MissySki
Angel Diva
Definitely would check first before touching them, should probably buy a 3 guide anyway as well for future use.
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Ken Jones Demo Day @ Loon 12/7/18
- Thread starter MissySki
- Start date
Definitely would check first before touching them, should probably buy a 3 guide anyway as well for future use.
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The disclaimer at the top is what makes me say, "get it tuned or have it measured."
This information is based upon factory published specs or the angles I've measure when prepping new skis. However the angles should always be checked before tuning any skis for the first time.
Oh, you quoted that, too! Anyway, I'm skeptical of factory tunes in general, partly because I now have first-hand experience skiing on skis with consistent tunes vs. those from the factory OR unknown tunes. Restated: I'm spoiled!
This information is based upon factory published specs or the angles I've measure when prepping new skis. However the angles should always be checked before tuning any skis for the first time.
Oh, you quoted that, too! Anyway, I'm skeptical of factory tunes in general, partly because I now have first-hand experience skiing on skis with consistent tunes vs. those from the factory OR unknown tunes. Restated: I'm spoiled!
lisamamot
Angel Diva
You are a lucky girl to have rocking tune access. There are places I trust but we have also had a local shop totally muck up a pair of skis as well.
In terms of Blizzard, I just put a question out on the W2W Blizzard Facebook page and will report back what I hear!
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I really am!!
Yes, report back.
MissySki
Angel Diva
This weekend I got to ski the Sheeva 9 and Camox birdie at Sunday River. Saturday was beautiful groomers, bumps and trees all day, I had an absolute blast on the Sheeva 9s! I initially planned to take out the Camox Birdie as well to see how they are on groomers for making a decision on which ski to bring to Aspen, but I couldn't bring myself to get off of the Sheevas!
On Sunday we had a ton of fresh snow, around 8 inches overnight and then it snowed at least another 8 inches throughout the day so I started on the Camox Birdie. I had a super hard time in the tracked out snow, it was just massive heavy piles and I disappointingly killed my legs really early on. I know this was technique based as I could feel myself getting in and out of the backseat. Even when the snow was untracked, I'd lean too much forward and have my tips dive and feel like I was going to go head over heels forward, then I'd ease off and go too far back and feel like my quads were going to die. I also knew I needed more speed to get through the snow and turn, but any speed freaked me out.. By the time I was really adapting to figuring out where I should be balanced on the skis for the snow my legs were too far gone.
I then took out the Sheevas as well even though my legs were shot. I could ski short sections of trails, but had to rest often. Part of this was fatigue, and part was the fact that I felt the need to reset because the piles were so big and I didn't trust myself to keep going.. Then I brought them to a more beginner blue trail section of the mountain and lapped a few of those trails over and over again. Since they are off a more beginner lift they had been groomed later and therefore had less snow to get through, though still 8+ inches of tracked out snow, and less steepness. This really allowed me to work on technique with less fear and fatigue than the 16 inches of chopped up snow was causing me elsewhere. I'll say it certainly didn't magically make my skiing effortless in the least given how tired my legs were at that point, but I got to the point where I could feel myself out of the backseat and therefore not putting additional strain on the quads for the most part and could ski much longer distances without stopping.
As this was only day 2 without my heel lifts I think this was a great sign because at least I could recoginize myself in the backseat AND correct it whereas before I could never stand up enough to actually correct it. I could obviously feel the room in my boots more in the deep snow than the previous day on groomers without the heel lifts and think this also added to my lack of confidence in these conditions that I always struggle in to some extent.
All of this to say, I've decided to bring the Sheeva 9s to Aspen because I've found them to be soooooo versatile! I can definitely see them becoming my go to ski and I'm really excited to get to become more and more familiar with them. Also I really need a lesson to figure out what about my turns are making 3D snow so hard for me. I've never ever been good in "deep" snow, but I feel like I've reverted from where I even used to be and need to figure out why that is because it's really frustrating!
On Sunday we had a ton of fresh snow, around 8 inches overnight and then it snowed at least another 8 inches throughout the day so I started on the Camox Birdie. I had a super hard time in the tracked out snow, it was just massive heavy piles and I disappointingly killed my legs really early on. I know this was technique based as I could feel myself getting in and out of the backseat. Even when the snow was untracked, I'd lean too much forward and have my tips dive and feel like I was going to go head over heels forward, then I'd ease off and go too far back and feel like my quads were going to die. I also knew I needed more speed to get through the snow and turn, but any speed freaked me out.. By the time I was really adapting to figuring out where I should be balanced on the skis for the snow my legs were too far gone.
I then took out the Sheevas as well even though my legs were shot. I could ski short sections of trails, but had to rest often. Part of this was fatigue, and part was the fact that I felt the need to reset because the piles were so big and I didn't trust myself to keep going.. Then I brought them to a more beginner blue trail section of the mountain and lapped a few of those trails over and over again. Since they are off a more beginner lift they had been groomed later and therefore had less snow to get through, though still 8+ inches of tracked out snow, and less steepness. This really allowed me to work on technique with less fear and fatigue than the 16 inches of chopped up snow was causing me elsewhere. I'll say it certainly didn't magically make my skiing effortless in the least given how tired my legs were at that point, but I got to the point where I could feel myself out of the backseat and therefore not putting additional strain on the quads for the most part and could ski much longer distances without stopping.
As this was only day 2 without my heel lifts I think this was a great sign because at least I could recoginize myself in the backseat AND correct it whereas before I could never stand up enough to actually correct it. I could obviously feel the room in my boots more in the deep snow than the previous day on groomers without the heel lifts and think this also added to my lack of confidence in these conditions that I always struggle in to some extent.
All of this to say, I've decided to bring the Sheeva 9s to Aspen because I've found them to be soooooo versatile! I can definitely see them becoming my go to ski and I'm really excited to get to become more and more familiar with them. Also I really need a lesson to figure out what about my turns are making 3D snow so hard for me. I've never ever been good in "deep" snow, but I feel like I've reverted from where I even used to be and need to figure out why that is because it's really frustrating!
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contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Isn't it fun to start figuring all this stuff out?!
I'm struggling in the same kind of snow, but am getting the hang of it more and more thanks to how many storms we've had this season. For me, it's letting the skis "run" down the hill just a millisecond longer, with just a wee bit of tipping. Voila! They will slice when you do that.
I'm so glad you love those Sheevas! Funny, I think I'm going to sell mine, because I don't care for how they ski in untracked powder! I'm sure it's a balance issue and how I initiate turns in powder, but regardless, untracked is something I can find on many days here even after a storm, and I need my daily drivers to handle it comfortably for me.
As for the extra space from the heel lifts--Skisailor's idea of duct tape on the boot sole is good, or you might go see a fitter and ask about adding foam to the liners in that area. It could come down to being lifted a bit higher in the boot (as she also alluded to) or taking the volume up from the top, which will keep you where you are in relation to the cuff.
One thing I've learned from SO (we bicker about stuff quite a bit, he's very VERY opinionated, as one would expect from someone who has been in the biz full time for 30 years) but at times, I think his opinions don't work for me. Well, one thing he has said over and over is, "if you put padding inside the boot, you need to put it equally on both sides, or it WILL throw you out of alignment/balance inside the boot." So, if you pad around the ankle, pad around both sides. If you pad over the instep, pad over both sides, if you pad the cuff, pad both sides, etc. I am finding he is pretty spot-on with this. So, if you pad the instep area/top of the ankle, make sure it's even across both sides.
It does sound like the heel lifts were causing more issues than fixing. It's nice to have the quads tell us when we are in the back seat, and be able to fix it, vs. being stuck there no matter what--I know that feeling too well!!
I'm struggling in the same kind of snow, but am getting the hang of it more and more thanks to how many storms we've had this season. For me, it's letting the skis "run" down the hill just a millisecond longer, with just a wee bit of tipping. Voila! They will slice when you do that.
I'm so glad you love those Sheevas! Funny, I think I'm going to sell mine, because I don't care for how they ski in untracked powder! I'm sure it's a balance issue and how I initiate turns in powder, but regardless, untracked is something I can find on many days here even after a storm, and I need my daily drivers to handle it comfortably for me.
As for the extra space from the heel lifts--Skisailor's idea of duct tape on the boot sole is good, or you might go see a fitter and ask about adding foam to the liners in that area. It could come down to being lifted a bit higher in the boot (as she also alluded to) or taking the volume up from the top, which will keep you where you are in relation to the cuff.
One thing I've learned from SO (we bicker about stuff quite a bit, he's very VERY opinionated, as one would expect from someone who has been in the biz full time for 30 years) but at times, I think his opinions don't work for me. Well, one thing he has said over and over is, "if you put padding inside the boot, you need to put it equally on both sides, or it WILL throw you out of alignment/balance inside the boot." So, if you pad around the ankle, pad around both sides. If you pad over the instep, pad over both sides, if you pad the cuff, pad both sides, etc. I am finding he is pretty spot-on with this. So, if you pad the instep area/top of the ankle, make sure it's even across both sides.
It does sound like the heel lifts were causing more issues than fixing. It's nice to have the quads tell us when we are in the back seat, and be able to fix it, vs. being stuck there no matter what--I know that feeling too well!!
lisamamot
Angel Diva
Do you have the Sheeva 9 or the Sheeva 10?
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Both. The 10s are a hoot in untracked, the 9s, I can't figure them out. But, the 10s are too short for deep untracked I am finding. So, I've been skiing my Santa Ana 100s (My Sheeva 10s are also for sale.)
The metal in the 9s extends about an inch or more further on both tip and tail than it does in the 10s, which technically makes them a bit stiffer. It's possible the 9s just don't release the tail as easily (that's what it's been feeling like) as I like a ski to let me ski like a dork in powder if necessary.
I even had BF redo the edges on them just to make sure, since he tunes everything before I take them out to ski.
I am actually getting some Volkl Secrets, as I skied those for two days at Targhee in the biggest mixed bag of conditions (except ice/hard pack, but they're Volkls, soo) and they were AWESOME. Even in a foot of fresh, they were an absolute delight. Now, I need to move some skis!
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
@contesstant Are the Sheeva 9's that different from the Volkl Secret? Maybe similar to the Santa Ana 93?
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
None of them ski the same, IMO. They are all very different.
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Interesting. Would be fun to see a comparison - maybe @SnowHot has done one? I'm looking for a ski in the high 80's-low 90 waist. Or maybe you could give us a brief comparison?
I'll be demoing skis for the next couple/few weeks in switzerland. Wonder what they'll have? For sure Stockli....
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Sparky
Angel Diva
@santacruz skier so I’ve demoed the Sheeva 9, the Secret (both with MissySki at Loon!), and the Santa Ana. I didn’t feel the love for the Sheevas the way MissySki and Lisamamot did, they didn’t feel grippy or stable enough for me on the firm snow that day. They reminded me of the Black Pearl which I also don’t like. I did really like the edge hold of the Secret but what I didn’t like about them was that they were loud. I mean they seemed to literally “chatter”, it was weird. Unfortunately they didn’t have the Santa Ana in my size that day but I did demo them at Snowbird over the holidays. After being disappointed by the Alluvit (after really liking them at Loon ), I was really surprised how much I liked the Santa Ana. Despite being late in the day and super cold, the weight and stiffness of them (which is why I avoided them in the past) didn’t bother me at all. I actually let loose in them and had so much fun that I took them back to the top for another run, and this was through hard pack to up to 6 inches of fresh snow and bumps. It wasn’t until after I called it a day and turned them in that I thought maybe I should try the Secret again. But by that time the lift I had been taking was about to close and I was too lazy to hike over to another lift. Too bad I wasn’t able to give it a second chance and in more variable conditions.
So in summary, at least for me, the Santa Ana is in between the Sheeva and the Secret. But this is mainly as far as hardpack performance, playfulness and probably weight. Unfortunately I didn’t get to try all except Santa Ana in soft snow. I seem to prefer damper, more stable skis these days but the Santa Ana also satisfies my offpiste pleasures. I really liked the Stokli Stormrider 85 when I demoed them last spring. But I feel like that’s too “serious” a ski, plus I’m not spending $1k on skis!
Safe travels to Switzerland and have an awesome time!!!
So in summary, at least for me, the Santa Ana is in between the Sheeva and the Secret. But this is mainly as far as hardpack performance, playfulness and probably weight. Unfortunately I didn’t get to try all except Santa Ana in soft snow. I seem to prefer damper, more stable skis these days but the Santa Ana also satisfies my offpiste pleasures. I really liked the Stokli Stormrider 85 when I demoed them last spring. But I feel like that’s too “serious” a ski, plus I’m not spending $1k on skis!
Safe travels to Switzerland and have an awesome time!!!
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Good to know... Guess I need to demo them..
contesstant
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'll have to think about it some more. I haven't skied the SA 93 since last winter, so I'll have to get out on them again.
I think the Sheevas short turn radius makes them very playful--they LOVE to turn.
The Secrets just felt more dialed in to me and where I am with my skiing right now. They are a little more damp and surprisingly VERY good in a foot of powder. The Sheeva 9s have perplexed me in untracked powder. The 10s are a riot in it but mine are just too short. (I spent all of last season on shorter skis to work on skiing SLOWER and work on finesse and confidence.)
Sparky
Angel Diva
Yes I bought them in 161, found a good deal on 2018s. Turn radius @161 is 13.5. I actually have old 2015 BPs, they were my first “real” skis (haha) but I think I outgrew them at 152. I didn’t listen to the shop guy who said 159 would’ve been better for me, but I still had 3 good seasons on them. So then I tried the 2018 in both 152 and 159 and didn’t like either so concluded it wasn’t a length issue. I know they are also different skis than they used to be.
Shoot, @contesstant since you’re saying how good the Secret is in some pow, I’m wishing I would’ve tried it! Do you have Santa Ana with metal? If so, curious to see how you think they compare to the Secret when you take them out!
Shoot, @contesstant since you’re saying how good the Secret is in some pow, I’m wishing I would’ve tried it! Do you have Santa Ana with metal? If so, curious to see how you think they compare to the Secret when you take them out!
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
So I had the Saffron 7's in a 162 .... They were quite rockered and didn't feel too long. Knowing you had the Saffron 7's in the same size, would you say the 161 Santa Anas felt about the same length? Just curious.
Sparky
Angel Diva
Yeah, I think they feel about the same, maybe th SA slightly shorter. Or just that the Saffrons are white so they look longer. Lol. They def feel heavier than the Saffrons. I brought both to the hill the other day thinking I’d switch them out midday to compare, but of course I got lazy and never bothered. Honestly I don’t know that they’re so different enough to have justified buying them, just that I felt I needed a narrower all mountain for the early and late season. 5mm, big deal. Haha. But I figure this will be my daily driver and the Saffron’s will get phased out in another season or two and become my rock skis.
lisamamot
Angel Diva
I have skied...
Volkl Secret 170
Sheeva 9 164 and 172
Santa Ana 93 169
Demoed in firm conditions with areas of soft stuff.
Secret is damp and stable and holds a great edge but I found it boring - I can see how they may shine in chop. Santa Ana 93 does the job with a bit more flair than the Secret likely due to the rocker profile - a bit stiff for my taste and ski short; I expect I would be unhappy on the 177. Sheeva 9 was a blast - even demoing the 164 it was stable at speed, held a solid edge, turned just thinking about it - so zippy and just serious fun; I bought the 172 - they are my daily driver and I am delighted so far. They will be coming to Aspen along with a deeper snow ski (
).
Even though I bought the Sheeva 9, I don’t care for the Black Pearl 88 - have skied the 166 in the 5 years ago version and the current. They are fine but I found them wanting too much forward pressure to get up and go.....overall they were a bit blah to me. I don’t know if I would like the 173 more? I can’t seem to find it to demo nor the Bushwacker 173 (they only brought the 180). Tall girl demo issues, lol.
Volkl Secret 170
Sheeva 9 164 and 172
Santa Ana 93 169
Demoed in firm conditions with areas of soft stuff.
Secret is damp and stable and holds a great edge but I found it boring - I can see how they may shine in chop. Santa Ana 93 does the job with a bit more flair than the Secret likely due to the rocker profile - a bit stiff for my taste and ski short; I expect I would be unhappy on the 177. Sheeva 9 was a blast - even demoing the 164 it was stable at speed, held a solid edge, turned just thinking about it - so zippy and just serious fun; I bought the 172 - they are my daily driver and I am delighted so far. They will be coming to Aspen along with a deeper snow ski (
).Even though I bought the Sheeva 9, I don’t care for the Black Pearl 88 - have skied the 166 in the 5 years ago version and the current. They are fine but I found them wanting too much forward pressure to get up and go.....overall they were a bit blah to me. I don’t know if I would like the 173 more? I can’t seem to find it to demo nor the Bushwacker 173 (they only brought the 180). Tall girl demo issues, lol.
