K2 Burnin Luv for racing?

[skigirl009]

Hi! I'm in high school and I plan to join my high school's ski team this year. I currently own a pair of Atomic SL 9 skis from around 2001. I have done a little bit of racing before, and I am an intermediate/advanced skier. The thing is, I don't feel that my skis grip into the ice as well as they should (I ski in the east.) On race courses, this can really be a problem, as I have had problems just making the turns. Last year I demoed a pair of K2 Burnin Luvs for a recreational ski, but I noticed that they are like night and day compared to my atomics in terms of gripping into the ice. They really carve through the ice so nicely that you would have no clue at all that you are skiing on ice. And because of that, I found myself going much faster. Now, I know that these skis are not considered racing skis, but do you think they would still race well? (I haven't bought these yet.) Also, on my atomics, I did get the edges looked at and the person said they looked fine, but they really don't seem to perform for me. So, I guess I'm basically asking if the K2's would be a good purchase if I intend to race on them. Any other advice would be appreciated too!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Will let volklgirl find this thread and respond in re: the racing aspect. I will chime in with the perception that the BL is hugely popular in the east, I see them everywhere, for this specific reason - ice grip. OTOH, where edges are concerned, you're feeling the "newness" (and it's great, eh?) --- careful maintenance is required (and it's not hard) to retain this feel. Great thread about edge maintenance here (also by vg).

If you are race-serious, you might want to consider a dedicated race ski, though. Atomic really leads the pack in this endeavor -- I think your '01's have just seen better days??

BL's might be slightly too waist-wide for racing, not sure -- newer models have had progressively wider waists as this model has endured/been reinvented over the course of 3+- seasons.

 

[SnowHot]

Oh No!
I just sold a pair of RC's that would be perfect to help you get into racing and take the place of a GS ski.

Having owned some race skis over the years and also having owned the Burnin luv(though not the current model), I'd say the BL will not be a good race ski. I found that it does have a speed limit and will not likely serve you well as a GS ski.

You won't find demo's of GS skis, (or any Race Stock ski for that matter) but you may find a bargain on Ebay or in the gear swap areas on ski sites like this.

I'll check out Epic for you.

 

[SnowHot]

Take a look at these!
https://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=73625

 

[SkiNurse]

Yay...have a fun season Skigirl009!

As much as I love K2s, I don't think any of the women's series at least are great for racing.

Hopefully some of the Diva racers/coaches will give you some input here.

 

[volklgirl]

The SL 9 is a slalom race ski and should be appropriate for racing. That said, judging from your description, it's possible that 1) your edges need a good hand race tune and/or 2) that ski is just too stiff for you.

1) Even if your edges "look good", your base bevel angle will increase over time as the skis wear, especially if the base edge is getting "adjusted" at each tune. Have a race tech set your base edge to .5 or 1 deg and don't let anyone touch it again until you truly need a base grind. Have the tech also set your side bevel to 3 deg with no detuning of the tip and tail. The 3 deg side edge should grip the ice like cat claws but will need fairly regular attention if you're racing in the east.

2) If the ski is too stiff for you, the section of edge directly under you doesn't contact the snow so it will feel like there's no edge grip. This will allow your skis to skid out from under you.

If you can find an on-hill race oriented shop that has race demos, that would be your best bet (or come to Michigan and I'll take you to the Tech Center at Nub's Nob). If not, look into the Volkl Racetiger or older P60 SL. The World Cup/Race Room versions of those skis are amazingly soft and superb for any woman or other light weight, even for non-race applications. Even the GS is buttery soft and smooth. I've done tons of race demos and find the Atomics to be quite a bit stiffer and more demanding. Another option would be the Dynastar race skis - again, super soft, but much lighter and livelier than the Volkls. Atomic did have the TL (I think) version of their race skis, designed for lighter weight skiers, but I haven't shopped for race skis in a couple of years, so I don't know what their current offerings are. Depending on your height/weight, junior race skis are always an option too.

Oh, and welcome to the madness!!!!

 

[skigirl009]

Thanks for the great advice! I have just one more question: I'm about 5'4.5'' and weigh about 133 lbs, which size ski would you recommend if I do buy a new pair?

 

[Jilly]

Atomic has the LT - long turn, and ST - short turn, models which are the "citizen racing" models. I agree with the above this K2 is not a race ski and if you are racing you need race type stock. Like VG I think either the skis are done (2002!) or they are too stiff for you. I've taken the LT and ST out on demo night, but we request race type stuff for the ski team. Rossi did the same for us too with the 9S and 9X. Check with your local store or hill/resort/mountain and your coach!

Where are you racing - east or west?

 

[SnowHot]

Thanks for the great advice! I have just one more question: I'm about 5'4.5'' and weigh about 133 lbs, which size ski would you recommend if I do buy a new pair?

for a GS? 170 ish, perhaps a tad longer.

 

[volklgirl]

Another thing I forgot to mention regarding edging:

Racing and free skiing are 2 VERY different things. Even if you are a carving maniac while free skiing, you'll find that you'll be late at the gates and slipping and sliding all over the place while racing until you've had tons of training and experience. Making the transition from turning when you darn-well please to turning NOW is a difficult process and you'll find that everything you think you know about skiing is wrong! Even exceptional racers occasionally lean into the gate and have their edges slip out from under them!

As far as appropriate length.....you'll need to check with your coach first. Some ski teams abide by the junior FIS standards which has length requirements based on your racing category. If not, it depends on whether you'll be skiing mostly SL or GS and if you'll have more than 1 pair of skis. For SL skis; 140-150 would be appropriate, for GS skis; 165-175, or for do-it-alls; 155-170. All of this depends on the make/model of the ski, too, of course. Some short SL skis get really weird at GS speeds, while some longer GS skis do reasonably well on the more open slalom courses. Your best bet for a 1-ski race quiver is a shorter "citizen" race or skiercross ski (Volkl RC, Atomic SX, etc). These are skis with SL sidecuts but GS constructions so they'll handle both short turns and high speeds with mostly equal aplomb.

 

[Jillian]

I have been reading this thread with interest as my daughter also races on her school team (Aus Interschools, not FIS). She competed this season just past on Atomic 150 junior race skis, but that is the upper limit of junior race skis available as rentals. Your suggestion of a 1-ski race quiver grabbed my attention as I will be renting for her from the more extensive adult range next season.Do most skiercross skis handle GS well? Are any women specific ?
Also her feet are now big enough for adult boots, would race boots be too stiff for a 14 yr old?The thread on Dalbello Krypton Storms sounded perfect for her, but would they be too soft for racing even for her at 157cm & 48kg ?
The generosity of information on this site is greatly appreciated!

 

[volklgirl]

Your suggestion of a 1-ski race quiver grabbed my attention as I will be renting for her from the more extensive adult range next season.Do most skiercross skis handle GS well? Are any women specific ?

The citizen race (aka "cheater") and skiercross skis are designed for the high speeds, sharper turns, and intense action of actual Skier Cross races and Nastar/league racing. These skis will have either a true race ski construction or a very beefed up torsion box/cap construction for stability at high speeds and a turn radius in the 16-20 meter range for more maneuverability. Currently, I'm not aware of any that are marketed for women specifically.

Also her feet are now big enough for adult boots, would race boots be too stiff for a 14 yr old?

Not at all! All the companies that make race boots make them in softer flex versions for juniors and women. If her feet are long and narrow, the Nordica Dobermann in the 80-90 range or the Lange WC jr or Team may be a good choice. As always, though, find a GREAT bootfitter and trust him/her!

If you haven't yet; check the Gearipedia for more specific info on ski and boot construction and boot fitting.

 

[Jillian]

Thank you Volklgirl, an enormous help!
As she also competes in snowboardGS and boardercross I am aware of the amount of equipment to be packed in the car/ carried on oversnow. So if I only get her race boots (she got snowboard boots this season) will she find free-skiing unpleasant?
As every hundredth of a second seems to be life altering, should we opt for a softer ski in a longer length for a smaller, lighter skier? The courses are often hardpacked to icy, one in particular is bulletproof.

 

[volklgirl]

So if I only get her race boots (she got snowboard boots this season) will she find free-skiing unpleasant?

Appropriate boots that are properly fit will be fine for both racing and free skiing.

As every hundredth of a second seems to be life altering, should we opt for a softer ski in a longer length for a smaller, lighter skier? The courses are often hardpacked to icy, one in particular is bulletproof.

JMHO!! The softer, longer ski will bounce or smear out of the turn on those icy courses (exactly why I'd NOT recommend the BL for racing), so I'd go for stiffer but shorter. Really, if there's any way for her to demo, that's the way to go to know for sure.

When I did my last race ski demo, I took them all in the Nastar course as well as free skiing them. There were very noticable differences in times between skis with the exception of the Atomic GS11 and the Volkl P60. While the times for both of these were almost identical and by far faster than any others, I found the Volkl easier to begin the carver higher in the turn and keep the carve throughout the turn. Without the demo, I would never have known any of this.

 

[Jillian]

Thank you again Volklgirl!
When I think about it, given our relatively milder temperatures, our "icy" courses are probably not as hard as those in the northern hemisphere. If the Atomics tend to be stiffer then will try those, the Volkls sound like they would be nicer if they fitted the conditions. Such a shame that demos are not available!!
So glad to have your input - learning with every post!!