"lively skis" vs "damp" skis

[liquidfeet]

So what's your preference? Why, and when, do you use each? I'm in the market for a new ski, and want to understand why someone would want a "lively" ski, one with lots of rebound energy, instead of a "damp" ski, one which absorbs rough terrain like it has shock absorbers on it.

 

[cinnabon]

I like a ski that has both characteristics. If it's too damp, like the Volants I used to own (with their steel cap they were as damp as you can get!) They were very stable, but you don't get much spring to propel you into the next turn - they were not "quick" at all. One of my favorite all time skis was the Salomon X-Scream series that used to be so popular. They had dampening rods built into them that worked well, but had a nice amount rebound, which made them a really fun ski! I still enjoy using them sometimes, even with all the improvements in ski technology in the last 10 years.

 

[RachelV]

I bought the women's Rossi Scratch BC's early last season on a whim because they were on sale ($199!!) and I wanted a powder ski. They turned out to be really lively and *really* fun. I ski them as my primary ski on the east coast now, even though they're something like 90mm underfoot, just because I have so much fun every time I'm on them.

They still carve surprisingly well -- they're stiff side-to-side, I guess ("torsionally rigid", according to Phil, who explained all this to me) -- and really I have no better way to describe them except really, really fun. They feel so energetic and they're so light that I feel less tired at the end of the day than when I ski my Head Monster m77's.

Maybe I'll get sick of them and go back to wanting something with more crud-busting abilities, but for now I am loving these.

 

[volklgirl]

I'm all about lively skis. I looove the feedback and snow feel they have, the energy and pop that just makes you grin from ear-to-ear.

The damp skis I've tried:

• Rossignol - hated every one except the Z9
• K2 - hated every one except the Outlaw
• Head - actually really liked the Monster, but still not enough snap for me
• Blizzard - very much like a tuned-down Volkl, so not completely awful for me
• Volant - loved the stability but too much like a Cadillac ride for me

 

[ski now work later]

Yup, I'm a Volklgirl too, love the liveliness. And am looking forward to my improving my ability being able to really drive the skis this season and next 'cause I can tell that they are skis that will go as far as you can take them (Auras and new Fuegos).

 

[liquidfeet]

I'm all about lively skis. I looove the feedback and snow feel they have, the energy and pop that just makes you grin from ear-to-ear.

The damp skis I've tried:

• Rossignol - hated every one except the Z9
• K2 - hated every one except the Outlaw
• Head - actually really liked the Monster, but still not enough snap for me
• Blizzard - very much like a tuned-down Volkl, so not completely awful for me
• Volant - loved the stability but too much like a Cadillac ride for me

So is the rebound effect due to a wood core??? Somewhere I read this.

 

[Greeley]

I'm all about lively skis. I looove the feedback and snow feel they have, the energy and pop that just makes you grin from ear-to-ear.

The damp skis I've tried:

• Rossignol - hated every one except the Z9
• K2 - hated every one except the Outlaw
• Head - actually really liked the Monster, but still not enough snap for me
• Blizzard - very much like a tuned-down Volkl, so not completely awful for me
• Volant - loved the stability but too much like a Cadillac ride for me

I also agree with Volklgirl. I've hated every K2 & Rossi I have ever tried. I just don't like a ski that doesn't have much snap. Maybe I'll get a pair of dampened skis when I'm about 90 or so and can't handle the lively skis anymore.

 

[cinnabon]

So is the rebound effect due to a wood core??? Somewhere I read this.

Not necesarily. A wood core can be dampening and heavy (like K2s) It used to be at least that foam core skis were lively because they were light, but I'm not sure what actually causes the snappiness. I believe in the case of the X-Screams the stiff tail had something to do with it. This was the first ski I ever had that really had noticable rebound. For your original question, the reason you want that rebound is it propels you from one turn to the next, so skiing is more effortless (and fun!).

 

[liquidfeet]

This last year I skied on damp skis. They were heavy titanium-filled Atomics. I loved them. They never misbehaved no matter what I did on them. What a difference they were compared to my Volkl pink stars. Those are noodles.
BUT, these Atomics are 16m skis, and I need short radius skis because instead of going mach schnell down the mountain keeping up with or passing the group, I've discovered I love meandering around rocks and bumps under the lifts. So I need a new kind of ski, one for short turns on ice. Thus my question.

I am an aggressive skier.
What do people suggest? Lively, damp, Z9, Metron, Fuego, Supershape, RX something, what? (They must be narrow at the waist- I'm in New England.)

 

[roheela]

I bought the women's Rossi Scratch BC's early last season on a whim because they were on sale ($199!!) and I wanted a powder ski. They turned out to be really lively and *really* fun. I ski them as my primary ski on the east coast now, even though they're something like 90mm underfoot, just because I have so much fun every time I'm on them.

They still carve surprisingly well -- they're stiff side-to-side, I guess ("torsionally rigid", according to Phil, who explained all this to me) -- and really I have no better way to describe them except really, really fun. They feel so energetic and they're so light that I feel less tired at the end of the day than when I ski my Head Monster m77's.

Maybe I'll get sick of them and go back to wanting something with more crud-busting abilities, but for now I am loving these.

Oh my goodness. Where did you find the Rossi's for $199?! That is an AMAZING price. I would love to add them to my quiver. Would you like to share the love?

 

[SnowHot]

So is the rebound effect due to a wood core??? Somewhere I read this.

There are many things that go into the pop of a ski. One is the core, but mostly its structure, and other technology. One of the things that volkl had was the rail system that allowed the binding to "adjust" for lack of a better term, to the flex of the ski and give you that extra POP!

 

[perma-grin]

Hmm, I have never considered entire "brands " to be damp or lively rather particular models within the brand. For instance a true slalom ski ( from any brand) is going to be more lively than a true GS ski (also from any brand). The nature and design of a GS ski is to be damper and more stable at higher speeds making longer radius turns. A slalom ski on the other hand needs to very quick from edge to edge and have a lot of snap and pop, to create energy out of the old turn and into the new. That said I have always preferred a ski with an unbalanced flex pattern, just a lot more energy created there, unless your feet are in front of your hips then it's just a way nasty launch!

 

[liquidfeet]

Hmm, I have never considered entire "brands " to be damp or lively rather particular models within the brand. For instance a true slalom ski ( from any brand) is going to be more lively than a true GS ski (also from any brand). The nature and design of a GS ski is to be damper and more stable at higher speeds making longer radius turns. A slalom ski on the other hand needs to very quick from edge to edge and have a lot of snap and pop, to create energy out of the old turn and into the new. That said I have always preferred a ski with an unbalanced flex pattern, just a lot more energy created there, unless your feet are in front of your hips then it's just a way nasty launch!

Thanks, perma-grin, for your info. Does this mean that if I buy a ski with a radius of 10-13m it will be "lively," with lots of rebound built into it, no matter what, and that the difference I should be looking for between one ski and another will be how much stiffer the tail is from the shovel?

If yes, you say you like skis with a noticeable difference there. Why? What does that offer, performance-wise?

 

[volklgirl]

Dampness is mostly a function of the type and distribution of metal and wood in the ski. Some woods tend to be more damp and other more lively. Skis with metal tend to be more damp, but that depends on the type of metal, its placement, and its thickness.

Quickness from edge to edge is not the same as dampness. For example, SH and I traded our race stock SLs last year.....they had very similar dimensions (both being FIS approved) and both are standard laminate construction with metal layers and wood cores. Yet the Blizzard was decidedly more damp then the Volkl while both were incredibly quick edge to edge.The Blizzard went smoothly into and out of the turn while the Volkl tended to slinghot into the next turn. The Blizzard also tended to mute the feeling of the snow under my feet.

The same was true when I demoed GS skis. Livelliness ranged from totally dead (Rossi 9X OS) to so lively I couldn't stay on top of them (Dynastar Speed 68). It's merely a matter of personal preference.

Don't over think this one! Just go out and demo a bunch of skis and buy the one that puts the biggest grin on your face.

 

[liquidfeet]

Volklgirl,
Thanks. That's a lot of good info. But I overthink everything- can't stop myself. But, yes, I will demo.

Another question: Is there any way of getting a deal on new skis at the start of a season, if one waits for snow to do a bunch of demos? Seems like the only deals are on eBay or are last year's skis which won't last till demo time at the rate they are going now.

 

[altagirl]

To some extent, I like both. It depends on how I'm feeling. A really lively ski requires a lot of energy on your part to keep it in line. That can be super fun when you're on your game. If you're off, if you're tired, if you're recovering from an injury - a damp ski is more forgiving and easier to deal with.

 

[liquidfeet]

To some extent, I like both. It depends on how I'm feeling. A really lively ski requires a lot of energy on your part to keep it in line. That can be super fun when you're on your game. If you're off, if you're tired, if you're recovering from an injury - a damp ski is more forgiving and easier to deal with.

I like my old Atomics. They are damp, which is great at speed. When I drive them to do short quick turns, I do a lot of work and they do their thing but there is absolutely no snap there. It's just me driving them and them doing what I make them do. They bend and turn, but not happily. I want lively skis that "get it," and contribute to the task.

All sorts of people told me to try the K2 Burnin Loves, so I did last year at the end of the season. Nothing. They were dead. But that's all I've tried.

So what skis do people use for short turns, skis with narrow waists for our ice here, that are lively and that you would recommend I demo??????

 

[volklgirl]

The Fuego would top my list for what you're wanting. Also the Firefox from Nordica (same quickness without quite as much snap, so better for just noodling around).

Another thought would be any of the SL race skis, but they'll have enough metal in them that I'd be very careful taking them in the bumps on a regular basis or you'll end up with bent or reverse camber skis.

Unless you're dying for "new" skis, look for a pair of 6* in a 161 cm. I LOVE mine for all around cruising and noodling. They're strangely fun in the bumps too and they're stiff enough to be tons of fun at speed.

 

[liquidfeet]

The Fuego would top my list for what you're wanting. Also the Firefox from Nordica (same quickness without quite as much snap, so better for just noodling around).

Another thought would be any of the SL race skis, but they'll have enough metal in them that I'd be very careful taking them in the bumps on a regular basis or you'll end up with bent or reverse camber skis.

Unless you're dying for "new" skis, look for a pair of 6* in a 161 cm. I LOVE mine for all around cruising and noodling. They're strangely fun in the bumps too and they're stiff enough to be tons of fun at speed.

There's a guy here wanting to sell me new Fuegos for $600, off the shelf. By the time there's snow to try them, they'll be gone. They may be gone now. He had most all of last year's still in the shop two weeks ago.
Should I bite?????
Or go find used 6*s???
In both cases, this would be a purchase without a demo.

 

[volklgirl]

The 6* will be very much like your old Gamma 4* except waaaaaay stiffer, so better at speed and snappier. (I'm now on hubby's old 168s after he made the jump to 175s. I promptly sold my 161s).

The Fuego is a high energy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy ski and much turnier than the * series. I didn't get a chance to try them in the bumps or on really hard snow, so I can't give you any impressions there. They had me out of breath in short order and laughing and giggling the entire time I was on them.