours. Last year, he got into some Garmont AT boots and has been supremely happy with his tours. He's a really aggressive skier and is very happy their performance on lift served as well.

 

[schudz]

Splurge on the boots. Alpine boots will tend to kick you forward - neither comfortable nor efficient for skinning!

 

[xt73]

Can you use AT boots in downhill bindings?

I read somewhere that you could damage the boots, but I thought a lot of them come with interchangeable soles (toes/heels ?) for using them as downhill boots.
I am looking at some BD Shivas...I really like that they have a lace up system for the lining like snowboard boots. Makes it nice and snug!

So if I use the boots with normal Marker downhill bindings, will I ruin the boots? Also, if using the boots on the locked down/stiff mode, will I lose any downhill skiing control vs. a normal downhill boot? I have never used an AT boot before, so this is new for me....

 

[Shannon D]

I read somewhere that you could damage the boots, but I thought a lot of them come with interchangeable soles (toes/heels ?) for using them as downhill boots.
I am looking at some BD Shivas...I really like that they have a lace up system for the lining like snowboard boots. Makes it nice and snug!

So if I use the boots with normal Marker downhill bindings, will I ruin the boots? Also, if using the boots on the locked down/stiff mode, will I lose any downhill skiing control vs. a normal downhill boot? I have never used an AT boot before, so this is new for me....

Yes, many of the AT boots on the market come with interchangable soles so that you can use your boots with your touring setup as well as your alpine setup. The problem with most alpine bindings in AT boots is that the toe peice is not high enough to accomdate the thicker sole on a traditional AT boot. This compromises your safety because your boot may not release properly. The Shiva in particular has a nice interchangeable system. It has only one screw (vs 6 in other models) and the sole slides off in a single piece. You can buy the alpine compatable sole, called a DIN block, for about $40.

I have heard some people say that they lost downhill performance with an AT boot, but no one I know who currently has AT boots would say that. Most people I know who are in them say they have not noticed a difference at all.

 

[ZealouslyB]

Here are my few tidbits.....

1. I just started tele skiing about a month ago, It does need to be noted that tele skiing and AT skiing are two totally different things. Yes, you skin up on both pretty much the same, but the skiing part is not, I'm a very strong alpine skier and am doing well with tele, but definitely am by no means a pro! You can flat carve on tele skis, but it's thigh-burning and will only get you so far! I love tele skiing, but it'll be sometime before I'm ready to ski backcountry.

2. The Marker Duke binding is sort of a pain to convert from skinning to skiing. Unlike some bindings that allow you to switch while standing in your ski, with the Duke you have to take your foot out to switch it, which is not always fun in the woods, on a steep slope, etc.

3. I ski the Line Celebs in a 168 (I'm 5'6, aggressive & no lightweight) which havea 90 waist; for a tele ski I chose the K2 Dawn Patrol which has an 88 waist. They are a tele ski, but it was an easy swap for me, they perform much the same except the K2s are even better in soft stuff. They're light too. Might be worth looking into for AT bindings. I know many people who have tele set ups on traditionally alpine skis, so I guess it's more about your preference.

 

[jessie.says.that]

Are you skiing your line Celebs as the boards in an AT setup or just frontside? If you're skiing them w/ AT, what is your experience?

I've heard the Celebs are a little flexy/ soft/ bendy, and
I've heard good things about the BD Joule as well. Anyone know how these two models compare? Care to venture a guess?

Specs taken from both manufacturers (used the 08/09 models):

Line Celebs-
1425g per ski (6.2#s for set) @ 158, 125-90-113
1534g per ski (6.8#s for set) @165, 125-90-113

BD Joule-
6.83# @ 165 w/125-95-112

 

[PowDiva85]

Joules will be stiffer