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Kid refuses to use technique

back2ski

Certified Ski Diva
We live in SE WI and only get to ski little bumps compared to most of you, so keep that in mind (Alpine Valley for those who are near). We ski with the grade school ski club which is only 6x/year if weather cooperates. DD's 8 and 11 ski, ds 14 boards.

I'm jealous of all the talk I read on your kids in ski school for 2 1/2 hours a day and doing perfect parallels by the time they're 7. I'm sure part of the problem here is skiing isn't such a big part of the families lives like it is out east or west. Lessons are only encouraged the first time out, and even though on ski club days lessons are only $14 for anyone in the family, nobody takes advantage of that. The kids complain majorly when I try to get them to do a lesson the first time out for the season, and it's hard to force the issue when none of their friends are taking it.

DD 8 started when she was 6, took 2 one hour lessons and was almost doing complete parellel turns on greens by the end of the second and given the ok to ride the lift w/out an adult (eek!) to anything but blacks. All was well and good those first times when we were alone. Next time out she met up with all her school friends and their goal is to get down the hill as fast as possible, holding hands in pairs that first year. Her friends think I'm nuts to say they're supposed to go back and forth down the hill, to practice their turns. "But it's FUN going fast". I personally haven't taken my girls on a diamond run (remember these are just straight groomed runs, just steeper) because I myself am not ready after 17 yrs off skis. I know other parents do take their kids on black even their first season learning to ski.

I'm thinking of taking a lesson myself to really learn the correct technique on shaped skis. Do I force my kids to take the lesson with me? Or just let them continue having fun with friends and figure they'll evolve when they're ready?

Furthermore, DD8 is recently asking to snowboard, but since none of her friends do, nor do they have interest so probably won't be next year, I think it would be a mistake. She'll be left alone at the top of the hill getting her boots on the board while they're waiting at the bottome of the hill (if they wait, these are 8 yr olds remember).

DS was told in his second lesson/second day on the snowboard, that he was a natural and was better at following directions as a 12 yr old then any of the instructor's past 18 yr old students. Maybe it's a line to encourage parents to keep coming back, idk. But he also refuses any furthur lessons. Neither does he venture into the park area which could be a lot of fun if he gave it a chance. This may be the first year they've really had the park set up well. Unfortunately he's typically stuck boarding alone unless he brings a friend who is then a beginner stuck on the bunny hill.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
I would take the lesson yourself only. Leave the kids out of the equation for YOUR lesson. Most small hills offer a ski/board improvement program that runs over 4-8 weeks. I'm teaching at a 160' vertical hill. We run a 5 week program, 2 hours a day of lesson, lift ticket and rentals good all day. It's amazing the number of parents who pick up the kids or are moving them along right after the lessons are over - its hockey, dance lessons, skating whatever. How do the kids get any better if they can't practice? I've a friend and his wife that decided the kids could do only 2 sports/season and NO wasn't an option. And that worked well for them. The kids got to choose which sports and the parents supported them by getting them to the sport. And because there was a lack of conflict with 3 others things to be at, the kids excelled at the sports. I guess what I want to know is - is there a program at this hill that is affordable so that the kids are with other kids their age and ability? They will want to get to be better skiers and maybe into a race program at club level - then they have to make turns!!
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Okay, take some of what I say with a bit of a grain of salt as I am a ski racing coach but I have our youngest kids at 5 & 6 so I deal with a lot of these issues including parallel, when to allow on a lift alone, black diamonds and such.

I often have to have conversations with kids about parallel (we call it french fry turns vs. pizza pie) and the fact that it might be faster to do a flying wedge down the mountain but I promise them if they learn french fry turns now they will be faster than their friends eventually.

This weekend I took 4 of my kids, 2 at 6 years old and 2 at 5 years old down a powder black diamond (Golddigger for those of you familiar with Copper). Our biggest issues were first, the lift. Its a slow triple but needs to be slowed down for us to load and we need the lifty's help only because they're too short to get on by themselves. Second, for the littler 2 the powder kept knocking them over mid turn. But, it was such a confidence boost for all of them that it was a great accomplishment! This was not their first black diamond but it forced them to use an unfamiliar lift and deal with the powder.

Explore your mountain or ask around and find the easiest black diamond. Get them down it (I usually don't tell them it's a black until we're down :wink: ) and then once they get past that mental block it's much easier. You too it sounds like.

Lifts. Honestly, as soon as they can get on by themselves I have no qualms about them riding by themselves. In fact, I know of 6 year olds that I had last year as 5 year olds and multiple 7 year olds that are now lapping for training with just other teammates now.

As far as the holding hands while skiing down the mountain in pairs, I'd stop that now. I've never seen it but I think it is one of the most dangerous things I've ever heard of both for the children and the other people on the mountain.
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We live in SE WI and only get to ski little bumps compared to most of you, so keep that in mind (Alpine Valley for those who are near). We ski with the grade school ski club which is only 6x/year if weather cooperates. DD's 8 and 11 ski, ds 14 boards. I'm jealous of all the talk I read on your kids in ski school for 2 1/2 hours a day and doing perfect parallels by the time they're 7. I'm sure part of the problem here is skiing isn't such a big part of the families lives like it is out east or west. Lessons are only encouraged the first time out.
Back2ski, I called AV my "home area" for 12 years! I know the place well, and I surely remember the "grade school ski club dynamic" (is it still on Friday nights?). DH taught there for 12, DS for 4.

I think the difference here is that those of us who have our kids in ski school at a young age - well, they're in it because "we say so!" :smile: A lot of them are in season-long programs that run at least 6, some 8 or more, weeks. Same instructor, same classmates, etc. It becomes a social thing.

It's quite a different story when the kids are only going 6 times a year - especially at this age, they want to tween-party and fool around (saw my share of hand-holding, also dumps into the creek :eek: ! I fished a girl out once!). Tough situation for you, I realize.

But if you would be willing to make a major commitment to the sport, you might be able to interest them in the weekly racing leagues at Alpine Valley. They used to be held on Tuesday nights, I have no idea when or even if now. Learning ski racing! Wow! With the preface that they HAVE to LEARN how to SKI, i.e., TURN. These groups also became VERY social and fun for this age group.

My son participated in 4th through 7th grade.

My recollection is also that the area heavily recruited and trained younger snowboarders at age 15 to become instructors as soon as they hit 16. For a 12 y/o rider to have a 16 y/o instructor? Well, now that's an altogether different kind of lesson! :smile: This is someone VERY close to his age - someone to really emulate.

Mine had no choice but to go skiing. It's what we did, like taking out the trash. Get dressed, we're going. There was sometimes considerable whining. It didn't matter. We went. Did we have bad days? You bet. They go through "that" age, and yours are right in it. (sorry :redface: !)

Hang in there - this too shall pass. In the meantime, work on your own skills - soon enough, you'll be cruising down Thunder! :ski2: And all 3 of your kids will be waiting for you! :laugh:
 

geargrrl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm on a lot of the same page as MSL. Especially the "no choice" part. I'll add in that "what my friends are doing" had zero effect on what the parents opinion was. When my kids refused to make turns, going straight down the hill, the choice was "make turns or your skis get locked in the car", guess what happened to the skis.

I know, you can't make them LOVE skiing, but don't have to let them manipulate you, either.

Mine had no choice but to go skiing. It's what we did, like taking out the trash. Get dressed, we're going. There was sometimes considerable whining. It didn't matter. We went. Did we have bad days? You bet. They go through "that" age, and yours are right in it. (sorry !)
LOL, sounds like our house. People are amazed that our teens show up early to get first tracks. "how do you do that, my kid wants to sleep until noon??!!". Indoctrination I guess.

good luck, apologies if I sound harsh. That's just how we are at our house.
 

MaineSkiLady

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
When my kids refused to make turns, going straight down the hill, the choice was "make turns or your skis get locked in the car", guess what happened to the skis.

Now THIS is one tough mom! :smile:
Bravo!
As for the teens showing up for first tracks, I need to ask how is it remotely possible, based on your avatar photo, for you to have TEENS???? You look 16 in this pic!
 

ISki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
... kids in ski school at a young age - well, they're in it because "we say so!"...

Mine had no choice but to go skiing. It's what we did, like taking out the trash. Get dressed, we're going. There was sometimes considerable whining. It didn't matter. We went. Did we have bad days? You bet.

I'm on a lot of the same page as MSL. Especially the "no choice" part. I'll add in that "what my friends are doing" had zero effect on what the parents opinion was.

This was my parents' attitude.

Decades later, I am extremely grateful.

Hang tough.
 

ski chick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We also don't give them a choice, but mine are younger than yours, so I'll get back to you in a coupla years when they are teens. :fear:
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well, as a former kid who would just ski down the hill as fast as possible on the little bumps in southern NY (400' vert), I think the child will grow out of it when there is a need to do so -- ie, the slope gets steeper or longer. Or, if she sees other people while she's on the lift, making pretty turns, etc. I mean, is she out of control when she's doing this? Or able to stop on a dime at the bottom? My recollection from Tuesday night skiing in school is that this was just "normal" behavior" (okay, it's annoying to me now, though!).

The holding hands sounds v. dangerous - may want to warn her that ski patrol or someone could clip her ticket for doing this.

Is there an opportunity to go to a larger hill for a vacation to give them a taste of how others ski? Sounds like the kids may have a case of "big fish in a small pond" syndrome.
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well, as a former kid who would just ski down the hill as fast as possible on the little bumps in southern NY (400' vert), I think the child will grow out of it when there is a need to do so -- ie, the slope gets steeper or longer.

I disagree with this. The kids I coach will actually go into a flying wedge when it gets steeper because they are more comfortable with it than making turns on the steep stuff. I can't tell you how often I yell out to them TURN! and some of them I end up following down the slope yelling every time they should be turning to make them do it. :nono:
 

Sheena

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I disagree with this. The kids I coach will actually go into a flying wedge when it gets steeper because they are more comfortable with it than making turns on the steep stuff. I can't tell you how often I yell out to them TURN! and some of them I end up following down the slope yelling every time they should be turning to make them do it. :nono:

I have nearly been taken out by kids like that! The worst part is, when the kid got to the bottom of the slope his parents were telling him what a fantastic job he did. I am all for encouraging kids, and maybe I am being too judge mental about this, but I really think that kids should not be congratulated for making it down a black diamond slope in an out of control wedge.

That being said, I do agree with Penquenita as well. When I first learned to ski, I learned to make nice turns down the slope, and did make turns the majority of the time. We were not skiing on super big mountain either, only 750 vert. However, I decided to join my middle school ski club, and we would go to this tiny Ohio ski hill, which was about 300 -400 vert. I would spend the whole day straight lining the slopes, just because it was fun. Once I got on more steep terrain, I did not do that anymore. (well, plus that and I got my pass pulled once, and then got in trouble from my mom)
 

Robyn

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My athletes know they will get a talking to if I catch them in a flying wedge bombing the mountain. And last time 2 of them did it they happen to go right by slopewatch and were motioned to slow down. I made them apologize the next time by. Those two NEVER bomb the mountain any more.
 

AnnKH

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'd definitely insist on lessons. No lessons, no skiing. Sure, it's a lot of fun goofing around with your friends, but unless you can ski IN CONTROL, it's a dangerous game that will get them into trouble with the ski patrol at least; seriously injured at worst.

Go ahead and be the bad guy. "My Mom won't let me ski with you guys unless I take stupid lessons!" Do you know the parents of your kids' friends? Maybe you could talk them into doing a set of group lessons.

When I was a kid, our instructor taught us games and tricks - human slalom, sitting on our tails and skiing between his legs, 360s down the hill, beginning ballet moves. Lessons were just part of the ski day.

My kids haven't taken lessons often (I taught them the basics), but they do so pretty willingly - because their Dad and I take lessons once in a while too.
 

num

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Especially the "no choice" part. I'll add in that "what my friends are doing" had zero effect on what the parents opinion was.

My parents used this approach to general parenting. If only they (or we) had been skiers! Sure taught me to bust my *ss academically, and in any other pursuit, which I surely appreciate!

Back2ski, I think the biggest factor here is whether she's in control or not. If she's not, lessons and laying down the law immediately are in order. If she is, and you just wish she'd be more of a technically strong skier, then it's debatable, and depends on what you want for her on the hill.
 

geargrrl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Now THIS is one tough mom! :smile:
Bravo!
As for the teens showing up for first tracks, I need to ask how is it remotely possible, based on your avatar photo, for you to have TEENS???? You look 16 in this pic!

:becky: :love: :love: :love:
LOL, that pic is only about 2 or 3 years old. My boys are currently 18 and 21. And no, I did not start when I was 12.

And yep, they do get up for first tracks. They may sleep in the car all the way there, but they do get up. Parental indoctrination!!:ski2: :ski2: :ski2: :thumbsup:
 

back2ski

Certified Ski Diva
Thanks for all the input everyone. To answer a few questions, yes she is in control - not sure about her friends all the time but they don't run into anyone or fall, so... When she took her second lesson as a 6 yr old, she impressed the instructor almost as much as ds did with his snowboard lesson. Last year she could still carve pretty good if I made her (when no friends were with us) but she said first time out this year she sort of forgot what to do now. But this year we've spent the entire time with her buddies who just go up and down as fast as possible.

I'm not a good skier myself, never had a lesson when I was in ski club in high school though then I was doing diamond runs and could ski backwards as I'd "teach" friends who came along. With being so out of shape and more fragile/less invincible, I'm much more cautious. I'm still working at getting my boots comfortable so being on the hill is pure misery other than the actual trip down. Yes I've been to a bootfitter and probably need to go back. I want to take a lesson myself bc I think it should be easier then I'm making it with the shaped skis. Maybe I'll just have dd 11 go with me for that.

I'm planting the idea of a family ski trip to the UP in dh mind, so my thoughts are I'll make her take another lesson before that would occur since she won't be with friends there and the hills will be much bigger. Pushing for a ski race team isn't in my interests, this is just a family/friends activity similar to going bowling or a movie, albeit much more expensive!

Alpine Valley diamond runs...basically 3 steeper hills side by side. The place in general is very boring to me, but that's where the schools go. Elementary school goes on Sun evenings, I believe middle school goes on Fri. The younger kids have asked to go on the diamond runs, I just have not allowed it. Not worth the risk to them, and definitely not worth the risk to me right now. If her friend's dad wanted to take her (the 8 yr old) I may allow it if she shows me she can still carve turns on the blue. I'm rarely with ds, but I know he's been on the diamond runs with the snowboard. And yes, his instructor did tell him to come back in 4 yrs for a job. It'll probably be a great job for him, too, if schedules are flexible.

Thanks again. :smile:
 

Sheena

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Boston Mills? Did you grow up in my neck of the woods?

It was actually Brandywine (sp).. I think I only skied there 2-3 times. I remember it being really tiny. And my friends all freaked out because I was straight-lining everything. I grew up in one of the tiny little towns near Youngstown, OH
 

Solincia

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It was actually Brandywine (sp).. I think I only skied there 2-3 times. I remember it being really tiny. And my friends all freaked out because I was straight-lining everything. I grew up in one of the tiny little towns near Youngstown, OH

Yep, Boston Mills & Brandywine, 5 minutes apart, owned by the same place. That's where I ski... ha ha...I don't know if you saw my other posts, but I'm back at it after 11 years off. I was in junior high/high school ski club too. My 9 year old niece joined ski club this year, and she's skiing at Boston Mills and loving it! I'm so proud!
Its a nice little place to learn, but I'm glad I've had the opportunity to ski in Vermont and New York before. BF is now learning and having fun! I showed him the website to Mount Snow <where I"ve been but it's a been a long time> and he said "WOW... I want to go there!> HAHA! Holiday Valley is 3 hours, and Peak n' Peak is 2 hours away, Mount Snow is about 7 hours... So we have options for nice little weekend trips.
I grew up in Kent, but live just outside Cleveland now. Yeah, it's tiny--but it's all we have that's close!
 

ritag

Certified Ski Diva
Just a thought- locally the kids use to never take lessons with the school programs (even though they were included and paid for). then the area started requiring green, blue, black stickers to be able to get off of certain lifts, trails. i'm not saying it has worked perfectly, but atleast they get forced into taking one or two lessons a year. if the parents asked for someting like this, maybe it might help.
we did a lot of skiing before our dd was old enough to ski with friends without us. played games all the time. who can make the most turns and follow the leader. once they are with their peers, it is hard to change things. but you could try requiring 2 runs with you where skills are worked on before turning them free.
we u
 

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